Was the red army literally retarded?

übertards

if the red army was retarded, what does that make the wehrmacht?

So how good was the Red Army after Soviets recovered from the purges?

>No they didn't.
Nigga please... This probably was the best strategy at their disposal given their advantage in numbers as opposed to tactics and troop quality and it worked, so in a way it was a relatively sound strategy from a purely operational standpoint at the time despite its heartless and dehumanizing nature, but I don't see how you could reasonably deny it.

>advantage in numbers
They never really had it until near the end of the war

The purges only effected the upper levels of command and a lot of them got "rehabilitated" and released within 6 months of the German invasion

Even by the end of the war, it wasn't huge. Frontwide manpower totals on the Eastern Front on the eve of Barbarossa were about 5.6 million to the Soviets compared to 3.1 million to the Germans, which is about 1.8:1

Not him, but they did more than that. Post-Purges, even the unpurged officers realized the totality of Stalin's control over the military should he wish to exercise it; you didn't have much in the way of institutional thinking, and you had a lot of people doing tactically/operationally suicidal things in order to conform to Soviet political doctrine.

That subordination probably hurt them worse than the loss of experienced personnel.

Bagration, not Barbarossa* Derp.

Yes they were mindless retarded apes who only fought in the war in fear of being sent to the Gulags. The Red Army would send out the weak retarded ones on the front and if they were seen retreating or taking cover, they would be shot by the higher ups with heavy artillery who oversaw the battlefield behind them.

During the initial stages of Barbarossa the Axis had k/d ratio of 15:1.

No, they had a material destruction ratio that high and captured a shitload in encirclements (a lot of whom later died, but we shouldn't count that as a combat casualty)

Maybe not in terms of actual manpower on the battlefield (although this was often the case), but their ability to quickly rebuild fresh divisions and industrial output overwhelmed the Germans eventually.

Red Army was only shit during the first weeks of Barbarossa.
After that they got their shit together and did their best and succeeded in containing the Axis threat at Moscow, Leningrad and Donbass.
They only lost the initiative because of Stalin's autism in launching an counteroffensive across the entire front which spent their reserves and resources and left them vulnerable for Axis Summer 1942 offensive so they had to damage control at that, but even then, they contained Axis and made them bleed for every inch taken in Stalingrad and Caucasus. From 1943 onwards, it was arguably the most powerful land army in the world at the time, with the Western Allies having the edge in Air and Naval superiority.

Even if isn't a meme it doesn't matter, if you can defeat your enemy using your overwhelming numbers than you definitely should. This is fucking reality, not a game, if you don't want to get zerg rushed than you shouldn't attack a country with a population exponentially larger than yours.

>Zerg rush
Do people even know what that is anymore? Because it'd be the Germans doing the early game rush, not the country getting it's arse kicked for months

yes

During the entire Prague Offensive Soviet "key/dee" was 1 Soviet per 18 Huns

nice Kraut at Moscow you got there

Picture is from finland. Finns invented the frozen commie scarecrow.

now did the Finns do that out of pure unadulterated hatred or are these just pictures of corpses appearing after the ice started to melt?

why do "frozen commie" always wear Hunnic or Finnish uniforms?

Wehrmafags criticizing the red army is like American's criticizing the Viet Cong

it's more an insult to themselves since they got their ass kicked

That's just German autism
>Use outdated industrial production mode because muh glorious German craft
>get outproduced by a whole fucking ton by a barely industrialized nation that produced much less coal and steel

[BRAINLET ALERT]

But that offensive was literally in the last week of war against an already nearly defeated Axis. Impressive yes but not nearly as much as the early war victories.

Except that without Western Allied material assistance, the Soviet would have been out of the fight within a couple years. For the Soviets, at best a purely Axis vs Soviet war would have seen a standstill. It still amazes me that people genuinely believe that the Soviets could have defeated Axis without Anglo-American assistance.

No, they just had a lot of human resources to throw at any given problem with little regard for casualties. Also their officer corps was depleted of a lot of its talent thanks to Stalin's purges back in the 30s.

>It still amazes me that people genuinely believe that the Soviets could have defeated Axis without Anglo-American assistance.

Eh, the Germans had no hope of holding all that territory, I mean, they got stomped by a bunch of farmer gorillas in "tiny" yugoslavia.

Get a load of this commieboo

It was done to spook Red Army dudes

They had the numerical advantage from early 1942 till the end of the war you retard. That said, the Germans were able to create local superiority in their numbers thanks to poor Soviet communications and superior German mobility, command structure, tactics (auftragstaktik).

