Why does Russia never get its shit together?

Ethnic Russian here.
1000 years of history, shit never gotten together.
The economics are somewhat understandable given cold weather, etc - although I think there's no excuse for the GDP to be only the size of Italy's. But why always the illiberal politics, always corruption? Always human life seems to be a bit less valued than in the West.

Russia stopped Nazi Germany and got the first person into space. It's not all shit.

don't worry global warming will help you country get better climate soon. Corruption is because people have don't have enough fear of the God.

They are the HAPAS of history, need i say more

Stop being corrupt.
Stop drinking.

>1000 years of history, shit never gotten together.
Well, here you go: the West has around 2000 years of history, and a direct proximity to nice places like Greece.
>But why always the illiberal politics, always corruption?
Compared to what?

Bolshevik-occupied Russia that conspired with Germany. They helped starting this shit and barely survived. It's not a huge success.

Why is having the gdp the size of Italy a bad thing? Italy is an economic superopower.
>illiberal politics
Whats good with liberal politics? Anyway until the 18 century Russia hasn't been more or less liberal compared to other countries. During Ivan grozny's reign 50000 people were killed, while Henry VIII killed 2% of the british population. In Western europe entire cities were massacred over church differences, while the Russian empire was religiously tolerant.
The russian empire wasn't more conservative than Austria, Prussia, Spain or the Ottomans, the only difference was England and France.

>corruption
Solely has to do with economic hardship.

Besides, stop pretending you don't need connections in the west and that elections are decided by who has the biggest wallet.

keep calm and cyka blat comrade

>Bolshevik-occupied Russia
You can hardly think of something more ideologically biased and nonsensical than expressions like this.

Я cюдa зaхoжy нe твoё нытьё читaть. Boн нa нeмцeв пocмoтpи y них cкopo Mepкeль c Myгaмбe пo cpoкy cидeния вo влacти cpaвняeтcя, a y CШA вooбщe пpeзидeнт eвpeй кoтopый cвoих людeй вeздe cтaвит, вышe нoc

>shit never gotten together.

>What is kievan Rus
>What is Muscovy
>What is Minin and pozharsky
>What is Peter the great
>What is Catherine the great
>What is Alexander II
>What is Stalin's industrialization
>What is post 2000 economic and geopolitical growth

>Why is having the gdp the size of Italy a bad thing?
Because Russia has vastly more land and mineral wealth than Italy. Even considering the weather differences, it seems that for Russia to have a GDP that compares to Italy's is a failure.
>Whats good with liberal politics?
With liberal politics, there is less political violence and more stability. This is both good in its own right and also helps economically.

I don't want to swallow the whole "Muh "no warm-water seaports" meme from reddit, but Russia DOES have very shitty geography.

Actual Russian here.
300 years of liberalism, always traitors and russophobes.
And bar that, the most disastrous rule ever when they actually manage to come to power.

Well if you hate Russia.
I consider it to be the first victim of bolshevism. A group that was a product of Second International and who wanted to spread the revolution over entire Europe and got rid of nationhood as a concept.
It may have changed later. Stalin also wanted to spread his influence but it was solely based on his authority. And all who came after him were just old men in a degenerating country so I guess we can call it a Russia being imperialistic shit to others while slowly crumblind away.

Much of that list is of the "build on top of a foundation made of the skulls of your own people" variety.

>the most disastrous rule ever when they actually manage to come to power.
When have liberals ever held power in Russia for longer than a few years? And when they did hold power, are you seriously suggesting that it was worse than Stalinism?
>traitors and russophobes
How could any intelligent Russian NOT be a russophobe?

>build on top of a foundation made of the skulls of your own people
All nations are like this

Catherine II was called "great" while she was alive by her flatterers. Wasn't good for the common men.
The last two are also debatable. Stalin was fucking Stalin and as for modern Russia it's not doing great lately and its prospects are rather grim compared to some other countries but it all depends on future relations with China.

>How could any intelligent Russian NOT be a russophobe?
Because absolute majority of intelligent Russians (smart people, not intelligentsia, also known as the shit of nation) were not.
>And when they did hold power, are you seriously suggesting that it was worse than Stalinism?
By every single objective scale - they were much worse than Stalin's administration, of course.
>When have liberals ever held power in Russia for longer than a few years?
Well, they were such shit that they couldn't hold power for more than several years. I see no contradiction here.

I'd much rather have Merkel than Putin, that's for sure. I don't even understand the comparison. Merkel is the chancellor of a liberal state that has broad liberal institutions which keep each other in check. I'm no expert on Russian politics despite being ethnic Russian, but from what I can understand of Russian politics it seems to me that it is a thin democratic veil draped over security organs. Am I wrong?
I guess maybe you would argue that it is the same everywhere, but the truth is that it really isn't. Not to the same extent, in any case.

