Were the Nuremberg trials fair?

He killed more whites than Jews. He's done more damage to Europe than any other person in history, yet im sure you praise him while also calling yourself a white nationalist. Brainlets smdh

you're trying to operate within that other user's logic but failing. the answer is obvious:
>they view hitler as the last noble cry of resistance against an emergent world order
>literally the world decides to try and stop him
>the ensuing war devastates basically everyone
in this situation you're not going to chastise the man who was resisting for a noble cause. and you're calling him a brainlet lmao

>invade neighboring countries and wreak havoc throughout Europe with no signs of stopping
>kill millions of innocent civilians
>dude it's a noble cause lmao

Drink bleach

user I completely agree with you, but I think that guy was just trying to play devil's advocate and explain what wheraboos believe

Let me try devil's advocate. I personally think there is a lot of nuance to the good guy bad guy thing, so here goes.
Same thing as Britain and the Allies. Japan tussled with the US over imperial interests in Asia combined with the fact that the US was already supporting Britain and company in Europe.
Britain was caught red-handed planning to violate Norway's neutrality to cut off German sea shipping, but the Germans just managed to launch their response before the British invasion arrived and was repulsed.
Once it was on, it was a race to secure flanks and shipping by controlling the surrounding territory.
And yes, countless civilians died due to Allied bombing.
Did you know that Hitler spent over a month trying to get Churchill to stop bombing civilians in Berlin after Luftwaffe bombers were blown off course and hit a civilian area of London?bbc.co.uk/history/events/britain_bombs_berlin

Oh, I forgot to mention the torture (at least what we know about it) that was administered to German POW's to get screw with them and get confessions.
Check pgs. 4 and on.
loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/pdf/Malmedy_report.pdf

More here:
fredautley.com/pdffiles/book01.pdf

Why are they wearing sunglasses? Also a trial is more than their victims ever got.

in general they were pretty fair

I mean it wasn't fair in that we committed war crimes too in the process and we weren't tried there, but everyone except the most idealistic people about international law knows that's not how it works, the winner can get away with whatever they want.

They wore them so they can doze off during the boring ass trial that they already know the outcome of.

Why aren't they wearing their nazi suits except for that one guy?

Of course not. It was propaganda.

>imperial Britain and France
>expansionism is bad mkay
>USA
>Racism, segregation and eugenics is bad mkay
>Soviet Union
>concentration camps and collectively blaming ethnic groups is bad mkay
What a joke

Doesn't seem like they were tortured that much. They found no evidence of physical mistreatment and other accusations are also rather exaggerated (mock trials, threats and so on).

>more here
This book is completely biased and unreliable.

Not even a hitler-fellater and I agree with this

They were only for show. The tribunals and such were not based on any legitimate authority, they had no legal basis for any of it. But the fact is they were going to mete out punishment (read: vengeance) no matter what, so they might as well try and make it seem legit for the history books.

>verdict wasn't genocide for all G*rmans

possibly the most unfair and unjust trial in human history

>only tried one nation for war crimes when almost every nation that fought in WW2 committed them
>even Japan managed to escape any kind of trial, even though millions of Chinese and Koreans suffered at their hands
It was vengeance exacted by the Jews, plain and simple. That was the only "justice" in the trials, they were a farce.

Complete nonsense. They acquitted some high ranking Nazis. Also, the amount of evidence presented in court was enormous. I'm sure all your knowledge about the tribunal comes from neo-Nazi sites. Please educate yourself.

There were trials of Japanese war criminals.

>every nation committed them
No other nation deliberately murdered 12-14 million non-combatants during the war.

>They acquitted some high ranking Nazis
Useful ones, by sheer coincidence. And I'm not a Neo Nazi, the Nazis were scum and got what was coming to them. But pretending like the trials were based on anything except Jewish vengeance is pure fantasy.

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2223831/How-Britain-tortured-Nazi-PoWs-The-horrifying-interrogation-methods-belie-proud-boast-fought-clean-war.html

Exaggerated, all of it. Lies.

