These are the undisputed best military leaders in history, in order:

These are the undisputed best military leaders in history, in order:
1. Temujin
2. Alexander the Great
3. Yi Sun-sin
4. Subutai
5. Scipio
6. Julius Caesar
7. Napoleon
8. Timur
9. George Castriot Skanderbeg
10. Belisarius
11. Gustavus Adolphus
12. Attila the Hun
13. Charlemagne
14. Tran Hung Dao
15. Saladin
16. “Iron Duke” Arthur Wellesley
17. Charles XII of Sweden
18. Alexander Nevsky
19. Robert E. Lee
20. Oliver Cromwell

> no Rommel

>no Rommel or von Manstein

Shit list.

>no Alfred von Schlieffen

>no Žižka
>no Rommel

>no Hitler

>no Francis Drake

> Forgetting Goering

>omitting a genius like Guderian

This is how I know you're shitposting

>No Hannibal

I strongly object to omitting Pompey. He finished the Seleucids, the Armenians and Pontus.

In the meanwhile, remove some of the meme commanders such as Skanderbeg and Belisarius.

404 Guderian not found

>no Aleksandr Suvorov

They are not meme commanders, they make Pompey look weak in comparison.
Meme commanders who are overhyped
Scipio is on the list, he learned from Hannibal and subsequently destroyed him. No need to include Hannibal

I would have included him but I capped the list at 20, what order would you have them in?

Scipio was great but he never pulled off a Cannae. And he never marched elephants through the Alps.

>No Hannibal
>No Epirus
>No Pompey
>No Sulla
>Putting Scipio on the list, let alone above Caesar
>Putting Attila on the list
>Alexander isn't first

This list is shit but I expect no less from a frogposter.

>Pompey
Not so fast!

I would honestly bump Scipio or Attila in favor of Guderian or Rommel.

Particularly Attila because we have relatively little documentation.

>he learned from Hannibal and subsequently destroyed him

He had one clever maneuver in a battle that was already decided due to a political figure that Scipio never dealt with, Masinissa, defecting. It's safe to say just showing up and not shitting the bed would have been enough to win at Zama.

Maybe this is just Dan Carlin memehistory, but Punic Nightmares made the entire Barcid clan look like absolute tossers.

I would not include Rommel, maybe Guderian at number 20 if Attila is omitted but even then why remove him. Attila's legacy and feats are greater than either of theirs

>No Agrippa

>No Khalid Ibn Walid
Is this because he was muslim?

If anything I should have put Yi Sun-sin first, but I put them in that order according to their impact on modern history as they are all tied in terms of military accomplishment and their skill

Temujin and Alexander should swap places. In fact, Temujin shouldn't be on the fucking list. Temujin conquered the fucking steppes. He never conquered anything worthwhile. His sons did the real work.

Attila defeated an empire that was already fucked, and we barely know the military details of his campaigns.

Also, I'd be sorely tempted to include Vo Nyugen Giap.

Yeah Dan Carlin has a very unique talent at portraying half the story in a very slanted manner. Also;

>Barcid clan

Don't entice that shitposter.

Not at all, Saladin is present

Erich von Manstein pls

> omitting Rommel

George Armstrong Custer,
Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse.

> he didn't include Luigi Cadorna

Khalid > Saladin

you forgot maurice gamelin

...

>DUDE FORGET THAT FUCK HUGE GERMAN ARMY HEADING FOR THE LINE, LETS TAKE ROME BEFORE THE ANGLOS

and that's whole Mark Clark single-handedly turned the Italian Campaign into a slogging fest nightmare fuel.

This slippery Fat Canadian Bastard is basically the best general the Entente produced, and should have been placed in charge of the British war effort.

Based on some of the feedback, I have decided to update and expand the list:
1. Temujin/Subutai
2. Alexander the Great
3. Yi Sun-sin
4. Scipio
5. Hannibal
6. Julius Caesar
7. Napoleon
8. Timur
9. George Castriot Skanderbeg
10. Pompey
11. Gustavus Adolphus
12. Agrippa
13. Charlemagne
14. Tran Hung Dao
15. Saladin
16. “Iron Duke” Arthur Wellesley
17. Charles XII of Sweden
18. Alexander Nevsky
19. Robert E. Lee
20. Oliver Cromwell
21. Belisarius
22. Cyrus the Great
23. William the Conqueror
24. Guderian
25. Leonidas

> no Rommel
> no Narses
> no Stilicho

Can't include everyone who won a battle, and Rommel is very overrated.

