"In the Spanish people there is a mixture of Gothic, Prankish and Moorish blood. One can speak of the Spaniard as one would speak of a brave anarchist. The Arabian epoch — the Arabs look down on the Turks as they do on dogs — was the most cultured, the most intellectual and in every way best and happiest epoch in Spanish history. It was followed by the period of the persecutions with its unceasing atrocities. The Russian priest was not hated ; he was merely despised for the parasite he was, hanging on at ali costs to hisjob for what it would bring him. The Russian Princes, unlike the German and Spanish, were never slaves of the Church. In Spain the clergy is hated and will very soon be wiped out! Ali who have vvatched Franco's progress say that he is head- ing for another revolution. The rest of the world cannot be separated from Spain by a Chinese wall. Sooner or later the explosion must come. Here, too, we see a fundamental truth: The parasites, in their avarice, do not realise that they are destroying the very ground which is their foundation. The Church ofto-day is nothing more than a hereditary joint stock company for the exploitation of human stupidity. If I had not decided in 1936 to send him the first of our Junker aircraft, Franco would never have survived. To-day, his salvation is attributed to Saint Isabella!"
Poor stormtards don't realize that the Fuhrer was quite modern when it comes to religious matters...
The whole of the "Table Talk" is a fascinating read.
>Here, too, we see a fundamental truth: >The parasites, in their avarice, do not realise that they are destroying the very ground which is their foundation.
Really made me think
Jason Bell
It's a proven fraud.
Connor Miller
t. Neo-Nazi Christcuck Degenerate
Xavier Ramirez
>believes any confirmation bias he reads
Lucas Gonzalez
t. Neo-Nazi Christcuck Degenerate
Anthony Adams
This is quite eye opening really. I'm not really aware of Hitler's opinions on historical matters -whether they're absurd or not- but they do seem to give a more interesting view of his persona. I'm going to download the book right now, and thanks for sharing that quote OP.
Daniel Garcia
>believes any confirmation bias he reads >unironically uses the term "neo nazi"
Elijah Scott
So this is how retardation spreads. With thunderous bumps.
Jason Myers
Yes. Now go away please
Logan Martin
I'm not 100% convinced of its authenticity, and certainly it has a complex history. However, it's a bit hard for me to imagine that such idiosyncratic discussions would have been effectively forged. The topics and style seem consistent with Hitler's general manner. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if parts of it were inauthentic. Is there any concrete reason to consider it a fraud?
Michael Martin
Neo Nazi's are degenerates. Real Nazis accept that Hitler was aware of the Jewish nature of Christianity.
>idiosyncratic discussions would have been effectively forged How? Isn't that inherently less trustworthy and suspect? Basically you're saying whenever someone does something out of character it's more likely. I don't know how you could think that.
>The topics and style seem consistent with Hitler's general manner
This is the chief problem I have with it. If you want to see what I mean, pull up a copy of Mein Kampf in German and look at the flow. It's a very iconic thing missing from table talks, but it shows up in Zweites Buch, which I also think is a cold war forgery.
Interesting. Well, the question then is, what is the most reliable edition or set of translations? Which parts can be counted on more, which less? >How? Isn't that inherently less trustworthy and suspect? I mean idiosyncratic in general, not idiosyncratic with reference to Hitler. My argument is that some of the stuff in the Table Talk is so particular, going into minutia of 1930s politics and opinions about various minor figures, that it's hard for me to imagine it being forged, since to do so effectively would require quite a talent. >This is the chief problem I have with it. If you want to see what I mean, pull up a copy of Mein Kampf in German and look at the flow. It's a very iconic thing missing from table talks... That would make sense, though, given that the Table Talk is supposedly the work of secretaries summarizing what Hitler says, rather than word-for-word transcripts. In any case, it's an interesting discussion. I would certainly wish to find out the truth of what is authentic in these texts, since they may contain so much historically interesting detail.
Colton Bennett
Mein Kampf wasn't really written fully by Hitler. I think it was edited by some of his friends because the original work was really incoherent.
I think historians mostly just complain about English and French translation, not about the original German Table Talk.
>Between 1941 and 1944, the period in which the Table Talk was being transcribed, a number of Hitler's intimates cite him expressing negative views of Christianity, including Joseph Goebbels,[57] Albert Speer,[58] and Martin Bormann.[59] However Nazi General Gerhard Engel reports that in 1941 Hitler asserted, "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so."[60] Similarly Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber reported that after speaking with Hitler he "undoubtedly lives in belief in God ... He recognizes Christianity as the builder of western culture." For me it seems like Hitler didn't care about Christianity and mostly just lied about his religiousness. One thing is certain, he wanted to control the Church in Germany and more or less destroy it in Poland.
Christian Ross
>My argument is that some of the stuff in the Table Talk is so particular, going into minutia of 1930s politics and opinions about various minor figures, that it's hard for me to imagine it being forged, since to do so effectively would require quite a talent.