So it's okay to commit war crimes as long as the other guy did worse ones? Is that how justice works now? Cause it sounds like you're just proving my point: it was completely arbitrary and not based on any standard or legal authority. If the Nuremberg trials were legit then after they were done sentencing Nazis to death they would have dragged the Americans up there, and the Soviets after them. But of course that wouldn't happen, it wasn't even considered, because the trials were not trials at all.

Speer was useful?

Maybe yes, maybe not. There is of course no evidence they were tortured. Sorry, a shitty article in dailymail is not an evidence of systematic torture of German POWs.

Dumping a list I assembled of the fate of the highest ranking German leaders:

[1/3]
Hitler's Inner Circle:

>1. Adolf Hitler [Fuhrer]: committed suicide.
>2. Herman Goering [Marshall of the Reich]: sentenced to death, then committed suicide.
>3. Heinrich Himmler [Reichsführer-SS]: committed suicide
>4. Walter Von Brautistch [Commander-in-Chief of the Army]: died in prison
>5. Joseph Goebbels [Minister for Propaganda]: committed suicide
>6. Wilhelm Keitel [Chief of the High Command]: executed
>7. Alfred Jodl [Chief of Operations Staff]: executed
>8. Karl Doenitz [Commander-In-Chief of the Navy]: imprisoned for 10 years
>9. Martin Bormann [Staff of the Deputy Führer]: killed during the war, sentenced to death in abstentia
>10. Rudolph Hess [Deputy Fuhrer]: died in prison
>11. Wilhelm Frick [Minister of the Interior]: executed
>12. Otto Thierack [Minister of Justice]: committed suicide
>13. Walther Funk [Minister of Economics]: imprisoned for 12 years, let out due to ill-health, died shortly after
>14. Albert Speer [Minister of Armaments]: imprisoned for 20 years
>15. Philipp Bouhler [Chief of the Chancellery of the Führer and SS-Oberst-Gruppenführer]: committed suicide

Reichskommissars:
>16. Josef Grohé (Belgium): imprisoned for 10 years
>17. Arthur Seyss-Inquart (Netherlands): executed
>18. Josef Terboven (Norway): committed suicide
>19. Hinrich Lohse (Baltics): imprisoned for 10 years
>20. Erich Koch (Ukraine): died in prison
>21. Siegfried Kasche (Moscow): executed

>f the Nuremberg trials were legit then after they were done sentencing Nazis to death they would have dragged the Americans up there
But no one was convicted for area bombing or unrestricted submarine warfare because that would be retarded and the court agreed, so what would they be charging them with?

[2/3]
Field Marshals and equivalents:

>22. Erich von Manstein: imprisoned for 8 years
>23. Erwin Rommel: committed suicide during the war
>24. Walther von Reichenau: died during the war
>25. Fedor Von Bock: killed during the war
>26. Erhard Milch: imprisoned for 10 years
>27. Albert Kesselring: imprisoned for 7 years
>28. Werner von Blomberg: died in prison
>29. Günther von Kluge: committed suicide during the war
>30. Wilhelm List: imprisoned for 7 years
>31. Gerd von Rundstedt: imprisoned for a few years, let out due to ill-health, died shortly after
>32. Hugo Sperrle: acquitted
>33. Erwin von Witzleben: committed suicide during the war
>34. Georg von Küchler: imprisoned for 8 years
>35. Friedrich Paulus: acquitted
>36. Ernst Busch: died in prison
>37. Paul Ludwig Ewald von Kleist: died in prison
>38. Maximilian von Weichs: never tried, lived to die of natural causes
>39. Wolfram Freiherr von Richthofen: died in prison
>40. Walter Model: committed suicide
>41. Ferdinand Schörner: imprisoned for 12 years
>42. Robert Ritter von Greim: committed suicide
>43. Hans-Georg von Friedeburg [Commander-in-Chief of the Kriegsmarine]: committed suicide
>44. Erich Raeder [Grand Admiral]: imprisoned for 10 years, let out due to ill-health, died shortly after
>45. Franz Xaver Schwarz [SS-Oberst-Gruppenführer]: died in prison
>46. Sepp Dietrich [SS-Oberst-Gruppenführer]: imprisoned for 12 years
>47. Kurt Daluege [SS-Oberst-Gruppenführer]: executed
>48. Paul Hasseur [SS-Oberst-Gruppenführer]: acquitted

Yes and no. They were kangaroo courts for criminals that didn't deserve a trial.

