Xiongnu Empire

Were they Turkic or Mongolic?

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dienekes.blogspot.com.au/2010/01/r1a1u2e-male-in-2000-year-old-mongolian.html
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.21242/abstract
theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?226288-Azerbaijani-(Terekeme)-GEDmatch-results
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

Probably both.
It was a confederation of tribes after all not a real empire with a dynasty at the top and conquered peoples at the bottom.

han

Mongoloids ruled by Iranics and Tocharians.

Confederation of Turkic and Mongolian tribes with some Iranic (yes i'm not memeing Modu Chanyu actually had an Iranic name his actual name was Batyr so this implies that Xiongnus had cultural interactions with Iranians) and some Tungusic people (although as far as i remember Modu Chanyu genocided them)


Life of Modu Chanyu is also similar to epic of Oghuz Khagan.

Xiongnu conquered Tocharians, they weren't ruled by them.

That's not what the digs from elite graves say, honey.

They're admixture people like most nomads in this place. This is really no that hard to understand.

Here we go again.

Those "elite graves" in Tarim basin are not Xiongnu graves but small oasis settlements' graves, the graves what modern scholars believe belong to Xiongnu usually don't have too many caucasoid corpses.

>Nope, Caucasian features were common between Turkic people, nearly all Turkic tribes have a big amount of Caucasian dna.
Since when is Batur iranic? The name Batur means "Strong / Fearless" and it is still used among Turkic and Mongolic people, but not one single Iranic tribes uses this name. it is like with Arslan. Western "professors" show the name Arslan as a Iranic name, while it is and was only used by Turkic and Mongolic tribes. The Huns were confederation of tribes, but they probably mostly Turkic and Mongolic. Turkic and Mongolic languages divided after the Hunnic times. The Chinese also describes the Turkic tribes after the decline of the Xiongnu as the descandet of them.

"Ey yo boi, we wuz Iranic Nordic Thors an shiiet"

>Tarim Basin Mummies.
>Xiongnu elites.

dienekes.blogspot.com.au/2010/01/r1a1u2e-male-in-2000-year-old-mongolian.html

>We analyzed mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA), Y-chromosome single nucleotide polymorphisms (Y-SNP), and autosomal short tandem repeats (STR) of three skeletons found in a 2,000-year-old Xiongnu elite cemetery in Duurlig Nars of Northeast Mongolia. This study is one of the first reports of the detailed genetic analysis of ancient human remains using the three types of genetic markers. The DNA analyses revealed that one subject was an ancient male skeleton with maternal U2e1 and paternal R1a1 haplogroups. This is the first genetic evidence that a male of distinctive Indo-European lineages (R1a1) was present in the Xiongnu of Mongolia. This might indicate an Indo-European migration into Northeast Asia 2,000 years ago. Other specimens are a female with mtDNA haplogroup D4 and a male with Y-SNP haplogroup C3 and mtDNA haplogroup D4. Those haplogroups are common in Northeast Asia. There was no close kinship among them. The genetic evidence of U2e1 and R1a1 may help to clarify the migration patterns of Indo-Europeans and ancient East-West contacts of the Xiongnu Empire. Artifacts in the tombs suggested that the Xiongnu had a system of the social stratification. The West Eurasian male might show the racial tolerance of the Xiongnu Empire and some insight into the Xiongnu society.

What? Tarim Basin has nothing to do with the Xiongnu. The time period and location are different. What exactly do horsenigs have to do with a massive desert 300 miles to the southwest?

>blogspot
>2000 years ago
I hope you realize when the Tarim mummies were buried.

That study is about Xiongnu, and it proves that their elite graves had Indo-European Y-DNA (R1a) as somebody earlier ITT claimed.

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.21242/abstract

Yes, just like everyone in Asia.
The difference is the percentage. Tarim were 85%+. Xiongnu were closer to 15%. Han Chinese are 10%.

Irrelevant.

It could’ve been a case of elite domination, it’s not too difficult to imagine some rogue Scythian tribe going East, encountering Mongoloids and teaching them their ways in exchange for rulership over them.

>R1a)
R1a is very common between Turkic tribes.

Nope, the Scythians were the reason why the early Huns had to move to the east. Also, the Scythians were Eurasian, not fully European, just like all other Turkic people.

>Also, the Scythians were Eurasian, not fully European, just like all other Turkic people.
Scythians weren't Turkic. They were Eastern Europeans. Same as modern ones.

>>R1a
Yes, 99% of R1a in Asia is of Indo-European origin.
>R1a is very common between Turkic tribes
Because many Turkics are assimilated Indo-Europeans that mixed with Mongoloid women.
>the Scythians were the reason why the early Huns had to move to the east
I said rogue Scythian tribe, their Y-DNA proves that the Xiongnu elite originated from Scythia.