>By every single objective scale - they were much worse than Stalin's administration, of course.
What liberal rule specifically are you talking about, that was worse than Stalinism?

Think about the mess that will happen after Russian "glorious leader" and president for life leaves office.

Either the 90s or 1917.

Russia was a huge fucking exporter of timber, cotton and grain (Russia supplied about 40% of Britain's timber in the 1890s IIRC). Of course the water ports fucked her over and it's not entirely a reddit meme, it's a valid argument as to what harmed Russia's economic growth, there were other factors but this also has to be taken into acccount, like the laughably small infrastructure. Russia had about 40,000-60,000km total length of railroad tracks if memory serves right. In contrast, the USA had about 400,000 in total length.

But it is absurd to claim that the short period of provisional government in 1917, or even the 90s clusterfuck, were worse than Stalinism. Stalinism was archetypal totalitarianism, with literal mass murder, personality cult, the secret police torturing people, and so on.

Scratch that, Russia was supplying nearly half of Britain's timber in 1913.

>Stalinism was archetypal totalitarianism, with literal mass murder, personality cult, the secret police torturing people, and so on.
I did say "objective scale", not propaganda nonsense, didn't I?

Y'all saved Europe from Napoleon. Stopped SJW for another 100 years

In the 90s Russia lost more population than in WW2.

>mass murder
Not much, not more than other 30s dictatorships
Also constant murder by the mafia

If you don't what you're talking about, don't make grandiose claims. If youre a self hating russian diaspora, go assimilate. We don't want you.


>broad liberal institutions
All controled by US puppets. German elections are controlled by pro US lobbyists, and the CIA routinely manipulates them. That way german foreign and economic policy is always in line with US interests.

> Am I wrong
Although there is some fraud, russia hosts effective elections. You have freedom of speech and there are huge amounts of various "liberal" anti-russian parties. Its not democracy's problem if they're unpopular and the majrity of Russians see Putin as the only competent leader. On Russian mainstream media, anti-russians are invited and there many different points of view are welcomed, compared to only neoliberal or neocon views being shown in western MSM. Different russian parties can vote for or against different laws. The thing is that the most popular Russian parties are all patriots and to westerners that means they're undemocratic. Does that mean the US isnt a democracy because the US parties love their country?
Oligarchs are a problem, but unlike in the west, they're not worshipped as job creators, and they're constantly criticized. When have we heard of US MSM criticizing western lobbyists or AIPAC?

>What is kievan Rus
A bunch of trifling princes who couldn't get their shit together they ended up getting raped by Mongols
>Muscovy
Ivan IV fucked up so bad that he basically created the conditions that allowed the Poles to occupy Moscow
>post 2000 economic and geopolitical growth
Literally riding on high gas prices

> the GDP to be only the size of Italy's
Of course anyone who has been to both Italy and Russia knows that this argument is nonsense. Measuring nation's prowess in the amount of dollar-denominated debt is ludicrous, especially after all the recent machinations to keep the US and EU afloat. On a more reasonable basis of PPP Russia comes 5th and Italy comes 11th, if we do not include European Union in the list because otherwise every European country gets counted twice. Russia has endless natural resources, positive surplus and no debt. Whether you like it or not, it will continue to be major power for as long as we can foresee, having whipped the ass of Europe twice in recent memory.

>Bolshevik-occupied Russia
Do you also refer to the french empire as Napoleon-occupied France?

>(((Ethnic))) Russian here.

И cpaзy пocлaн нaхyй.

You had a shot with Novgorod, but the perfidious Muscovite ruined it.

Its not their fault they got MONGOLED

Russia is geographically big and culturally diverse, and as such only violent authoritarianism has been successful at forming and maintaining a singular russian state. The unfortunate consequence is that after a thousand years those measures have come to be synonymous with russian culture and values, a devastating ideological trap.

Vodka

Boreal soil cant grow shit

Most Russian politician's i and civil servants (from what I believe) are lazy and don't believe they can make their country great.
Also you guys spend all your fucking money on liquor and cs:go gambling.
However I admire Russians for a few things.

>they get handed all the shot and a lot of hardships but through all of them they persevered and didn't give up (Napoleon, Ivan the Terrible, Glad the impaled, WW2 when they lost like 1/5 of their population maybe more)
>They aren't Europeans, they aren't Asians, they aren't Eurasian, when you ask a Russian his ethnicity he will tell you simply he is Russian
>it's actually a really pretty country beside the projects and ghettos
>your military is aesthetic
>your language is useful if I want to spyche out some one as a joke since it sounds like the violent taco bell diarrhea of Satan

Russia stoppe their progression by hundreds of years with communism, killing off ethnic russian christians etc pp yadda yadda.