[3/3]
Reichsleiters:

>49. Max Amman [also SS-Gruppenfuhrer]: imprisoned for 12 years, stripped of all property and assets, died in poverty a few years after release
>50. Walter Buch [also SS-Obergruppenführer]: committed suicide in prison
>51. Richard Darre [also Reichsminister of Food]: imprisoned for 5 years, let out due to ill-health, died three years later
>52. Otto Dietrich [also SS-Obergruppenführer and Press Chief of Nazi Germany]: imprisoned for 5 years, let out early due to ill-health, died shortly after
>53. Franz von Epp [Reichsstatthalter]: died in prison
>54. Hans Frank [Governor-General of the General Government]: executed
>55. Konstantin Hierl [Director of the Reich Labour Service]: imprisoned for 5 years
>56. Robert Ley [Head of the German Labour Front]: committed suicide in prison
>57. Viktor Lutze [Stabschef]: killed during war
>58. Alfred Rosenberg [Leader of the Foreign Policy Office of the NSDAP]: executed
>59. Baldur von Schiaruch [Reichsjugendführer]: imprisoned for 20 years

Other:
>60. Reinhard Heydrich [Director of the Reich Main Security Office, also SS-Obergruppenführer]: killed during the war
>61. Ernst Kaltenbrunner [Director of the Reich Main Security Office, also SS-Obergruppenführer]: executed
>62. Joachim von Ribbentrop [Foreign Minister]: executed

>62-104. Gauleiters. 13 committed suicide, 10 were executed, 8 went missing, 3 got prison sentences of at least ten years, 10 got various prison sentences of less than ten years.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Gauleiters

>the trials were not trials at all
Of course they were trials. Sorry, the world isn't perfect and Nuremberg was a trial against Nazi war criminals, not against everyone involved in this war. But don't worry, most Nazis and war criminals avoided the trial, my neo-Nazi friend.

So, of the 104 highest ranking Nazis:
-28 committed suicide.
-20 were executed
-21 died during the war or in/immediately after prison.
-13 were imprisoned for at least ten years.
-8 went missing.
-11 got various prison sentences of less than 10 years.
-3 were acquitted.

Should probably assemble a more complete list. I'm missing several important figures. And I feel like every German general who was at least a corps commander was deserving of punishment, rather than just the absolute highest.

It's not a shitty article. It's an account that was censored by the British government. It's out in the open that they hid the incriminating details and you're going to say there's no proof? theguardian.com/uk/2005/nov/12/secondworldwar.world

>I feel like every German general

Good job revealing your astounding limited forsight.

Guess what was the only thing blocking the Soviet Union from the rest of Europe?
West Germany.

What did West Germany need? A national army.

Who would take command of that army?
Those mid level Generals you're condemning.

Myths and mercy had to be dealt out side by side with winners justice.

Literally fuck off.

>was it fair?
No, those men were dead the second they got captured

>was there any other solution?
No, not without Soviet autistic screeching and thousands of German lesser officers being executed instead

>Guess what was the only thing blocking the Soviet Union from the rest of Europe?
Nuclear bombs.
>Myths and mercy had to be dealt out side by side with winners justice.
Nah, fuck the Germans. Morgenthau was right.

>jews
>civilians

Nuclear Bombs superiority only lasted for what? several years?

Thanks for revealing yourself. Morgenthau got thousands of nice young GIs killed because he backed the Germans into a corner.

