my college history professor told our class today that the Japanese are mixed with white blood because the japanese isle was originally inhabited by indo-european peoples. I'm guessing he was talking about the Jomon but instead of surmising that they were just a separate group of people who happened to evolve to look somewhat more Caucasian in appearance, he insisted that they were of Indo-European heritage, and then went on to say that a lot of japanese rituals were actually stolen from the original european inhabitants of Japan. I thought We Wuzzing was a meme but it's fucking real guys what the fuck
We wuzzing is real. My professor used Spain's constant Moorish invasion as a sign western Europe was black and brown for centuries. She also combined this with southern Italians and olive skinned Romans. Funny thing is she's white
Jose Powell
my assertion that We Wuzzing should be stopped?
ok. it should be stopped because it's an incredbly disrespectful thing to do to another culture or nationality because it's like completely plagiarizing someone else's history and culture just for the sake of your own personal sick satisfaction of feeling like a distant genetic link did something that you personally consider worthy.
We Wuzzing is literally cultural appropriation and it's actually horrible and awful
Benjamin Rodriguez
>Suggestions of connections among Japanese, Altaic, and Dravidian were made by Hermann Jacobi in 1897 (Compositum und Nebensatz, pp. 106–131), who further noted structural similarities to Proto-Indo-European.[28]
>Bomhard (2008) suggests a differentiation of Proto-Nostratic by 8,000 BCE, the beginning of the Neolithic Revolution in the Levant, over a territory spanning the entire Fertile Crescent and beyond into the Caucasus (Proto-Kartvelian), Egypt and along the Red Sea to the Horn of Africa (Proto-Afroasiatic), the Iranian Plateau (Proto-Elamo-Dravidian) and into Central Asia (Proto-Eurasiatic, to be further subdivided by 5,000 BCE into Proto-Indo-European, Proto-Uralic and Proto-Altaic). Japonic is sometimes included in the Altaic sprachbund.
Jeremiah Brown
meanwhile, you may be denying the very existence of once actual persons. Did you even bother asking your professor how Indo-Europeans from 2000 BC onward influenced the Jomon? Or did your brain just tweak the fuck out because you let a college professor trigger you?
Josiah Collins
Why are you getting so upset? Also I did talk to him after class and he said he believes the Ainu were indoeuropeans because they used the swatstika as a symbol and that was of indoeuropean origin. It looks like he didn’t even know about the Yamato and the Jomon
Jeremiah White
>She Say no more bro...
Zachary Sanchez
I mean, what's the oldest swastika on the planet and where was it found?
Carter Green
>>The earliest swastika ever found was uncovered in Mezine, Ukraine, carved on an ivory figurine, which dates an incredible 12,000 years, and one of the earliest cultures that are known to have used the Swastika was a Neolithic culture in Southern Europe, in the area that is now Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, known as the Vinca Culture, which dates back around 8,000 years.
Jaxon Mitchell
>On the torso of the bird is engraved an intricate meander pattern of joined up swastikas. It's the oldest identified swastika pattern in the world and has been radio carbon-dated to an astonishing 15,000 years ago.
It's not we wuzzing when indo it comes to indo Europeans it is just facts because aryans were the literal master race and responsible for all human civilization
Luis Scott
>She there's your problem
Levi Gomez
>Single swastikas began to appear in the Neolithic Vinca culture across south-eastern Europe around 7,000 years ago. But it's in the Bronze Age that they became more widespread across the whole of Europe.
s-so when did the single swastika appear in Japan?
Jordan Reed
>the swastika is indo-european
Blake Mitchell
Does you professor think native americans are indo-european too?
Oliver Price
>the swastika isn't indo-european >oldest swastikas all found in pontic steppe or near it
Cameron Richardson
Yes actually to an extent. He said that he believes that because there were mined out areas in the americas before colonization and that the natives didn’t mine that he believes that some romans made the trip to America a long time ago
Joseph Green
Vinca wasn't part of the Pontic Steppe and Vincas weren't IE people. 6000-7000 before PIE so it's hardly relevant.
