Why is this empire so overrated here?

about*

> You're irrelevant.
> Invents electricity

> don't even take your kind seriously sorry

Nobody takes you seriously since the last siege of Vienna, your people are utter retards who declared the printing press illegal and printing under arabic script as punishable by death.

Your people are the reason Muslims today are so retarded, as the first book in arabic script was printed only in the 18th fucking century.

That is why you have 40 times less engineers and scientists per capita than any other culture.

Get bent and rinse your prophets cum from your eyes.

>overrated
>on Veeky Forums
?

>more balkanite screeching
sorry as an Eastern Anatolian Turk i do not understand your screeching

Anyone from Thrace? Do you understand what's this guy even on about? You guys have some Balkanites over there. Maybe you can translate this guy's post for me.

>Why is this empire so overrated here?
/pol/fags like and their obsession with >muh shield against the mudslimes and delusions of >muh united christendom.
If you take those away, 90% of the boo-dom disappears and what's left is mostly reasonable people who enjoy byzantine history rather than its alt-his implications.

You are pathetic. The only reason Russian's didn't take Constantinople is that other Europeans were concerned it would make them more powerful so they proped up your pathetic empire.

>refusing to aknowledge defeat and make shitty jokes instead
This isn't reddit.

>muh russia
lel
>Constantinople
sorry, where's that city? I can't find it on the map

Look i really do not understand what are you even on about. As far as i know Balkanites were our slaves and you're a bit butthurt about that and Balkanites were irrelevant as hell compared to our Jewish and Armenian minorities. Seriously, why were you so irrelevant?

> sorry as an Eastern Anatolian Turk i do not understand your screeching

That is because you cannot hear anything from all that steppe cum in your ears.

You didn't lel when you literally begged the British to help you out in the Crimean war.
I don't see a "Salonik" either what's your point?

>past tense
irrelevant
>I don't see a "Salonik" either what's your point?
It's Selanik* Also don't really care about that city. But if our Jewish brothers want us to take the city back from Greeks, we will. Then we will repopulate it with our Israeli brothers. Just like in good old days :)

Haha, I like how a turk can literally not argue with you unless he knows where are you from, hilarious.
I am American aka your boss. And I don't see no screeching besides your desperate attempts at memery, now go ahead and call me mutt/whitey whatever like your kind are oft to do when they can't say anything else. Tudles!

>It's Selanik*
It's Thessaloniki actually.
Your Jewish brothers seem to like the Greeks more. Even they realised you are hopeless.

>Your Jewish brothers seem to like the Greeks more
why would they?
Greeks massacred Jews for no good reason. Greeks must pay for what they did to sons of Israel.
We, on the other hand, protected Jews from Europe. Even settled some Jews in their ancestral homeland (Jerusalem)

>why would they?
Ask them.
>Greeks massacred Jews for no good reason.
I rue the day that a Turk complains about Greeks doing massacres.
>we protected anything
You tend to forget what you destroyed though which is always comfortable.

>You tend to forget what you destroyed though which is always comfortable.
Greeks, Armenians, Assyrians had it coming. Because they betrayed Turks.
I still don't remember us genociding Jews.

Welp would you look at that, the christian population rebelled against the opressive master that considered him a second class citizen, wow, they rebelled? WELL BETTER MASSACRE ALL THE WOMEN AND CHILDREN TOO, HAD IT COMIN'
Literally colonialism tier mindset that is extremely worrying for you to have.
I don't remember Greeks genociding Jews either you Goebbels. Yevanics were a Greek minority until the Holocaust.
Do you even accept the holocaust?

>I don't remember Greeks genociding Jews
Greeks killed Jews in Thessalonica during Nazi rule.
>Do you even accept the holocaust?
yes. it was a sad event. i can feel the shit that millions of jews had to go through in Holocaust. May Huda rest their souls.

Greek nationalism, not even kidding. Byzantine is a cornerstone of every vocal autistic greekaboo, Hellenophile and Greeks themselves. They are still butthurt about turks and 1453 as well. 600 years of butthurt.

God damn Arabs and Turks. Just had to ruin everything. Imagine the Byzantines had stayed whole. The Levant, Anatola, North Africa would all be Christian, and Hellanized. Culturally they'd all be "European", and see each other as brothers. By now, there'd be peace. No Islam, no divisions.