@op
Too big, too "diverse" in culture, and seriously just way too big to really get its shit together.
Also in complete control by the russian thieves,oligarchs and jews.

>Why does Russia never get its shit together?

But it does, occasionally. Its a cycle with them.

>When have we heard of US MSM criticizing western lobbyists or AIPAC?
Literally all the fucking time?

I'm not even American, but this "ebul MSM" meme needs to end.

- russians who know something and have something to say need to stop being slow with English.
- Simply needs more people. Funny how there about as many russians as japs on their tiny island. There are uncomfortable amounts of chinese in siberia, and as it is their population growth comes from steppe muslims coming in. No wars would eventually fix this but dunno how the ruling body being aggressive again going to help with this...

russian tsar title was inspired by power wielded by mongolian khans and byzantine emperors of course you gonna end up as asiatic tier despotism with that and your people are going to be stoic gray man who dont believe in improvement or better tommorow

the rich consider the poor animals and actively keeps masses in poor state

the problem is instead of everyone given a fair chance at an OK life everyone wants to be rich, no common effort, no better life

No

Not what he's talking about.

>be a feudal shithole barely industrialized
>communist revolution happens
>proceed to btfo Nazi Germany and rival the USA for world hegemony 30 years later
>Russia stoppe their progression by hundreds of years with communism
uhh, sweetie...

tbf some used others' skulls

The Soviets could have just not been retarded and, instead of hungering to grab part of Poland and get revenge for the Polish-Soviet war, could have been one of the powers that guaranteed Polish independence against possible German aggression. Instead, the Soviets helped destroy Poland and create a German-Soviet land border. Ooops. Big mistake.

I was literally about to make a thread about Russia. I have no idea how this clusterfuck of a nation made it to modernity and even competed with the USA.

Question: What even happens in the eastern parts of Russia? I feel like there might be entire communities off the maps there.

>be a feudal shithole barely industrialized
I'd say Russia had a lot of potential in industrializing rapidly thanks to investments.
Russia was industrializing stupidly fucking fast, thanks to the investments made by France, England and even Alfred Nobel took a part in Russia's rise to petroleum. It was only stopped by the 1891-92 famines, Russo-Japanese war and WW1 of course. Russia was responsible for about 39% of the world's petroleum in 1900, only surpassed by USA later on.
>Baku oil region also gave increasing yields, amounting to 10.4 million poods in 1910, and 51.29 million poods in 1914.

Apparently it was 37%, my bad.

Instead, they took heavy losses, but ultimately managed a comeback and controlled half of Europe in the end for 40 years.
Worked out well enough for 'em, huh?

>The Soviets could have just not been retarded and, instead of hungering to grab part of Poland
Actually, Everybody tried to create an early antinazi coalition, and Poland itself was the main reason it failed.

>What even happens in the eastern parts of Russia?
Well if you mean modern Russia I can't tell you much but the Russians used to trade with China in the 18th-19th centuries after the treaty of Kiakhta. About 15-20% of Russia's custom revenues were coming straight from trading with China.

>The Germans could have just toned down their autism and, instead of grabbing Austria, Czecho-Slovakia and Poland and get revenge for the Great War, could have been one of the powers that guaranteed Polish independence against possible Soviet aggression. Instead, the Germans helped destroy Europe and became a USA vassal. Ooops. Big mistake.
lel. name one country who would've helped his old enemy instead of getting some clay, while being hated by pretty much every european power

and yet it still melted against a more modern and efficent nation in WW1. I don't think a tsarist Russia would've lasted more than France in 1941.

I never argued for "Would've lasted more than France". I'm saying Russia had potential to industrializing, I'm' trying to clarify Russia wasn't just sitting with a thumb up its ass and not industrializing, being a "feudal shithole" (although I will blame the lack of private and government initiative for letting its shitty serfdom system last until 1861). Russia opened up over 20 steel factories and some factories saw employment rise by 100%. Nowhere did I mention "how well would it last against Germany" or w/e you were trying to state.

You know that Soviets wanted to establish a giant state under their boot. Just as easily they allied with Nazi Germany.

>The economics are somewhat understandable given cold weather

Cold weather is actually an precondition for a strong economy, see Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Canada -- and how all the major shitholes of the World are located in hot climate zones.

No, what made your economy bad was that the industrial revolution never happened to the same extent. Then you got decades of Communism, a stagnant and ineffective system that institutionalizes corruption.

After Communism, things were even worse for many, since all former state assets got sold for pennies to cliques which now rule Russia under Putins patronage. Wealth inequality in Russia is insanely high. The elites have no real interest in developing services and high tech, since they get all their income from selling natural resources.

>Always human life seems to be a bit less valued than in the West.

