Redpill me about the orthodox church

The orthodox half of Europe is poor, ruled by despots and criminals, and underdeveloped by modern standards.

>follow a different calendar
Yeh you know shit

>Implying Italy isn't ruled by the mafia

They only rule parts of it.

Ah I see, all the orthodox countries are completely 100% ruled by mafias, this is what you are saying.

The Russian Orthodox church probably did that quite a bit. No worse than the Catholics though.

Come home, heretics

Was meant for

Persecution of Armenian Apostolic church, tondrakians and paulicians

I suppose you could count the Russification policies

Most of those happened before the churches split though. Constantinople was pretty benign to the Paulicians later on too, although other Orthodox Churches weren't as much.

> orthodox church

Mostly, political shills who love to leech over the money of plebs, while shitting on every ideal provided by the bible.
Some priests at the bottom are ok.

t. C*tholic/proddie projecting

its the biggest traitor institution of all time. All Greeks who are in favour of it are either bluepilled or non Greeks who "became Greeks because they were christianized"
The sooner this rotten institution falls the better.

t. greek

Most of them are corrupt but they are still a huge component of our identity and recent heritage. Albeit a funny part of our culture.

Does the Orthodox church even bother evangelizing? Why have they stayed in eastern Europe and Russia this whole time, and why are they slowly dying out if they are evangelizing?

>our identity and recent heritage

please dont say the same about the Ottomans. Atleast many of the priests love our country inspite of the religion

>following a religion for the purposes of national identity.

The Ottomans didn't exactly contribute much other than food and bouzouki culture. The rest was just pillaged and islamised. 99.9% of noteable monuments in Greece were built before Turkish occupation. During the Ottomans, they allowed "religious freedom" meme but we never had the opportunity to flourish or build anything as good as Hagia Sophia. Even pic related is a 19th century Greek school that is in fucking Istanbul. The Ottomans left fuck all behind them as the shit-tier empire they were unlike the Austro-Hungarians, Germans, Russians, Brits, Spanish, French, Portugese etc...

you are right about that. But that still doesnt make the Byzantines Greek

I guess places like Croatia, Slovenia, Ireland and every Arabic country aside from Saudi aren't real then, as most of their nationalism is based on their religion.

> Sorry to hijack the thread, but anyone got good links for The Great Schism. Particularly interested in how if at all it contributed to the fall of Constantinople and the Empire.
It contributed negligibly. The empire essentially collapsed in 1071 with the simultaneous battle of Manzikert in Anatolia, the capture of Bari in Italy, and the rebellion of Georgi Voyteh in Bulgaria, etc. It only continued to exist on borrowed time. It ceased to be an empire and really just become Greece. When the Greeks out of no where decided to massacre the Latins, the empire was already a massive mess.

>take part in crusades
not a bad thing
Not a bad thing

>Spoke Greek
>Worshiped Jesus because he was largely accepted by Greeks in Rome
>lived in Hellas
>Promoted revival of Hellenic culture
>Studied ancient Greek philosophy, science, literature
>literally LARPed as heirs of Greece and were called Greek as well as Roman Empire by outsiders
What were they if not Greek/Roman?

>Spoke Greek
Its because Romans spoke Greek aswell and the bible was written in Greek because of the dominance of the Greek Kingdoms
>Worshiped Jesus because he was largely accepted by Greeks in Rome
Early Christians were a huge minority, until the got Imperial backing. Also Jesus was not Greek nor was the religion surrounding him.
>lived in Hellas
so did the Ottomans.
>Promoted revival of Hellenic culture
by closing philosophical schools, destroying statues, banning the worship of our gods and putting orthodox foreigners over greek pagans
>literally LARPed as heirs of Greece and were called Greek as well as Roman Empire by outsiders
dont know about that. I thought they always called themselves Romans. Most of the Emperors weren't even Greeks

They were the offspring and last remaint of the Roman Emperors

>our gods
Curb your LARP

The massacre of the Latins was a great crime

t. non greek "greek"

First of all, saying the Ottomans wuz Byzantines instead of Greeks is like saying Columbus was Native American instead of the Native Americans.
Second, "Roman" is NOT a race. Roman was an ethnicity compiled of conquered lands. Some Roman scholars spoke Greek but the majority Greek speakers were in Hellas and they were ancient Greeks conquered by Rome. Christians became a majority in Hellas which was a major reason for Constantine to move the capital and adopt Christianity.
There is literally no solid argument to connect Byzantium to it's invaders and there is no Reason for it to be solely Roman instead of both Greek and Roman.