>They are still butthurt about turks and 1453 as well
Did you know that?

Distance from Manzikert to Istanbul is 1453 kilometers.

Greeks killed more Greeks than Jews under the Nazi rule. And they don't consider Greeks part of the blame.
I can't even fathom the logic. The jews were genocided by the Greeks but the Armenians and the Assyrians weren't genocided.
This much is true.

>Greeks killed Jews in Thessalonica during Nazi rule.
Lmao you pretty much accepted the armenian genocide right there fammy

Everyone has a right to defend themselves including Europeans. Middle eastern imperialists many times tried to invade and occupy Europe. Like for example the Persians who invaded Greece twice with massive armies.

If you actually read my post you will notice that I said nothing about "mudslimes" or "christendom." The Byzantines managed to defend Europe against all sorts of middle eastern invaders by maintaining the middle eastern frontier, including the Persians before the Muslims even existed. This protected Europe.

Middle easterners have a right to defend themselves too, in the battle of the perisan gate the Persians had a right to try and defend themselves from Alexander's invasion, even though they failed. They also had a right to defend themselves from invading Arab Muslims from the desert that later attacked them later on. As you can see this has nothing to do with being a "poltard."

I think more Turks post these kind of threads considering they weren't as popular before the whole kara boga shitfest started.

Who cares about Armenians?
They're just like Greeks. But more irrelevant and poor. They're trapped in their little mountains. Their ancestral homeland was taken by Kurds, Turks and Azerbaijani Turks. What a shame.

...

I'd say because it's an important part of history often left out of most classes. It fills in the blanks for some, as it continued and developed Ancient Greek and Roman culture and society through the Medieval era, and gave way to the Renaissance. People didn't just overnight decide to look more into science, arts, and literature, it was caused by an influx of scholars from the Byzantine Empire.
So people tend to go a bit overboard with it, which in turn makes people think it was some larger than life empire, when really, it experienced numerous golden ages and equally numerous declines.

>maintaining the middle eastern frontier
>This protected Europe.
Yeah see this is the bullshit I'm talking about. /pol/fags like you applying your modern mindset to past empires.
>I said nothing about "mudslimes" or "christendom."
Same thing with "middle easterners" and "europeans" user. You're dreaming worlds where the ERE actually gave a shit about larger identities that it didn't even conceive instead of merely minding its own strategical interests like everybody else.
If you actually cared about byzantine history you'd know also about how they bribed barbarians to skip the ERE and go creating trouble in the west. Or how they preferred allying themselves with turks as often as with europeans.

The bribing to go west occured during the Germanic and Hunnic invasions on its northern frontier. On the Anatolian frontier, they'd just bribe them to fuck off.
As for the allying with Turks, this happened during the Frankocracy, when the Ottomans became a rising power.
I'm a different guy btw.

So? I don't see how the timing matters. It still ruins his point about the ERE being some sort of heroic martyr to the cause of Europe.

The Romans had a concept of Asiatics. Consider this quote from Appian during the negotiation with Mithridates

"After you had confiscated the property of all your victims you crossed over to Europe with great armies, although we had forbidden the invasion of Europe to all the kings of Asia."

The Romans claimed that they forbid the invasion of Europe to all kings of Asia, so they did have a concept of Europe and Asia and even of protecting Europe from Asiatic invaders. The Roman empire maintained the middle eastern frontier protecting Europe from further Asiatic invaders and this was inherited by the Byzantines. You could argue it was in their "strategic interests" but that isn't the point, its in everyone's strategic interests to defend themselves.

The point is that they protected Europe from Asiatics (middle easterners since they were nearest) for centuries which was an important defensive role.

There's no fucking way you're honestly reading that stuff as the romans wanting to defend europeans from invading asians as opposed as Rome wanting to keep fucking foreigners from getting a strategic foothold in Rome's sphere of influence.
If you're for real, get help.

In that respect, yeah, disillusioning them is good, but it's also good to understand the context.

