Yo /runningfags/

Yo /runningfags/,

Trying to be able to run a half marathon by this fall and ran into an interview were a retired runner came up with this training plan:
You run at a pace that keeps your BPM at 180-your age. So 157 for me. Apparently this is supposed to train your body to use Fat as a fuel source instead of Glucose.
Is there any kind of merit behind this? Or is this just some bro-science shit?

Other urls found in this thread:

briancalkins.com/HeartRate.htm
fellrnr.com/wiki/GPS_Accuracy
youtu.be/zUPadKgtYHw?t=49s
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

It's real, its' called running at the lactate threshold.

it's real yeah

generally running is about BPM and time, speed is irrelevant. Steady BPM, no breaks, no pauses, for a set amount of time (30-40 minutes I'd recommend if you're starting)

fat is an excellent energy source, whereas sugars aren't as good. fructose is better than glucose IMO, but fat tops the charts. when you do based cardio, and you burn fat, your energy levels stay a lot more consistent than through other methods. this is legit stuff.

If you're starting to run just go for time and heart rate bro. The first steps are always the hardest but you can do it. With practice you get better. I started running awhile back and I've already seen huge progress. Survived basically killing myself 2 miles last week. This week actually felt like I was fine. Each step made me feel skinnier. Treadmill says I burned almost 300 calories so yeah. Great way to cut and keep heart rate up for hours which means you burn even more calories

Thanks y'all!
I'm definitely going to do some more research on it. I'll fucking destroy a half marathon by Fall.

Yup 157 puts you at aerobic which is where you improve general endurance.

Use this link and pic related.
briancalkins.com/HeartRate.htm

Threshold workouts should be done in sets of 3-4' with enough rest to get back to ~120 bpm, approx 3 min rest, 3-6 sets per workout.

Hard aerobic should be done in sets of 8-10', same rest as before, 2-3 sets a workout.

Easy aerobic should be done in sets of 30'-60', 1-2 sets per workout.

Threshold sets should have you gasping for air, or 'seeing god' as I like to call it. Hard aerobic should be breathing heavily, easy aerobic is converstional pace.

This is legit. Keeping your heart rate low promotes aerobic conditioning. Working promotes anaerobic. Anaerobic creates lactic acid which makes your muscles burn and has to be broken down and exhaled as co2. Aerobic is much more efficient and will basically work as long as you have fuel (glycogen) and oxygen. If you've seen an ironman triathlete hit the wall, that's their body running out of glycogen and their muscles cease to function.

Alternative method:
Run at 70% of the range between your resting and max heart rate. It will probably be similar enough though.

Working hard*

Its the Maffetone Method, named after Phil Maffetone. He trained Mark Allen to winning Kona Ironman with it.

What do you anons recommend for keeping track of your heart rates?

A Garmin 630 with an included heart strap. It's expensive >$400, but it is worth every penny if you're serious about running. I've had it for a half a month, and it has already paid off.

It also gives you an exact estimate of your lactate threshold using heartrate variability. Mine is at a target heartrate of 181 BPM.

Sounds pretty badass, but as a poor uni student no dice for me.
The lactate threshold thing in particular sounds cool.

You have no idea what you're talking about

...

FUCKING BS

Why do you think you have no energy when doing keto?

Running 'on fat' doesnt exist retards, you just burn all your glucose and go in ketosis

>Running 'on fat' doesnt exist retards
Yes it does. The human body can store enough glycogen to run roughly 30km and after that it starts to burn fat for energy

memory

Bullshit. Sugar (in any form) gets converted into energy your muscles can use much faster and easier than fat. So if you're "running on fat" you're bound to be very very slow.

To elaborate, you don't just switch from one form of energy production to the other. In pretty much any endurance event you use up both fat and glycogen. And you'll definitely feel the point at which the glycogen is gone.

To the OP: Heart rate is highly individual, so a formula that tells you the correct heart rate based solely on your age is bound to be wrong. It can still be useful, though.
What people usually recommend is to run at X% of your max. heart rate for long runs, and another percentage for faster runs.