Also Scythians weren't Turkic, they were an Indo-European people.

You sure you didn't miss this part?
> Artifacts in the tombs suggested that the Xiongnu had a system of the social stratification. The West Eurasian male might show the racial tolerance of the Xiongnu Empire and some insight into the Xiongnu society.
It's like pointing to a Gallo-Roman's remains and saying the Romans were Celts.

Considering the Chinese didn't consider the Xiongnu as "Hongmao" (Red-Head barbarians.) their ruling clan might be something else.

>Tarim Basin Mummies.
>Xiongnu Elites.
Please look at OP's Map again.

That part is only there because the Xiongnu commoners were Mongoloid for the most part, so they assume the ruling clan must've been too originally. However we do know that the ruling clan of Göktürks had Indo-European Y-DNA, and they were the immediate descendants of Xiongnu.
That image depicts the Xiongnu Empire.

>That part is only there because the Xiongnu commoners were Mongoloid for the most part, so they assume the ruling clan must've been too originally.
We don't even know what the Xiongnu looked like since all the Chinese wrote about them is they were barbarians. Pretty much it. One horse riding nigger was the same as another to them.

And the Xiongnu Empire originated in 209 BC way up North of the Han China. While the Tarim Basin mummies (who were older than the Xiongnu Empire,dating back 1800 BC) are in Xiyu (Literally "Western Regions" Modern day Xinjiang).

Jesus Christ is Central Asia the Egyptian WEWUZ of whites or something?

>We don't even know what the Xiongnu looked like since all the Chinese wrote about them is they were barbarians. Pretty much it. One horse riding nigger was the same as another to them.
You're right, but we do know that Xiongnu were probably the origin point of Turkic people, and their descendants mostly contributed to the diffusion of Indo-European Y-DNA.
>And the Xiongnu Empire originated in 209 BC way up North of the Han China. While the Tarim Basin mummies (who were older than the Xiongnu Empire,dating back 1800 BC) are in Xiyu (Literally "Western Regions" Modern day Xinjiang).
Why do you keep bringing up the Tarim Basin mummies? You do know that they weren't the only Indo-European incursion to East Asia, right?
>Jesus Christ is Central Asia the Egyptian WEWUZ of whites or something
Except that Indo-European expansion happened, you can't compare those two.

Yes, I can. The Indo Euronigs that went to Europe are and became forestniggers entirely different people than the Indo Euronigs that stayed and became the Steppeniggers.

Modern Europeans have the most genes from the OG steppedudes, Northern Europeans in particular. Also the Xiongnu R1a in all probability came from Scythians, a people that came from the Sintashta culture, which was an offshoot of the European Corded Ware culture.

WE

>Particularly interesting are the tombs in the cemetery at Heigouliang, Xinjiang (the Black Gouliang cemetery, also known as the summer palace of the Xiongnu king), east of the Barkol basin, near the city of Hami. By typing results of DNA samples during the excavation of one of the tombs, it was determined that of the 12 men there were: Q1a*(xQ-M120, xQ-M25, xQ-M3) - 6, Q1b (M378) - 4 (two separate tombs), Q*(xQ1a, xQ1b)-2 (unable to determine subclade).
WUZ
>In another study, three human remains were identified as Q-M3. Summarising the data from available evidences, it is concluded that the tombs belong to representatives of the Xiongnu/Hunnu nobility/conquerors.

KANGS
>A study of 2010 [137] analysed six human remains of a nomadic group, excavated from Pengyang County. From the mtDNA, six haplotypes were identified as three haplogroups: C, D4 and M10. The analyses revealed that these individuals were closely associated with the ancient Xiongnu and modern northern Asians. The analysis of Y chromosomes from four male samples that were typed as haplogroup Q-M242(all Q1a1-M120)

There's no proof those people were the supreme ruling class, and considering how unsuccessful hg Q was with Turkics in comparison to hg R1a I find it unlikely that they were.

They were Indo Iranic you dipshit

Indo-Iranian is a subset of Indo-European, and no they had nothing to do with modern Iranians genetically if that's what you're implying.

This, same with nearly every east central asian polity there was in history
kys retard

Fuckin this


Umm, xiognu started by IE, the months later revolted against their masters once they reached critical locust mass

That's like a eskimo/Turk claiming they were Armenian.