Robert Ramirez
What is he teaching you? Because he's full of shit and clearly doesn't know much about the subject.
Nolan Hernandez
it was used by non-indo-european cultures before they had contact with indo-europeans.
Kevin Morris
What school is this, and who is the professor?
Genuinely curious here. I want to look into this person, their qualifications, and their research history.
Brody Long
This. Refund the class my dude.
Adam Williams
you're all missing the point, the cultural influence that brought the single swastika to the East was probably Indo-European.
Seems like the Chinese introduced it to Japan btw.
Levi White
History teachers are weird dudes I had a high school history teacher who was a huge fan of Gavin Mccinnes and tried to teach some race realism in class. I have no idea how he still he has a job lol because I live in a very liberal area and this dude was alt right or now conservative or whatever
Gabriel Cooper
How old is the oldest swastika from China? When did they first contact the IE people? Harappans also knew this symbol. It's perfectly possible that it was invented independently by various peoples.
Hudson Lopez
SO YOUS BE SAYIN
Owen Torres
WE
Juan Lopez
there's a pottery shard ~2400 BC. >As a pottery graph of unknown provision and meaning the swastika-like sign is known in Chinese Neolithic culture (2400–2000 BCE, Liu wan 柳湾, Qinghai province). >The paired swastika symbols are included, at least since the Liao Dynasty (AD 907–1125), as part of the Chinese writing system (卍 and 卐) and are variant characters for 萬 or 万 (wàn in Mandarin, man in Korean, Cantonese, and Japanese, vạn in Vietnamese) meaning "all" or "eternity" (lit. myriad).
>Some of the earliest archaeological evidence of the swastika in the Indian subcontinent can be dated to 3,000 BCE.[51] associated with IVC
>The swastika was widespread among the Illyrians, symbolizing the Sun. The Sun cult was the main Illyrian cult; the Sun was represented by a swastika in clockwise motion, and it stood for the movement of the Sun.[89]
Major cultural contact associated with the Tocharians, second event ~1500BC.
Brandon Allen
I think it's possible Afanasevo or people linked with the migration from the Don-Volga initiated this cultural transfer with the IVC. >3300 BCE
Evan Myers
Turned out to be bullshit after futher research. Japonic and Korean are considered to be a completely different language family.
James Gray
And I guess before that they copied it from Neolithic Europeans? And they copied it from Paleolithic Ukrainians? I don't buy it. It's not some complex symbol.
Elijah Green
the original ainu were nordic before mixing with the mongoloid invaders. some of them still had blonde hair as recently as the early 20th century.
Colton Gonzalez
They were never Indo-European, you retarded Polack.
Grayson Ortiz
But IVC was independent in development of symbols until the later period of development, Mature Period which had the use of Swastika symbols and their trade was confined to the Middle East and Egypt, but then again there is a culture called the Hakra Ware Culture, that was also found around the area of IVC, only predating it by a couple of millenia, 8th or 7th millenia BC and they supposedly have swastikas as well.
Christopher Gonzalez
no they literally copied the single swastika from Old European culture. You can actually trace it's emergence through time from the Ukraine.
Camden Cook
>Hakra Ware culture >Hakra Ware culture is a material culture which is contemporaneous with the early Harappan Ravi phase culture (3300–2800 BCE) of the Indus Valley. >8th or 7th millenia BC
that doesn't really pan out
>IVC was independent in development of symbols until the later period of development sounds like some dogma to me
Ryder Sullivan
>You can actually trace it's emergence through time from the Ukraine Until we find another swastika in a completely different place.
Gavin Harris
you have to find a lot of them, and they'll probably be younger.
What's the oldest American swastika anyways? Little to no chance of old world contact over there, right?
This is a claim, you nor I know for certain what actually happend, so we are both arguing dogma so lets not go down that road.
>that doesn't really pan out
I am guessing that you were pointing to trade influencing the design of the swastika, but it could also be the interpretation of the Big Dipper's movement across the night sky during the four season that could be the origin of the Swastika, or it could be the idealized version of the Sun, or it could be the folding pattern of corded wares to make bags, there are a number of theories. But I highly doubt a individual originator of it.