If you want a slightly cheaper option, the Garmin 610 with heart rate monitor is currently selling pretty cheap in lots of places. It's the top end model from the last range Garmin put out there; it's fairly old and so has less features, but the most important ones are there. Also, it has a more accurate GPS than pretty much all newer models:

fellrnr.com/wiki/GPS_Accuracy

I got one a couple of months ago and it's the best GPS watch I've ever owned, well worth it if your getting serious about your running

Now my knowledge of this is a little rusty, but you can and often do run off lipids. Eventually they break down into the same chemical pathway that CHOs follow (krebs cycle) but your body can totally run off fat. It does require more oxygen and time to do so than burning carbs, which means fat can't be used to supply energy for super high intensity activities. The reason has a target zone for 'fat burning' is basically because that's roughly the highest intensity you can train at while still getting enough oxygen into the body for fat metabolism (or something like that).
Muscle glycogen stores run out after like an hour and you need to use fat to supply you for the rest of your event. This is why distance runners often feel tired like an hour into the marathon as their bodies switch from glucose to fat for fuel. This is referred to as 'hitting the wall'

^all from my really bad memory so could be wrong. But that's roughly correct anyway

No you faggot it's called running bellow that. Lactate threshold is the pace you can sustain for about an hour and is a comfortably hard pace.

180-age is a rough estimate for you conversational pace and general easy aerobic pace that you should make most of your runs.

Yes it's good advice but keep in mind heart rate is affected by many things like temp and humidity and stress. Find the pace that you can run while talking without gasping for air and run at that for most of your time. Do your long run at that pace.

180-age was made popular by Phil Maffetone though I don't agree 100% with the idea, just like 220-age is not a good estimate for your maximum heart rate

What's your goal for the half? Do you have a time in mind or just want to finish?

I'm not really an expert either, but yes, you can run off fat -- like I said above, very very slowly.
I forgot where I read it, but I think the energy per unit time for fat burning was around 1/5th of what you get from glycogen. At any rate, not a lot.

I expect the reason for the fat burning zone in the chart is not so much that you burn fat exclusively there, but that either the relative importance of the fat cycle is high there, or that it's at an intensity level that allows you to keep up the exercise long enough for fat burning to matter.

My background is more cycling than running, so training tends to be a lot longer than for runners. A 4, 5, or 6 hour ride on a weekend is not terribly unusual. Runners don't do that, so refuelling is not an issue for them.

On the bike, people tend to eat and drink sugary stuff to replenish the glycogen stores. You still use the stuff faster than you build it up, but you can still make it last a lot longer.

You will run out of carbs first before you run out of lipids. That's when people bonk and hit walls and muscles just cramp up and you can't move with all the will power in the world.

During aerobic running your body uses both carbs and fat to power itself. The ration balance leans towards fat the more you run. Body needs carbs to break down fat though so if you run out of carbs it won't be able to move anymore. See video related

youtu.be/zUPadKgtYHw?t=49s

This is what happenes when carbs run out completely

Fat burning zone is a semi-myth. You need to run slower to run longer. Running longer is the key, like 1 hour minimum

This is true. Anyone who disagrees is uneducated.

>Apparently this is supposed to train your body to use Fat as a fuel source instead of Glucose.
Your body only uses fat as a fuel if you're out of glucose so that runner is a fucking retard

You can follow a low-carb high-fat diet to create more enzymes in your body that can break down fat thus making it easier to perform when you have no glucose left but even then you get slightly more performance using glucose.

Do you want to build endurance or lose fat? if you want to build endurance his calculation is fine, if you want to lose fat, get diet under control first

Wtf is wrong with your heart if it is at 180-age for a conversational pace? That is the break between aerobic and anaerobic. 80%ish of max hr.

not that guy but do you explain I can sustain an anaerobic pace for more than an hour?

That formula doesn't work for me.
180-24 = 156 and I ran my last 15k at around 170 bpm in more than an hour

Are you seriosly asking why your race pace is faster than a tempo run?

~160 is conversational pace for me. I'll breathe heavily but will still be able to talk.

that's right at threshold pace, the heart rate numbers vary depending on the calculator you use.

this is conjecture on my part, but I think running allows for a higher sustained heart rate than more muscle specific sports (rowing, biking). in these sports, the lactate buildup in a particular muscle (e.g. quads) will disable/discourage the athlete from pushing further, before they reach their body's maximum ability to clear lactate (corresponding with threshold bpm).

in running, lactate buildup is less localized, and it is easier to approach maximum lactate clearing ability (threshold bpm) without blowing out a specific muscle. when rowers use biking for cardio, they are told to reduce their steady state bpm by 10, and increase volume by 50%. basically, it's easier to sustain a run at threshold than bike at threshold.

>Apparently this is supposed to train your body to use Fat as a fuel source instead of Glucose.
Only after 30 minutes to an hour. Then your glycogen is pretty much spent, so you go to your fat.

It's not bro science, it's exercise science.

This is true max heart rate varies. I max out at 180 now but when I started this formula would have worked for me. You might be better using percieved maximum effort or a talk test. You can say one or two words at a tempo place but not a full sentence.