Yep, Any mong/Turk who claims to be Scythian/tocharian is larping. It's like Eli Rodgers claiming to be Icelandic. Turks just show their Eli complex

Ok, I can explain why us Turks gravitate to white ancestry, even though we are part of the mongoloids that genocided them. It simply shameful to acknowledge our bow legged, pinhole eyed ancestors. We aspire for something better, and so the beautiful Scythians fit the purpose

The ones in Asia got genocided and now murderous Turks wewuz as them

Ruled China was Caucasian tribe (there Khan described as with grenn eyes and red cheek, more evidance available)

according to Chinese ancient historical annual, Xiongnu originally started as a Nordic tribe with red hair and blue eyes like "Wushun". And, Jie, which was a branch of Xiongnu, also described as with high Nose Bridge, and "deep" eyes. After the collapse of their ruling to Han, the Jie people was distinguished easily because of their Caucasian feature and slaughtered (more than 200,000 victims). The historical work of the later dynasties also described the remained Xiongnu people as "Long nose" and "yellow hair". Until Tang dynasty, the "Qi Hu" which is the offspring of the royal Xiongnu people, still called "Hu tou Han se" which mean's they adopt the Chinese tongue, but still "foreign" feature.

Some people believe the Xiongnu are Mongolian race, because the Roman historian said the Hun people who invaded were"brown skin, stocky body, slanting eyes" which are typical Mongolian trait. But, actually, the Hun who invaded Europe 5th century was not the descendant of original ancient Royal Scythian Xiongnu. The White Scythian Xiongnu who created the Xiongnu were later ethnically cleansed by their mongoloid underclass, who Scythian Xiongnu trained to become part of their army.

The contemporary scholars affirm they are the identical tribe just because the pronunciation of "Hun" and "Xiongnu" are approximately the same. And there is some relationship between their languege. I also want to point out that around the 5th and 6th century, there's another branch of "Hun" ruined the Persia and Northwest India, that Branch was called "White Hun" The Persian historian said that thier feature were different from "Hun", with white body. Hence, it seemed that, they were also Caucasian.

the Xianbei were also orignally white Scythians, and suffered the same fate as the Xiongnu. Xianbei people were called "Bai Lu" means white invader (thief). And in the Great Work , I found the following story--The Emperor Of Eastern Jin, Jin Ming Di (Shima Shao), was with yellow beard and hair, because his mother was a Xianbei female. Once he went to inspect his troop without notice, And the warriors all considered him as Xianbei people, then chased him as enemy. The folk songs at that time said, "Huang tou Xianbei jin Luoyang"--Xianbei is with "yellow head", it is quite possible that "yellow head" referred to their yellow hair and beard. Later on the white Xianbei leading componenent, like the Xiongnu, got ethnically cleansed and replaced by mongoloid.

Scythians, also known as Scyth, Saka, Sakae, Sacae, Sai, Iskuzai, or Askuzai, were a large group of Iranian[1][2][3][4] Eurasian nomads who were mentioned by the literate peoples surrounding them as inhabiting large areas in the central Eurasian steppes from about the 9th century BC until about the 4th century AD (Sarmatians)
Alans survive to this day
the Xiongnu name a cognate of Scythian, Saka and Sogdia, corresponding to a name for Northern Iranians.[24][71] According to Beckwith the Xiongnu contained a leading Iranian component when they started out, but more likely they had earlier been subjects of an Iranian people and learned from them the Iranian nomadic model.[24]

In the UNESCO-published History of Civilizations of Central Asia, its editor János Harmatta concludes that the royal tribes and kings of the Xiongnu bore Iranian names, that all Xiongnu words noted by the Chinese can be explained from a Scythian language, and that it is therefore clear that the majority of Hsiung-nu tribes spoke an Eastern Iranian language

Xiongnu art is harder to distinguish from Saka or Scythian art

IE originated on the steppe you gargantuan faggot.

*months = mongs

WE WUZ KANGZ N SHIEEEET

WE

Huns confirmed Indo-European. Thanks Veeky Forums.

There was only one group of horse jockeys- the nordic, the rest copied them and are all just cheap imitations. Much like the cheap knockoffs of the West we have today

Scythians/yamna predate Turks by eons.
Scythians were spreading horse technology in 2000bc while Turks were in their igloos somewhere north of Korea.

Scythians spread far and wide into Korea and taught the Eskimos Turks the ways if IE. Big mistake. That marked the end of white presence in Asia

...

Asian Huns were BLACK you retards

From the way you talk I can conclude that you are either not a turk or that you are a total cuckold who shouldn't be taken seriously.

WE
>complains about africans saying that they were egyptian
WUZ
>says that he is more indo-european than iranians which are the closest to the original population
KHANZ
>implies that every civilization was ruled by people who in some way are connected to themselves
AND SHEEEID
>lets his wife/gf get fucked by black bulls while he watches

Why do people want to WE WUZ Tocharians when they were literally genocided? What's this fetishism with pretending to be descended from losers, the same with dixiefag neo confeds

>iranians closest to the original indo-europeans
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

they weren’t the only indo-europeans in east asia, boyo

>people who stayed closes to their homeland are in some way more mixed than the population that went to europe and mixed with all the locals

Do you understand how retarded you sound?

except that modern iranians are assimilated west asians, most modern europeans on the other hand have indo-european Y-DNA and up to 50% indo-european autosomal DNA

>autismal dna

I know that you have that user.