>No Gaius Marius
Basically created the Roman war machine at its height.

>Adding Robert E. Meme
Basically shat the bed at Gettysburg, was only a good officer because for 90% of the war he was fighting against retarded northern Generals. The moment people like Sherman and Grant took control of the Union Army it was a fighting retreat right up until Appomattox.

>Leonidas
Died in the only battle he was ever recorded at, didn't even decisively defeat the Persians, let his grandsons hide behind Athenian togas while they finished the job.

>No Lenin
Took an army of ragtag partisans and deserters and turned them into a fighting force that not only established the USSR but also defeated the combined armies of the West who tried to destroy his new nation in its infancy.

>Hans Guderimeme
Lost the chance of ending the Eastern Front right outside Moscow because he got cold. A total born loser and meme.

>no horatio nelson

His best military accomplishment is beating some migrating germans. He's most famous for getting cucked by Sulla. Marius a shit.

>Robert E. Lee
>not based Grant, Sherman, Sheridan
Buttblasted democrat detected

>no Ranjit Singh

He's easily top 10

>M-MUH SEVEN CONSULSHIPS!

>sherman
Meh.

Glad to actually see Admiral Yi on one of these lists instead of that autist Nelson.

>putting rommel and manstein over moltke

>Missing Suvorov
Come on.
The man fought almost every relevant power of the 18th century and never lost a battle. He literally propped Russia to relevance despite the internal problems of the period.

Dude, don't send the panzers against the British retreating lmao

That move alone was enough to disqualify Hitler from this list

He was hoping for a truce with the British, and it was a real possibility at that moment

This, and Prine Eugene as well

>proceed to be reket by flirty polish peasants

There's a reason why the Shenandoah Valley Campaign is still studied by military historians to this day and not Sherman's march to the sea.

lol
I would maybe sub out Marius for Leonidas, but I don't understand the hate for Lee. As pointed out, he is still studied to this day.

No he defeated a force of elephants twice the size of the force that went through the alps, and many of the elephants died on the trip.

I'd replace Guderian with Model

>not Aetius

Shit list

Still no Khalid, still no Sherman who was a much better than anyone barring Forrest, who also deserves to be on that list more than Robert E Lee. Also, no El Cid, wtf man?!

Also, both Themistockles and Miltiades deserve to be on that list more than Leonidas as does Epaminondas.

No Aurelian. Literally the best Roman general.

>no Helmuth von Moltke
>Wellesley at all
>Gustavus Adolphus not even in the top ten
>assholes like Timur but no Prince Eugene of Savoy at all
Good job, OP I'm plenty triggered.

make your own list fagot

>includes Aleskandr Nevsky
>doesn't include Aleksandr Suvorov
you picked the wrong russian

you got my interest in something I never read about, can you give me a quick rundown?

>comparing a faggot like Eugene to the second coming of Genghis

kys, eurocentric mong

Lets see your lists then, I guarantee it won't be better than mine

this
Suvorov was well known and well respected by everyone he faced as an adversary (gained respect from, and was specifically named by Napoleon in his memoirs, among many others in Suvorov's time) and by everyone who was his colleague. He took an army that was still a sort of an unfinished pet project of toy soldiers made by Peter the Great and turned one of the most irrelevant-to-the-west armies into a near equal regarding performance despite having a fundamentally shitty hand dealt to him relative to what western commanders had command over initially. He had an exceptionally good relationship with all of his soldiers (just think about how many soldiers of other leaders and armies explicitly remembered their leaders as not only good military commanders, but also as good human beings in general, at an era when most soldiers were generally thought of as simple cannon fodder by many leaders). His protege Kutuzov turned out to be fairly decent too.

Also: Never lost a battle meme

One of the most epic simple quotes: Пyля дypa, штык мoлoдeц! (Rough translation: Bullet is a fool, bayonet is a good fellow!)

one of the few good people in Russian legacy and history

Napoleon thought that it was a shame that he never had the chance to face Suvorov, and likewise vice versa

>being this upset
Your impotent rage is amusing. Timur was shit.