That's what you defend. That's what you stand for.

It is a shitty article. This is apparently the main evidence:
>There is also a long and detailed letter of complaint from one SS captain, Fritz Knoechlein, who describes his treatment after being taken to the Cage in October 1946.

But what does it have to do with Nuremberg trials?

I guess that's why only 20 out of 104 were executed.

Baldur von Schiaruch and Artur Axemann should have swung

heading off to bed, but i don't get how you will just gloss over the actual juicy bits.
>There was pandemonium at the War Office when the book was submitted to be censored in June 1950. Officials begged Scotland to quietly lock the manuscript away, then threatened him with prosecution under the Official Secrets Act. Special Branch detectives were sent to raid his retirement home at Bourne End, Buckinghamshire. The Foreign Office urged suppression of the book, as it would assist "persons agitating on behalf of war criminals". An assessment by MI5 pointed out that Scotland had detailed repeated breaches of the Geneva convention, with his admissions that prisoners had been forced to kneel while being beaten about the head; forced to stand to attention for up to 26 hours; threatened with execution; or threatened with "an unnecessary operation".

>The book was eventually published after a seven-year delay, and only after all incriminating material had been deleted.

those warcrimes were in self defence

Well, when you consider yourself to be the good guy, you can't just execute everyone

>it's not the Germans fault, they HAD to kill those nice young GIs. They dindu nuffin. They just wanted mo' lebensraum fo' der kinder!

>forced to kneel while being beaten about the head; forced to stand to attention for up to 26 hours; threatened with execution; or threatened with "an unnecessary operation".

Ach nein!!! Truly another Versailles

This was in late 1944, the Americans were inside Germany, fighting for Aachen when the word came down. The plan Morgenthau drew and leaked for publicity did Goebbels a fucking favour.

You're a fucking autist, but you got me replying, so 6/10

Like I said, it has nothing to do with Nuremberg trials. Sure, maybe they were tortured a bit (did anyone die in that prison) but I doubt it was that severe. It has nothing to do with Nuremberg trials or Malmedy massacre trial.

And I doubt their confession was the only evidence needed to sentence them to death.

And Germany could have surrendered and avoided that fate. Instead they decided they would keep killing nice young GIs.

It's not like they planned to exterminate the German people. Sure, it was a harsh plan, but it was still much better than what the Germans planned for East Europe.

No but most of the verdicts were fairly just, a kangaroo court can be more accurate then a real one if 95% of defendants are guilty

There's still a Germany after they royally fucked Europe 3 times over, so no.

No, but it doesn't matter

not him but there was a pamphlet circulated by some nobody Jew in the U.S. advocating for the extermination of all Germans and the Nazi propaganda claimed that it was American government policy, so the Morgenthau plan just added to that

>b-b-but there wasn't a law against industrialized genocide
lmaoing at your life, naziboos

What's Veeky Forums's opinion on the the three Nuremberg defendants who were acquitted (Franz von Papen, Hans Fritzsche, and Hjalmar Schacht)?

Did they legit dindu nuffin or were they as guilty as the rest and just better at swaying the judges?

Fritzsche is literally who. Papen and Schacht were responsible for Hitler's rise to power, especially Papen.

Papen really should have hung for his ineptitude

A lot more fair than what the russians wanted done.

also
this this this this this and this Also, how often have your heard of a show trial lasting 288 days?

Indiscriminate killing of civilians gets you a death sentence, unless you use the methods employed by the allies of course - they are morally pure because it's the allies.

I think we all know what is going on there.