When the Soviets and Germans were fighting with neither side having a local superiority in numbers, the casualties were very high on both sides (not including prisoners taken who died in captivity), and the kill/death ratio close to one.

God dammit, I'm sick of Wehraboos (muh 15:1 K/D ratio) but those who correct them usually underestimate the Wehrmacht's performance. Find me the Red Army's equivalent of the Third Battle of Karkov.

>did the Finns do that out of pure unadulterated hatred
Finns gonna Finn, no point in trying to comprehend anything they do.

ITT Americans don't understand Russian anything and regurgitate Nazi propaganda

what did the soviet soldiers think when they defeated germany then went home and were sent to the gulags

Nikita Khrushchev wrote in his memoirs:
''I would like to express my candid opinion about Stalin’s views on whether the Red Army and the Soviet Union could have coped with Nazi Germany and survived the war without aid from the United States and Britain. First, I would like to tell about some remarks Stalin made and repeated several times when we were "discussing freely" among ourselves. He stated bluntly that if the United States had not helped us, we would not have won the war. If we had had to fight Nazi Germany one on one, we could not have stood up against Germany's pressure, and we would have lost the war. No one ever discussed this subject officially, and I don't think Stalin left any written evidence of his opinion, but I will state here that several times in conversations with me he noted that these were the actual circumstances. He never made a special point of holding a conversation on the subject, but when we were engaged in some kind of relaxed conversation, going over international questions of the past and present, and when we would return to the subject of the path we had traveled during the war, that is what he said. When I listened to his remarks, I was fully in agreement with him, and today I am even more so.''

They were probably a fascist-trotskyite anyway and deserved it
t. Stalin

Probably the same thing when the German soldier's went home and saw all their women raped.

>Khr*schev
not a reliable source

I spent a bit of time to see if anyone could come up with direct practical explanations as to why the Red Army suffered higher casualties apart from vague statements like "muh not trained well" or unfounded claims of " muh human waves " , did they suffer higher casualties because their soldiers literally ran continously at machine gun posts? Probably not.

>Germans were able to create local superiority in their numbers thanks to poor Soviet communications and superior German mobility, command structure, tactics (auftragstaktik).

This is one of the conclusions I've come to as a possible reason, I've read that the germans had very thorough reconnaissance and communication and i guess could probably catch out soviet forces in bad positions at the start of the war.

The other reason i thought could be possible is that the germans caught the soviets in a lot of encirclements at the start, and it seems that an encircled fighting force cut off from supplies is basically cannon fodder, which would count towards the higher k:d ratio.

Also almost air supremacy at the start of the war probably helped and I think a lot of the disparity occured at the start of the war.

What do you think of my analysis Veeky Forums? Any more theories.

so you're saying german-russian rapebabies produced the porsche 911?

god bless them

He was literally the leader of the Soviet Union. You can't accuse him of being a Wehraboo.

>The other reason i thought could be possible is that the germans caught the soviets in a lot of encirclements at the start, and it seems that an encircled fighting force cut off from supplies is basically cannon fodder, which would count towards the higher k:d ratio.
Also the fact that millions of Soviet POWs captured in these encirclements were starved to death

doesn't mean he can't lie about Stalin, it was literally the foundation of his entire leadership career

He said that he agrees with Stalin on that topic though.

Forces don't lose real manpower nor are they obliterated unless they're encircled and even then, you surrender you don't fight. You're basically out of the battle at that point.

>3 men per rifle

Do you even need to ask?

Ah yeah i forgot to add that, the encircled force was basically done and dusted so when you include the giant 700k kiev encirclement that adds a fair bit to the k:d ratio.

I cant find any sources but i remember reading something about the soviets had little regard for life. You had things like penal battalions which obviously would add to the number but they gave an example that if there was a fortified german position with heavy artillery they would send multiple infantry divisions as diversion attacks along with a tank division and obviously the diversion infantry division didnt stand a chance against heavy guns.

>The other reason i thought could be possible is that the germans caught the soviets in a lot of encirclements at the start, and it seems that an encircled fighting force cut off from supplies is basically cannon fodder, which would count towards the higher k:d ratio.

You underestimate the difficulty in destroying encircled forces that refuse to surrender. The Germans had to deal with desperate breakout attempts by Soviet infantry/tank divisions. The Germans also had to advance deeper into the "Kessel" after completing the encirclement, they didn't have the time to wait till the trapped troops started to stave. They had to destroy the encircled formations as quickly as possible so they could continue towards Moscow before the Winter struck.