>t. LARP champion wog cunt whose forebears probably got raped by Turks or Bulgars

keep throwing your nonsensical insults. Just remember that all of Ancient Hellas would say im right and you not

Well correct me if im wrong, but didnt the Sultan say that he is the continuation of the Byzantine Empire? Furthermore nothing about both of them is Greek.
>Christians became a majority in Hellas
After they massacred real Hellenes with the help of the Roman Emperors.
>Christians became a majority in Hellas
can you show me a source? From what i know Hellas "became fully Christian" by 700 a.d.

>There is literally no solid argument to connect Byzantium to it's invaders
Well the Byzantines weren't Greeks, just like the Ottomans. Thats the only connection they have

>instead of both Greek
Except their religion wasn't Greek. The Emperors weren't Greeks. The Empire consisted of many different nationalities.
Did you know that many of the "shitskins" (i dont want to refer of them as such, but just so you know what i mean) were imported by the Byzantines because they were Christians?

>Just remember that all of Ancient Hellas would say im right and you not
Shame we aren't living in ancient Hellas like you dream about then isn't it?

it truely is.

But how can Greece be Greece then? What we are doing now is real larping

Sorry Turk, but no amount of mental gymnastics will refute the fact that they themselves identified as Greek.

>Sorry Turk, but no amount of mental gymnastics will refute the fact that they themselves identified as Greek.
Like identifying yourself as a woman? They weren't Greeks.

>"Several signal events from the 4th to 6th centuries mark the period of transition during which the Roman Empire'sGreek East and Latin Westdivided.Constantine I(r. 324–337) reorganised the empire, made Constantinople the new capital, and legalisedChristianity. UnderTheodosius I(r. 379–395), Christianity became the Empire's officialstate religionandother religious practices were proscribed. Finally, under the reign ofHeraclius(r. 610–641), the Empire's military and administration were restructured and adopted Greek for official use instead of Latin.[4]
>Greek East and Latin West
>quintessentially Greek names
>Greek Language
Sure doesn't sound greek to me

You can't have them, Osman. No matter how hard you try, no matter how much shittier your own culture is, no matter your envy, you will always be thr invaders and destroyers of the Byzantine civilization. Let the people that actually honour and continue the traditions and lineage succeed them.

>quintessentially Greek names
that was very common in the East. Jews, Syrians, Anatolians had occasionally Greek names. Doesnt make them Greek
Furthermore many of the Emperors werent even Greeks. Like the Komninoi, the Makedonioi etc.
One emperor was called Philipp the Arab lol
>Greek Language
pure accident. Read

>mental gymnastics
Sorry senpai, no solid argument there

>calling an advocate of ancient greek culture Osman

lol keep your Byzantines. They were failures that cant compare to the Roman Republic or the Hellenic people

how long are people going to argue over the byzantines like this? why can no one just agree that they were Greco-roman

how am i wrong then?

>advocate of ancient Greek culture
Don't you have your own? Tengri and mongol throat singing n shiet? This isn't even pagan LARP. It's identity crisis pagan LARP

Because you're not right. You are acting the devil's advocate. Your thesis is completely condradictory to any reality just because that's how you like it.

They were Greco-roman. Mostot people agree. But every now and then you get a Turkroach or Bulgar trying to steal.

^he's right you larping retard

how are you engaging my arguments?