Daniel Ramirez
Not gonna happen, people always like taking a contrarian position to conventional history or entertaining the idea of a "lost people" or other type of shit.
One time when i had to go to a reform school in the hood my film teacher tried telling the class that >the jews were in egypt >egypt is in africa >africa = black people >jesus was jewish >therefore jesus was black
Henry Brooks
>find a lot of them Why?
I don't know what's the oldest, but Indians call their swastika whirling log.
>could also be the interpretation of the Big Dipper's movement across the night sky that could easily be the early astronomical insight that lead to the formulation of the single swastika, and we should refrain from including patternwork swastikas for the sake of consistency.
>trade influencing the design of the swastika >it could be the idealized version of the Sun
Trade not influencing the basic design or idea so much as spreading it around. Sun and moon worship was a PIE thing, not sure about contemporary parallels.
>In 1956 Marija Gimbutas (1921–1994) first proposed the Kurgan hypothesis. The name originates from the kurgans (burial mounds) of the Eurasian steppes. The hypothesis suggests that the Indo-Europeans, a nomadic culture of the Pontic-Caspian steppe (now part of Eastern Ukraine and Southern Russia), expanded in several waves during the 3rd millennium BCE. Their expansion coincided with the taming of the horse.
Carson Moore
>whirling log
Kevin Hall
cause we've already found a lot of them so you'll need a fair number to really change the picture.
Colton Sanders
>Sun and moon worship was a PIE thing, So you are saying that the South American Inti is a PIE diety? Or even Ra from the egyptian myth? Or maybe Shamash of the Mesapotomian?
The PIE just associated sun with the chariot to identify movement like atet to Ra.
James Phillips
>Sun and moon worship was a PIE thing Not only PIE. It was pretty much universal.
We are talking about its origin. We found only one which is 12.000 years old.
Jason Parker
Looks like straight out of a Ghibli anime.
Nicholas Clark
If you're talking about the origin of a particular symbol you literally have to talk about the place it first took form.
Are those deities associated with the swastika? Cause those chariots have wheels.
Hudson Myers
And the place has nothing to do with PIE people which appeared only thousands of years later.
>Cause those chariots have wheels. Which is irrelevant because the oldest swastika symbols are much older than chariots.
Hunter Hughes
Weird thing happened the other day kinda like this but not as ridiculous. I went to my cousin's cousin's house, the African-American side of his family, and one of his cousins had random images of West African art on his walls and Pan-African flags around his room. Okay, no big deal. But then I look at his bookshelf and notice the books "Historical Atlas of Ancient Egypt", "Hannibal at the Gates", and "The Moors in Spain" (the latter having a clearly SSA man on the cover in Berber garb). Also I think I saw a CD cover with an African American rapper wearing one of those Egyptian head dresses. The memes are real.
Kevin Bennett
Even professional historians say a lot of shit. Every field is very specialized so people who are experts on ancient Greece (and usually just some aspects of it) don't know much about ancient China.
Austin Green
b-b-but girls can be smar-
Daniel Cook
>Ukraine has nothing to do with PIE people
>irrelevant Not if you're PIE religion. It seems like they picked up the single swastika from Old European cultures who used it a lot because of the influence of Vinca culture.
You'll have a hard time finding older examples than those found in the Balkans.
Kayden Kelly
>Historically, the design has been found in excavations of Mississippian-era sites in the Ohio and Mississippi River valleys, and on objects associated with the Southeastern Ceremonial Complex (S.E.C.C.).
>With the redefinition of the complex, some scholars have suggested choosing a new name to exemplify the new understanding of the large body of art symbols classified as the S.E.C.C. Participants of a decade-long series of conferences held at Texas State University have proposed the terms "Mississippian Ideological Interaction Sphere" or "M.I.I.S." and "Mississippian Art and Ceremonial Complex" or "M.A.C.C." Present theories suggest that the complex developed from pre-existing beliefs spread over the midwest and southeast by the Hopewell Interaction Sphere from 100 BCE to 500 CE.[2][11]
well, I guess the mound builders used it too.