>Also almost air supremacy at the start of the war probably helped and I think a lot of the disparity occured at the start of the war.

This too. Retreating Soviet columns were strafed/bombed constantly by the Luftwaffe.

nice meme. the soviets had ridiculous production numbers. they always had enough rifles to arm their men. the problem lay in their logistics system, you may have confused the army with the penal battalions, who were often unarmed

he had zero interest to lie about something like that

>23 million dead in WW2
Stalin gave no fucks

you kids need to brush up on your Military knowledge
the basic concept is that in a battle where an attacking force needs to attack a defensive position,there is a need to achieve atleast 3:1 force ratio to ensure success,5:1 if it is fortified
It is very rare for a force to achieve such disposition,so the most basic way is to concentrate your attack so that there is local superiority in numbers,there are also force ratio multipliers,this could be in the form of elite or shock units,artillery or air support
the Germans 'developed' Blitzkrieg which utilize a combined arms method with an assault spearheaded by tanks and mobile infantry into a weak point of the enemy line and continue to penetrate it until they reach the focal point,after that they engaged on cauldron battle to wipe out the remnants of the defensive line
the Soviets developed deep battle under Tukchevesky which is a form of operational warfare that seeks to defeat the enemy by a succession of tactics include multiple probing attacks and independent attack throughout the frontline,disrupting the enemy line of communication and subsequently disbalance enemy forces
to say that Red Army is retarded means you lack understanding in military doctrines and developments

literally this, the only troops that ever "see" the vast numbers are the ones that surrender at the point of attack.

attack along a broad front, any attacks that are thwarted are ignored, attacks that breakthrough are further supported and exploited by reserves.

>stalin has the guy who came up with deep battle killed for no raisin
what did he mean by this

both countries were pretty awful in that regard
they both tried to replace sound strategy and tactics with brutality.

Stalin's commentaries on military matters are not to be trusted. He had very poor judgement. That the soviet union came out on top despite having him involved in military matters is a testament to their spirit.

"According to Montefiore, a few days later, as Yezhov buzzed in and out of Stalin's office, a broken Tukhachevsky confessed that Avel Yenukidze had recruited him in 1928 and that he was a German agent in cahoots with Nikolai Bukharin to seize power. "

>he had very poor judgement
he ordered attacks when the red army clearly wasn't ready for a massive strategic offensive, such as in the immediate wake of the winter of 1941, I really don't think that disqualifies his overall strategic view of the war.

Naw he's on record of having str8 up said "wanna know why we won the war? I prepared us so well!"
Stalin is often a thesis that generates its own antithesis.

>I prepared us so well
yeah of fucking course that's what he told everybody, him living in the most effective propaganda state before north korea and all.

It wasn't public, it was something stated privately to general Schtemenko in conversation. Obviously, a memoir source.

Herein lies the difficulty in determining Stalin's position on the matter: all we have to rely on are hadith's. Everyone attributes contradicting statements to the man.

Oh, wow, a tortured man told his captors what they wanted to hear. What a surprise.

>Not even 2:1, only like 1.8!

yeah, and then tukachevsky got merced
4 no raisin

There's nothing special about Stalin on this one. Surely there were times when you had conflicting opinions on the same event, perhaps depending on your mood? Whether or not the Soviets would have won without lend lease must be decided from firmer evidence than what some guy said at some point.

it's more a result of the fact that the mortality ratio of Soviet POWs in German custody was something ridiculous, like 60-80%, and that the nature of the war was a war of extermination rather than Stalin "not giving a fuck"

thanks Zapp Brannigan

Which is what I was getting at, actually.

Immediately after the Great Purges, yes. A few years later, no.

U.S inflicted a 2:1 casualty ratio to Wermacht. Was Wermacht composed of retards who relied on throwing manpower at enemies?

Bagration is there on par with German plan for Battle for France in terms of brilliance of strategy.

Germany produced more steel and coal and employed more people in the military industry thorough the whole war. The idea that Germany, controlling the whole of Europe, was outindustrialized by USSR is absurd.

And they consistently failed to put that steel and coal to work in producing more armaments, in some part because they were now responsible for keeping things going in their occupied territories (Who, let's not forget, all had economic crashes and were often not even 1/10th as productive as they were before the German invasions), and in some part because they were just amazingly inefficient at the product stage production end.

I always think of this line when reading about the Eastern Front.

Tends to happen when all the good commanders get purged.

(((good commanders)))

>implying it wasn't just jews left over