>>people who stayed closes to their homeland are in some way more mixed than the population that went to europe and mixed with all the locals
Indo-Europeans came from the Ukrainian steppe
[spoiler]which is in Europe[/spoiler]

Where do you think is further western europe or Iran?

What's with Nordicists claiming that all illiterate Steppe niggers responsible for the destruction of civilization were Indo-Europeans?

And that ONE R1a found somewhere is a proof their entire elite was Indo-European? Your agenda is getting stupider every day.

Many Western Europeans such as Spaniards do have very diluted Indo-European ancestry, but others such as Scottish and English people have it considerably. Modern Iranians have practically none, though, and their dominant Y-DNA is West Asian J2 rather than Indo-European R1a.

What are your sources?

>Haak et al. (2015) conducted a genome-wide study of 69 ancient skeletons from Europe and Russia. They concluded that Yamnaya autosomal characteristics are very close to the Corded Ware culture people, with an estimated a 73% ancestral contribution from the Yamnaya DNA in the DNA of Corded Ware skeletons from Germany. The same study estimated a 38.8–53.5% ancestral contribution of the Yamnaya in the DNA of modern Western, Central & Northern Europeans, and a 18.5–32.6% contribution in modern Southern Europeans; this contribution is found to a lesser extent in Sardinians (7.1%) and Sicilians (5.9–11.6%).[26][21][web 2] Haak et al. also note that their results "suggest" that haplogroups R1b and R1a "spread into Europe from the East after 3,000 BC."
In other words, the distribution of R1b and R1a (especially R1a) usually correlates with Indo-European admixture. Modern Iranians have predominantly non-Indo-European Y-DNA indigenous to West Asia, as you can see from this image.

Yakuts have 70% N1c

They’re not the bulk of Turkics, they’re very few and inhabit some isolated Siberian hellhole

If these gened came from the east like this suggests than slavs should have more of it than western europeans.

Slavs aren’t a homogenous group of people, and neither are Western Europeans. Scottish people have more Indo-European admixture than Montenegrins and ethnic Russians have more Indo-European admixture than Spaniards, for example.

The real European divide is north-south, not west-east.

So what does this matter then?

Shit tier haplogroups
check mine

>being the literal mongrel of the world

J2 R1b R1a Q N and L are obviously central Asian haplogroups lmao

Name one european population who isn't.

J2 is some Middle Eastern nigger shit.

...

>Ireland is over 80% R1b
>Turkey doesn't have a single haplogroup above 30%

So we can see a rise of it in europe in the coming decades?

20% is still a lot you faggot.

...

>claim it's central Asian
>highest frequencies are in Turkey, Lebanon Syria and the Caucasus
You sure showed me

Bosnian and Kosovo inbreds are despite all the memes about being spawned by Turks the most inbred people in Europe

You can be both inbred and racemixed.

>the caucasus
Azerbaijan and Northern Caucasia obviously have c. asian admixture
>lebanon
fair enough
>Syria
Those are Turks in Syria aka Turkmens

J2 is more common in Central Asia than in Middle east

Q, R1a and N are definitely Central Asian, G1 might be too since it was found among Scythians
The rest not so much

>Azerbaijan
>central Asian admixture
t. Koksal Baba
Azeris are Iranian so Middle Eastern

What about turkmenistan en uzbekistan you niglord.

Even then there were people living there before the slavs came.

R1b

R1b is extremely high in Turkmenistan though

Yes they do have C. Asian admixture though this depends on the Azeri. I have seen an Azerbaijani with 19% mongoloid admixture and seen ones with 5-10%

>I have seen an Azerbaijani with 19% mongoloid admixture and seen ones with 5-10%
Did you actually see their genetic results or are you just guessing like a retard?

It looks like R1b is celtic.

R1b is Hittite in Turkey

>Did you actually see their genetic results
I saw the genetic resuts
theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?226288-Azerbaijani-(Terekeme)-GEDmatch-results

>hittite
they went extinct lmao

What about Bashkirs then?

Then inner anatolia should have more than the coasts.

That doesn’t mean their lineages did

Not sure if they have share the same subclade, R1b in Turkey might be Central Asian also but it can’t be said for certain because of historic Hittite settlement and they were mostly R1b. R1a, Q and N on the other hand didn’t exist (or was practically nonexistant) in Anatolia prior to Turkic invasions.

Ancient Anatolians were probably replaced by a Caucasian hunter gatherer ethnicity from Caucasia