I don't really have a problem with your list for the most part as I don't know too well about half of those people's exploits, but leaving out Suvorov is criminal as per this dude's post

What is ilipa

>Temujin
stopped reading there. it's shit

1. Alexander the Great
2. Genghis Khan.
3. Timur.
4. Epaminondas
5. Khalid ibn Whalid
6. Sherman.
7. Gustavus Adolphus
8. Pyrrhus of Epirus
9 and 10: Hannibal/Scipio Africanus.

Epaminondas, Sherman, and Gustav are there due to how they influenced warfare. Top three can be varied, but those there are there due to their obvious successes. Khalid is there for the same thing, and Pyrrhus is there due to his influence upon classical warfare through his writings which are now unfortunately lost to us.

Also, I'd like to add that the problem with my list is that I don't actually know as much as I would like to about East Asian, so there may very well be generals who deserve to be on the list, but I don't know enough about them to comment.

>Charles XII of Sweden
>Not the father of the Tercios
Dude, he lost the only war he fought. At least put on the list the man he ripped off

Yi was an admiral, so he should be ranked aganist other admirals.

Naval Ranking
1. Nelson
2. Yi Sun-sin
3. Afonso de Albuquerque
4. Andrea Doria
5. Yamamoto
6. Themistocles
7. Togo
8. Nimitz
9. Raymond Spruance
10. Don Juan
11. Bull Halsey

Mark Clark had an ego the size of Texas and a hatred for the English. The German Command decided to place the 9th Army in the region around Rome behind the Hitler/Gustav Line.

The withdrawal was extremely vulnerable to an attack by Clark, but Clark decided to focus his effort on Rome, which the Germans had declared an open city. Not wanting the closer Breitish and Commonwealth forces to get to it, Clark rushed into the city and got a few days of good publicity before being overshadowed by the Normandy landings.

Doing so he let the entire 9th Army escape behind the Gustav line and these unscathed reinforcements made the Allied grunt's life a living hell.

It's not eve the worse thing he did. Once he sent companies of his own men across a raging river , into German MG fire and got hundreds killed. Even the Germans were wondering what in the fuck this guy was doing.

I could endorse this list though I would personally give Scipio's spot to Caesar.

Halsey being on the list at all is a joke, but Spruance should be considerably higher.

Yamamoto is a meme admiral. Much like Robert E Lee, he gets put on a pedestal, and any failings are shifted to their subordinates like Nagumo and Longstreet for not doing what they were "supposed to do". However, when you look into the battle orders given, both Lee and Yamamoto gave poorly worded orders that did not communicate the imperative of a situation to their subordinates who could not see "the big picture" due to their own perspective.

Andrea Doria is greatly overrated as well. Keep in mind he lost against the Ottomans, which would secure Ottoman dominance over the med until Lepanto.

Missing Von Moltke is a big one. He established the modern system of a general staff, which would allow generals to oversee operations rather than battles, greatly increasing the scale of warfare. He also pioneered modern mobilization.

Here's my attempt at a meme list.

1-5 (all flexible order)
Temujin/Subutai tag team
Alexander
Napoleon
Timur
Khalid ibn al-Walid

5-10
Von Moltke
Fredrick the Great
Hannibal
Gustavus Adolphus
Gonzalo de Córdoba

10-15
Suvarov
Sherman/Grant tag team
Belisarius
Hannibal
Eisenhower

15-20

Germanicus
Wellesley
Maurice of Nassau
Zhukov
Alp Arslan

>Eisenhower
>Napoleon
>Dixieposting
>Hannibal on there twice

No idea how the second hannibal got past me, he's in the 5-10 bracket.

I don't see how criticizing Lee is dixieposting. I'm drawing a comparison between dixiefags who put Lee on a pedestal at the cost of his subordinates to weebs who put Yamamoto on a pedestal at the cost of his subordinates.

Eisenhower is on there because I think he's done the best job of handling the political side of war under a civilian controlled military. Continuation of politics by other means an all that. Plenty of campaigns and battles have been lost because of generals unable to manage conflicts between their subordinates and wrangle them into at least pointing their guns in the same direction. I think Ike deserves plenty of recognition considering the kind of egos he had to handle.

Honorable Mention List

Hernan Cortez
Alcibiades
Tso Tsung-t'ang (General Tso)
Francisco de Almeida

> Alcibiades

Wasn't he a big fat loser?

> Omitting Hannibal from the A-team

> No Rommel

Where the fuck is de Ruyter?