Jaxon Martin
Sheeeeit
Thomas Smith
no its funny
Eli Anderson
>she >"""white""" 2 problems
Julian Cook
WUZ
[spoiler] Jomon aren't IE descendants [/spoiler]
Noah Ortiz
Look up the Japanese Bear worshipping caves. The rituals and artifacts found there in Japan are identical to those found in European bear worshipping caves. This means that those different people on opposite sides of Eurasia shared a common history and culture and likely common ancestors.
Easton Ward
Looks like an Australian Aboriginal with way more hair and slightly lighter skin. Is this what Proto-Asians looked like after they split from Proto-Melanesians/Abbos/Negritos?
Anthony Walker
Look up the theory that the Japanese are one of the lost tribes of Israel.
Josiah Flores
>The existence of an ancient bear cult among Neanderthals in Western Eurasia in the middle paleolithic period has been a topic of discussion spurred by archaeological findings.[3] Ancient bear bones have been discovered in several different caves and are believed by some archaeologists to be evidence of a bear cult during the paleolithic era. It was not the mere presence of these bones that intrigued archaeologists, but their peculiar arrangement.[4] Upon excavation, archaeologists on site determined that the bones were found arranged in such a way that it was not naturally possible.[4] Emil Bächler, a main supporter of the argument for the presence of an ancient bear cult, found bear remains in Switzerland and at Mornova Cave in Slovenia. Along with Bächler’s discovery, bear skulls were found by André Leroi-Gourhan arranged in a perfect circle in Saône-et-Loire.[4] The discovery of designs such as those found by Leroi-Gourhan suggests that these bear remains were placed in their arrangement intentionally; an act which has been attributed to H. neanderthalensis and is assumed to have been a part of some sort of ceremony.[4]
So Neanderthals invented religion, art, music, and glue. What else haven't we been told?
>The rituals and artifacts found there in Japan are identical to those found in European bear worshipping caves. I'm calling bullshit on that. We don't know what rituals were practices in relation to those bear finds, and it's still kind of disputed whether there actually was worship going on. And in no way are the artifacts tied to those places identical.
That being said, bear veneration is pretty common; I'm even aware of some finds of bear burials (and icons) in America. It's pretty easy to understand why, though. Bear are powerful animals that are almost morphological identical to humans. If you're going to worship something, it makes sense that it's going to be something you consider related to you.
Julian Howard
India.
Jackson Taylor
>maximum age of 0.54 ± 0.10 million years and a minimum age of 0.43 ± 0.05 million years nice try
Too bad you're wrong. It was Vinca culture, Balkans.
Austin Gray
...
Mason Mitchell
>>The paired swastika symbols are included, at least since the Liao Dynasty (AD 907–1125), as part of the Chinese writing system (卍 and 卐) and are variant characters for 萬 or 万
huh i always thought it was 乐 that was the swastika
Elijah Evans
What is this map even? Because if it's about IE expansion then it's wrong.
Jonathan White
>Look up the theory that the Japanese are one of the lost tribes of Israel. But user, there are signs in Japan that explicitly state Jesus came to live there. They even have his burial site.
Ian Thompson
What's that got to do with the contents of
Xavier Powell
How old is that legend? I think the theory that the Japanese are one of the lost tribes of Israel only dates back to WWII as part of the Fugu Plan.
Gavin Diaz
No one is we wuzzing as Indo-Europeans, that includes a vast amount of people stretching from Europe, to Central Asia and Northern India, and even places like the Middle East and North Africa, who exactly is he we wuzzing as? My guess is you're getting butthurt about the 'European' part of the name, yeah?
Kayden Perry
user I have a theory of how this epidemic started in the first place. >people talk about their history >some /pol/niggercomes along to tell them that they akshually they are not genetically 100% what they say they are >people start to go deep into wewuzzing >the cycle repeats itself