They may have had a concept of Asiatics, but defending Europe because they were Europeans was not the reason the Byzantines maintained the frontier.
Aside from what said, the only other reason for the Byzantines defense against the Arabs and later Turks, was that they were Christian, and their enemies were not, but this was far from the driving factor.

are you fucking retarded? of course they had a concept of Asia - it's a geographic concept

Indeed, it is geographic region where most of the invaders of Europe come from.

why are Turkish trolls always so Based? I hate Turks just as much as the next guy, but Turkish trolls here and on /pol/ always crack me. They are so over-the-top and self-aggrandizing and childish, and yet literally every time they get a mountain of (You)'s.

I wish I could shitpost like a Turk

Stop invading Europe

Imagine if Gondor was real, but it fell to the orcs instead.

The only identity Byzantium cared about was the christian one, which is why the 1st crusade was called after the plea of Alexios I Komnenos.

The whole of Asia minor and several parts of Syria were christian, and there were quite literally asiatic muslim invaders at the doorstep of the christian kingdoms, raping,killing and pillaging everything in their path after Manzikert.

The Byzantine-Ottoman alliance was not even real in any sense.

In reality the empire was divided between two claimants to the throne, the pro-western, and pro-Venice house of Palaiologi and the pro-Ottoman house of Katakouzinos.

John VI Kantakouzenos was struggling against John V Palaiologos for the imperial crown, and against the Serbian king Stefan Dušan. It was not an alliance, but rather a humiliating deal for the defence of the collapsing empire against teh Serbs imperial ambitions in greek Macedonia.

Turkroach courting the vile jews against the creators of western civilization, the Greeks, lol why am I not surprised?

Two birds of a feather as the saying goes, or like flies are attracted to shit. Both apply in your case, you vile insects.

Turk trolls have grown up well in the harsh conditions of roachposting and angry Euros.

>The only identity Byzantium cared about was the christian one, which is why the 1st crusade was called after the plea of Alexios I Komneno
WRONG.jpg

Byzantium definitely saw itself as an island of civilization surrounded by Barbarians. Just read up on their on history writings and how they refer to Western Europeans as "Barbarians."

>the tragic greek hero
their refugees started the renaissance too

they were aesthetic

>call everyone else barbarians
>doesnt eve wear shoes

This is trolling, right? It's clear from the tone.

The Levant and NE Africa didn't even lose Christians. Half of Anatolia only after WWI.

>overrated
>bunch of computer game kiddies autistically ignore any historiography that isn't outdated enlightenment butthurt in order to shit on it at any opportunity

Literally no on likes T*rks, at some point you stop trying to be popular and just act like a retard monkey for everyone to laugh at.

truth is that it's the hipster choice
>What? You like the Roman Empire? Pfft, I like the Byzantine Empire you probably never heard of it anyway

The Byzantine Empire was Asiatic though. Anatolians, Armenians, Syrians aren't European

Way to display your ignorance lmao.

BYZABOOS BTFO BY TURKMEN

>1071 entry into anatolia
>within a few decades nearly all of anatolia is subjugated except for coastal cities. it is not even the main turkish army that is behind these conquests, random tribal groups that entered the area are just sieging and taking castles.
>a billion crusades push back turkish tribes almost out of anatolia
>by 13th century despite the european help anatolia is now known as turchia(turkey)
>1453(382 years later) last parts of the greek realms are now fallen

>550 years to take out the greeks

picture related, it is (You)

Interesting history. Most of the hate it gets is from people being contarian, seeing how it's popular here

>We
>kicked you out of Anatolia

hehe if it makes you sleep at night thinking that

Yup you were kicked out.

Distance from Manzikert to Istanbul is 1453 kilometers
Did you know that?
also last Greek stronghold in Anatolia fell in 1461

>15 million people

¿

Anatolia and Southern Balkans during the middle ages consisted of approximately 15 million people

Where did those people go?

>Anatolia and Southern Balkans during the middle ages consisted of approximately 15 million people

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHHHA
*breathes in*
AHHAAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA
i like it when source is someone's ass
>Where did those people go?
Pic related.
Greeks were massacred like the subhumans they're.
The remaining lived in Anatolia till early 1900s.

Also are you Greek?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_of_the_Byzantine_Empire

Already told you that your source is someone's ass senpai. Warren Treadgold is a Byzaboo.
Even in early 1900s, Population of Anatolia was around 10 Mil. In 16th century it's estimated to be around 6-7 million

I hate agreeing with Turks but I think he's right. Constantinople was a series of tiny villages by the time the Turks got it

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Turkey#Population

1500 6,000,000
ty for proving my point

What point? What happened to the millions of people living in the territories of the Ottoman Empire?