>Area bombings to destroy the enemies ability to wage industrial warfare or sinking ships laden with arms and supplies of a military nature is the same as taking a bunch of unarmed people out into the woods and blowing their brains out

Not in Germany.

dw.com/en/landmark-trial-pushed-germany-to-tackle-nazi-past/a-3349537

>kill 5000 Jews
>get at most 10 years

I thought the url said "nazi pasta"

>completely sperg out over all of Europe, causing a fucking world war
>put your own people through shit, as well as practically every other nation you come across
>eradicate entire populations without so much as the pretense of a trial
>break treaties, commit crimes and act like such autists you manage to become the most hated people in mankind's history
>HURRR WHY WEREN'T WE GIVEN A FAIR TRIAL, WHAT ABOUT THOSE NASTY AMERICANS HURRR
Fuck off, the nazis got what was coming to them. They should've considered themselves lucky they weren't immediately shot

>Laying down your arms when the enemy has publically annouced the plans to exterminate your country whether you surrender or fight to the end.

Fuck off.

>There are several illusions in all this "war potential" attitude. There is the illusion that the New Germany left after the annexations can be reduced to a "pastoral state". It cannot be done unless we exterminate or move 25,000,000 people out of it. This would approximately reduce Germany to the density of the population of France - Herbert Hoover

Fuck off as well.

nothing relating to war is supposed to be fair

>fuck off as well
Hoover was against the plan so I don't know what's your point. The allies did not plan to exterminate or move 25 million Germans. He also said it in 1947, after the war.

no because there wasn't a single bolshevik there

No

You can't judge people with crimes, when they commited said crimes, that legislation didn't exist.

How do you think legislation starts to exist? Do you think charges for embezzlement or rape were made on day 0 of human development?

stupid argument
>you drink a beer
>now I say drinking beer is illegal
>you are arrested and executed for drinking that bear even though when you drank that beer it wasn't illegal

Without white people the world would be utter shit when it comes to living standards and culture actually. Africa is utterly useless except for its ressources and a few north african countries.
South America shouldve stayed tribal and left alone.

>Comparing drinking beer to massacring ethnic minorities
And my argument is stupid?

>changing subjects

Americans killed thousands of blacks while fighting evil racism and genocide in europe.
UK was still severly fucking over colonies and former ones.
Soviets routinely killed millions of russian christians and tsarists while "fighting evil Germany"

Get your head out of your ass. The only thing Germany did different is trying to industrialize it.

Just because there were no international laws in the books against invading armies going into villages and killing all the inhabitants means that it is ok and those who did it shouldn't be punished?

it doesn't mean it was ok
but that doesn't mean the Nurnberg Trials were fair either
It's a general principle of Law that criminal laws cannot be applied retroactively

None of them were on trial though

Good thing charges like "crimes against peace" have existed since the late 1920's then isn't it?

>industrialize it.
That's the key right there.

If you were in charge of conquered nazi germany after the war, what would you have done with those responsible for the war and the holocaust? Just let them go?

>crimes against peace
literal buzzord that can mean anything
not relevant
the UK and France's Verssailles Treaty was the biggest crime against peace

In 999 times out of 1000 similar situations in human history like the allies were in with their conquered foes, they would have just put them to the sword and been done with it.

Either kill them on the spot or give them an actual trial if thats what you want.
The Nürnberg Farce was just fucking show for the world.
Just kill them all, its wartimes, who needs a trial. Kill your enemies and be done with it.
Even tho they probably should have, especially on the soviet side.

>the UK and France's Verssailles Treaty was the biggest crime against peace

Not that user but it actually was.
Without the treaty, WW2 wouldnt have happened as it did.

>It's the treaties fault
>We HAD to invade all of Europe bar Spain, Switzerland and Sweden
Let me guess, it was self defence?

I don't understand what was so unfair about them? I have yet to hear a naziboo (not calling you one) their main issues with the trial.....btw you may know that there were 11 more Nuremberg trials after this main one (Einsatzgruppen, Doctors, IG Farbin, etc) and their acquittal rate was much higher than the current US court system.

The holocaust didn't happen
War crimes is a fake accusation since it's just war
Most of those people were only executing orders

But if the Holocaust didn't happen then what orders were they only executing?

Why didn't they mention this at their trial? Why would they use the defense that they were simply following orders to commit something that the prosecution made up?

Model killed himself?

Fuck man, I forgot that