>the only way for me to ridicule you is by saying you are a Turk

μπραβο ρε. Οι Βυζαντινοι δεν ηταν Ελληνες kαταλαβαινε το

Theologically, it's the closest version to original Christianity in Europe ( nor counting the Coptic Orthodox or Monophysites ) and by its nature the OC is quite democratic and strongly conservative ( similar to American evangelical conservatives - so they're reaaaaally conservative ). Theological thought is quite interesting and more abstract and metaphysical, unlike with the various protestants ( so classical atheist arguments don't work, unless you are arguing with an ultra-conservative idiot who takes things literally ). Plus, there are multiple Orthodox Churches divided by nationalities ( Serbian, Bulgarian, Russian... ) so it's always been a strong bastion of ethnic nationalism ( despite the fact that is officially seen as "ethnophyletic heresy" ). Strongly opposed to individualism, liberalism ( that is "progressivism" ), materialism..essentially the OC is "red-pilled". Promotes heavily the humility of the individual and service to the collective ( while the Catholic church is dictatorial in that sense as it demands obedience to the Pope and to whatever he says ) so it is a fertile ground for producing mediocre individuals but is also huuuugely resistant at the same time.

I would recommend you to look up late Serbian patriarch, Paul, who led the SOC in the 90's and early 2000's. He's quite an interesting figure.

>Ούτε ένας τόνος
>Ουεί ουοζ Έλληνες μαλάkα
Kys Hajivasileiou

>essentially the OC is "red-pilled"
Is that why they begged the fucking Turks to save them?

>how are you engaging my arguments
The same way you curb mine and shift the posts with your own pseudo-historical revisionism

because they are corrupt as fuck and generations of cronyism have made it ineffectual.
Most of the so-called orthodox christians have no christian virtues and are just treating it at the same level of shamanistic traditions where giving money=miracle, holy water = magic cure, and the number of religious icons are expected to stack like fucking RPG loot

the τονος was an invention of the ancient Greeks so that non Greeks could better understand how words sounded.

Does that ring a bell (((christian)))? lol

It is my observation that the only ones who ridicule Ancient Greek culture are non Greeks themselves

>muh paper icons are materialism
>implying Catholicism wasn't always the whore of Babylon running the big pay2play system

everything i said is historically documented

>Σιτάσιον νείντεντ

In your dreams

red-pilled my ass, it actively fights higher forms of education, promotes ass-kissing and colludes regularly with the kleptocracies in E.Europe to sell their own countries and acquire more land.

Also look up st. Seraphim Sarovski ( not Swarowski ), Justin Celijski, Nikolaj Velimirovic if you can find English translation.

The language of Orthodox theology is something else though.. As a regular Joe you can't understand wtf are they saying as they are often poetic and dramatic in their language, filled with metaphores and comparisons and weird words or regular words used in completely different contexts and meanings.

I started understanding it after watching Jordan Peterson lectures, as he is somewhat familiar with it through Solzenycin. It's quite interesting once you get through the language barrier.

THat's just Whataboutism not a counterargument.

It can't be whataboutism if every single faith is corrupted

You need the tonos for differentiation of:
>αι
>άι
>αϊ
>ει
>έι
>εϊ
>ου
>όυ
>αυ
>άυ
>ευ
>έυ
And a lot more.

I never said being red pilled is good :) But what is red pilled about the OC is the view of the human nature that puts an accent on the collective, that it isn't holding any "hippie Jesus" views and that it isn't optimistic nor pessimistic in that regard. Red pills go against the postmodern nihilism and hippie crap - same as OC. But it also goes further and often ends up in homophobia, slight misoginy ( as it supports traditional male-female roles on the basic view that men and women are that much different ), nationalism ( pls tell me how this isnt "red pilled"? )...
The meme is true.

This.

Amen brother.

youtube.com/watch?v=F5EPs9EqIsc
youtube.com/watch?v=FCuvFu6DuFc
youtube.com/watch?v=ezaECk7cBQs

Being "red-pilled" is seeing the world for what it is, that's the entire meme, nationalism dosen't really come into it

God tells us in Romans that the atheist, the pagan, and the unbeliever have zero moral foundation, are inherently and irrevocably evil until conversion, and are spending a HUGE amount of energy every day to suppress their knowledge of being created by One True God.

Essentially nonchristians and reprobates are little better than animals and anything we do to bring them into the church or put them out our misery is justified by God.

still doesn't contradict what I said. It's basic human dialogue you autist.

My problem is it's all bullshit. Look at E.Europe and tell me if even those conservative values are being followed.

They believe that Jesus was born from anal sex. They are heretics of the first order.