In Ottoman Empire? They're fine.
Weren't we talking about Anatolia here?

What is that contraption? Is it a greek fire gun?

What are the best/most aesthetic Byzzy borders?

29 May 1453

Before you became hysterical I actually said "Southern Balkans and Anatolia".

I accepted your misreading and confined the issue only to Anatolia, which we both agree on was about 10 million people by the time the Seljuks arrived in the 11th century.

What happened to those millions of people? Did the Turks have gas chambers and a racist enough ideology to sustain genocide of such epic proportions without leaving a trace? If that was the case, from where did they then collect taxes and recruit soldiers? Did the Turks have an army of millions or an immigration influx on the level of America?

>I accepted your misreading and confined the issue only to Anatolia, which we both agree on was about 10 million people by the time the Seljuks arrived in the 11th century.
>10 million people
According to Byzaboos* not legit scientific sources.

If population of Anatolia was around 10 million (let's assume 6 million are Greek and 4 million are Armenian) then how come population of Anatolia was around 6 million in 1500?

a) Byzaboos are lying
b) Turks massacred 6 gorillion Greeks

> If that was the case, from where did they then collect taxes and recruit soldiers?
mostly Balkans
>Did the Turks have an army of millions or an immigration influx on the level of America?
yup.
books.google.com.tr/books?id=NnGvHLvUYEoC&pg=PA7&lpg=PA7&dq=200.000 turkmen tents&source=bl&ots=JyVx1xF0UF&sig=2Wm4wMf7Yw92-PZnu5kwYAO9d8E&hl=tr&sa=X&ei=uzGwU9WdMM-M7AaJ2oCIDQ#v=onepage&q=200.000 turkmen tents&f=false

according to this place in one single Anatolian district there were 200.000 Turkmen tents.

1 tent=1 family
1 family=4-5 persons
200.000x4=800.000
200.000x5=1.000.000
If one district had that much people, what about Central and other parts of Turkey? Eastern Anatolia became Kurdish after 1071, but what about other parts?

according to this book*

ppl like good stuff i guess

The distance from Manzikert to Nicaea is 1400 kilometers, that didn't stop the city from falling a decade after later. The whole of Anatolia was exposed to the Turks after 1071 and they were never really kicked out. It doesn't help that they lost all of Italy in 1071 never to regain it either. That year was a disaster for the Byzantines, their empire was a joke after that.

Holy fuck I love Roach trolls

>People didn't just overnight decide to look more into science, arts, and literature, it was caused by an influx of scholars from the Byzantine Empire
Wrong

>But Turks, as if it's a joke, ruled your ex-land and ex-capital
No, you didn't. As a matter of fact, you are so dumb that even after conquering us, you were not able to get rich as a people. All the administrative positions were given to Greeks, and the richest traders in the empire were Greeks, Armenians, and Jews. You were dumb animals that ruled only in title.

Μα τον Θεό, it's 1453 all over again.

Wp komsu.

Based turkposter btfoing byzzieboos scum

Which language does the anatolian population speak?

So you mean the ottomans weren't that bad after all? Letting conquered people to join your administration and giving them the opportunity to get rich and have position sounds pretty civilized, ain't it?

So what? At no point did I say anything against middle easterners in general nor did the Romans. Anatolians, Armenians, Syrians, etc aren't were all citizens for centuries. The issue is not with middle easterners that are citizens of the empire or that came peacefully. The issue is with invaders.

The middle eastern frontier of the eastern Roman empire played a vital role in defending Europe from invasion. When it was finally partially breached for the first time by the Muslims that directly led to the invasion of Europe. This led to a new situation where Europe was constantly exposed to Muslim assault. The Muslims invaded the Iberian peninsula and they invaded beyond their all the way to the loire river before being pushed back. They invaded Sicily, parts of Southern Italy, and even raided the outskirts of Rome.

The preservation of the northern part of the middle eastern frontier at least prevented them from also invading the Balkans. When that part of the middle eastern frontier was also decisively breached then the Turks invaded the Balkans as well.