Modern and postmodern thought, protestantism haven't had a major impact in Russia. You still have a somewhat primal approach to life, wherein the strongest survive and the unlucky are left to die.

The authoritarian regimes of Tsarism, Stalinism, now Putinism also reinforce anti-liberal, tribal, collectivist thought.

>wherein the strongest survive and the unlucky are left to die
That's western thought. Russians are far more collectivistic.
Example: while western parents . kcik out their children out of the house after 18 and don't care if they die of homelessness. Russian parents usually let their children live with them and can tolerate them if they're unemployed.

honestly I was kinda hyperbolic with that statement. But still, even if Russia was on the right path and had some good minds (like Witte) you still have to deal with an encroached nobility, petty scheming and that fucking retard of Nicholas II. Also is debatable if an over reliance on foreign investment is a good thing

Also remember that shitting out 10k+/year tanks is one of the main reasons Russia (and probably the continental europe) is still a nation and not Bereich 11, used as slave labour. Thus making the industrialization's pace under Stalin the baseline for the russian survival.

>stagnant and ineffective system that institutionalizes corruption.
Industrialization and post WW1 recovery contradicts this. The USSR failed because of westernized elites, economic isolation(Russia's ternal problem) and 20% of GDP spent on the military.

>over reliance on foreign investment is a good thing
Yeah I sort of should've clarified that. Foreign investment helped "kickstart" Russia's industrialization. Russia's main goal was to literally become "self-sufficient" which is why they started imposing massive as fuck tarrifs and started subsidizing Russian factories etc.. To kill off competition and let Russian companies thrive later on.
Also I didn't really try and imply Stalin's industrialization was meaningless, it was important.

>Italy is an economic superopower.
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

>What is Peter the great
>What is Catherine the great

Russia became Germany's playground because of them

I was reading Lenin's Tomb, particularly the Nina Andreyeva affair. There were people who literally wanted Stalin back, fully acknowledging his brutality. One guy even said that maybe this is what Russians needed (or deserved), someone who could do what was necessary to put the country back on track and without Western influence.

It would have worked out a lot better for them had they not suffered the horrors of WW2.
>Poland itself was the main reason it failed.
How so?
>lel. name one country who would've helped his old enemy instead of getting some clay, while being hated by pretty much every european power
Well, it's not about helping the old enemy, it's about being geopolitically wise, which clearly the Soviets weren't. As for the Germans, I agree that Nazi geopolitics/grand strategy were retarded.

what's that book nigga

>while western parents . kcik out their children out of the house after 18 and don't care if they die of homelessness. Russian parents usually let their children live with them and can tolerate them if they're unemployed.

You've never been in Southern Europe, it seems.

"Economic Development of Russia 1905-1914" by Margaret Miller, enjoy.

I'm from southeast europe. none of the old people I know have kicked their children out. Some even continue to support them even if they're 50yo deadbeat drunks.

>What is FIAT
>What is AeroMachi
>What is the cultural and tourist industry
>You probably have an italian designed household appliance

What's wise about protecting a country that wants you country partitioned and was hoping for France and Britain to ally with it so it could invade you?
BTW Pilsudski was hoping to ally with Hitler for a crusade against bolshevism, but didn't realize that Hitler had plans for Poland too.

Italy is a third world shithole.

t. Anders

>Italy
Population: 60,589,445
GPD per capita: $30,507

>Russia
Population: 144,463,451
GPD per capita: $10,248

>>What is post 2000 economic and geopolitical growth
And what is 2014?

Minor gdp drop that was mitigated through economic diversification and the gold savings. The Russian economy grew by 2% this year

With 2.7% inflation, so it's actually a loss.

another brainlet which dont understand how GDP works.

What about the low countries, switzerland?

Use PPP adjusted data. The one used by CIA, and pretty much everyone who isn't aiming for unrealistic and rubbish comparison.
>51 Italy $36,800 2016 est.
>72 Russia $26,500 2016 est.
>67 Poland $27,800 2016 est.
>64 Estonia $29,300 2016 est.

So, as you can see, Russia is similar to it's neighbors. While Poland and Estonia are portrayed as stellar success, Russia is portrayed as Central African Republic.
I'm not saying Russia is great, or that it's ideal, ''savior of the world'', and such shit, but there is a disgusting and overwhelming tendency in West to portray them as some hellish impoverished place. Which is also far from reality.
Drop in oil prices, combined with political and economic assault on Russia.
Sure, it was a ''mistake'' to focus so much on energy exports, but that's such a silly argument.
Energy was a good place to invest, and Russian investments went there.

>assassinations
>information warfare
>land annexing
>literal James Bond villain as president

Geez, I wonder why people/investors don't want anything to do with this place.

Novosibirsk is a big scientific center. They domesticate foxes, make home brew antivirus drugs and generally don't afraid of anything