It's just a meme bro

Yeah, just go around killing babies everywhere I go due to my inherrent evil.
meanwhile Marioara who went to italy to suck dicks for a living, abandoned her children.divorced her husband, and now 10 years has returned with a BMW bought from cum money and wears a giant golden cross and goes to church in a miniskirt is God's fucking gift on earth.

>goes to church in a miniskirt
Reprobate.

user the amount of would be ex-whores in the monasteries is staggering.

And while you may not kill babies you have zero basis for anything resembling an ethical and moral code outside the umbrella of God's protection. Your heart has been hardened to the Truth of God's Kingdom and many times over God has destroyed or commanded us to destroy those whose hearts he has hardened.

Ah, the early days of Veeky Forums where Constantine was the only shitposter of notice and the countless Africa/Nationalistic/Racebaiting threads were just at the beginning.

Hell, half the reason I use a trip is to overtake Constantine's post count.

user I am more moral than a fuck-ton of so called Christians i've known.
I know thieves, rapists, corrupt politicians and assaulters who regularly go to church and flaunt their belief in front of everybody.
Autistically following doctrine without using your God given common sense is the reason the Orthodox is going to shit.
The people above are the only kind that still advocate for you while the more educated ppl distance themselves and the old believers who had both virtue and belief are comforting themselves with a more personal relation to God like my grandpa who used to be in the Church choir but fell out with the priest when he wanted to turn the church into a fucking bazar for religious parafelia and my grandpa argued that there is nowhere in the bible where it says that the house of god has to become a fucking enterprise.
You self-righteous arrogant fuck.

>user I am more moral than a fuck-ton of so called Christians i've known.
Pride, arrogance, swearing.

>rapists thieves, etc.
Reprobates.

>accusations of mental illness
>atheistic rage
>implying I'm beholden to the Patriarchate rather than the Word of God.

Get yourself together, kid.

...

He's just announcing the Truth of God's Word and the supremacy of the gospels in all matters spiritual or moral.

I mean, if you wanna rebel and revolt against that, it's your prerogative.

I find it quite strange that people interested in "history" and "religion" are so concerned with a group being condemned as good or evil.

The validity of Christian faiths is based on the validity of Christ himself and not the actions of the people 2000 years since.

It's just a really juvenile way of looking at history and ranking societies, people, religions.

Schismatics that need to come back to the One True Faith

>I don't understand basic orthodoxy and will continue to tout my mortality and insult dumb Christians I know to display my ignorance.

Read a book?

Religion is behind in general let alone a religion that did not get reformed to adapt the modern ages.

This, successful heresy>orthodoxy

And i say that as an ex-orthodox myself

As I am a two year catechumen actually being Christened into orthodoxy next sunday I think I can actually add some beneficial content to this overrun thread.

The Orthodox Church is obviously one of the two Churches that split off from the original Apostolic Church. Depending on who you talk two the true Church is either the Orthodox Church because they decided to accept Christ as the head of the Church instead of one man, or the Catholic Church, which did the opposite.

We decide our doctrine based off of the original Ecumenical councils, and our hierarchy is independent in every country, with the Patriarchs meeting every so often for a synod.

Our ideas on salvation and Christian life differ from that of the Western faith. We believe in theosis (progressive salvation until achieving the likeness or image of God), and we combine both a faith and works narrative in a concept we call the Synaxis.

Icons are an image we use to put our minds in the right place to pray. We do not worship them, though some of them do heal people and work various miracles.

While many of the Old countries indeed suffer from corruption just like the every native countries native churches (Ex Catholics Rapists in Europe and Thieving Pastors in America), Orthodoxy is making its way into America in a big way. Many former protestants are coming back to the faith after realizing the shallowness of their own.

We base our lives around the teachings of the Christ, Apostles and Church Fathers.

Its true we don't evangelize in the western sense, believing we should witness more by perfecting ourselves and allowing others to see how we act, then spreading the "news" around while being total hypocrites.

Oriental Orthodoxy is the true Christianity. They preservered while Catholics turned their back on sincere dialogue.

The "Great Schism" between you and the Catholics was simply two over-dogmatized splinter groups squabbling with each other just like Protestants and Catholics later.

Oriental Orthodoxy is Orthodoxy. Our churches are barely even in Schism anymore. And btw why are y'all trying to rejoin us if you are the "true christianity"