I'm not trying to sound like a dick, but for anyone already entrenched in that atmosphere I'm not sure that anything you consider niche would be niche to someone more involved in the period. What were you thinking of? I don't see how it would require talent either, since period articles and books aren't especially hard to find and extract from. My brother got a book from half a century ago talking about economical fascism in Italy and the surprising improvements they made. That was niche to me, but if anyone made a Table Talks: Mussolini it would probably be basic information.
>secretaries summarizing what Hitler says, rather than word-for-word transcripts
True that is hard to account for.I don't want to take the side of willful ignorance or ague against more reading, it sounds like you're balanced enough to figure things out. GL mate, post any juicy findings.
Lucas Mitchell
Catholic clergy was one of the most persecuted groups. Hitler's view on the Church was like his view on business. It can exist but only in service to the state.
Jose Clark
>It can exist but only in service to the state. The state being society, not government.
Aiden Johnson
Too bad it starts after Barbarossa. I would love to read about his private talks before it. At least in official speeches before June 22nd USSR was the greatest ally.
Nathan Cruz
I know. It's the way socialist and some mixed economic systems operate. Things belong to the public. Which just means that it doesn't belong to anyone outside of a certain close group of political elite.
Colton Gonzalez
It's not just the political minutiae, it's also stuff like the following: " I was quite astonished recently at the amount of drink the Finns put away; it seems that the further North one goes, the more drink people can carry. Aden, I suppose, is the most infernal heat cauldron on earth. I have quite made up my mind that nothing will induce me to travel through the Red Sea — I should die of heart failure ! Prince Arenberg, one of our earliest adherents, has told me many interesting tales of pioneering days in our colonies. He was once sentenced to twelve years' penal servitude — and served six of them — for having killed a nigger who had attacked him ! The answer to people who asserted that we were not good colonizers, he said, was that with the methods we tried to employ we could not get any colonies at all! And his opinion was based on a very considerable amount of thought. Arenberg used to drive one of the oldest Benz cars I have ever seen; and in it he once insisted in driving me to Kempten, when I was on my way to Switzerland. On the level the old car ran reasonably well; but at the slightest sign of a hill it blew its head off, and we were in grave danger of sticking fast. He had to change gear all the time, and so we trundled along hour after hour. At last we came to the downhill part of the journey, and there the car flew along at at least thirty miles an hour! And the man was a multi-millionaire; but in this respect he was as obstinate as a mule! In the East it will be all over once we have cut their Communications to the south and to Murmansk. Without oil they are finished! In the West it will be all over when once we are able to transfer even half of our forces to France. And that we shall be able to do as soon as we have smashed the armament- and food-producing centres in Russia. "
Caleb Nelson
Cont. Some of it so particular that it's hard for me to imagine a forger coming up with it. I guess it might be worth while to cross reference as many of the specific references as possible with known facts.
Hudson Reed
If anything the one who "forged" it was Bormann who projected his own opinions on Hitler.
Aiden Nelson
I mean, what sort of forger would come up with stuff like the following? "Our peasants always lack ready money because the ground at their disposal is too small for their needs. I have often wondered whether it would not be a good idea to re-introduce some sort of tithe system, under which the peasant could pay his taxes in kind. As things are, the middle-man gets for his potatoes, for instance, three or four times what he pays the peasant for them. It would therefore be to the peasant's advantage to be able to pay his taxes in potatoes rather than in money. The advantages accruing to the State would counteract the loss of revenue from taxation. In most professions income can be judged in terms of money, but this does not hold in the case of the small farmer. German agriculture will benefit greatly if we introduce new regulations to govern farming based on the potential revenue of the property." I have a sense that a forger would be more likely to paint with epic strokes, and put words of Wagnerian tragedy or Satanic evil in Hitler's mouth, not various sundry ideas about agricultural taxation.
Christopher King
So kind of like debunked Hitler's diaries. The bigger problem with the Table Talk is that it's long overdue for another more accurate translation.
Aiden Harris
Hitler was correct about the Anglos as well: >Nowadays certain small peoples have a greater number of capable men than the whole British Empire. >In England, the masses are unaware of the state of servitude in which they live. But it's a class that ought to be ruled, for it's racially inferior. And England couldn't live if its ruling class were to disappear. Things would go utterly wrong for the common people. They can't even feed themselves. Where would one try to find a peasantry? In the working class? >What is happening in the Far East is happening by no will of mine. For years I never stopped telling all the English I met that they'd lose the Far East if they entered into a war in Europe. They didn't answer, but they assumed a superior air. They're masters in the art of being arrogant! >The wealth of Great Britain is the result less of a perfect commercial organisation than of the capitalist exploitation of the three hundred and fifty million Indian slaves.
Aaron Phillips
It's not entirely forged. There are genuine transcripts but then there are also passages deliberately doctored by Bormann.
Angel Brown
T-that's what de Jews want you to think!
Matthew Price
Why nazis want it to be forged? Because Hitler doesn't come off as very religious?
Carson Brown
Because it's Bormann's pagan wankery. Bormann, Himmler and Rosenberg were headfucked pagan LARPers who loathed Christianity and went out of the way to demostrate it, while Hitler was at very worst just a lapsed Catholic. It's completely reasonable to think Bormann would forge Hitler's anti-Christian claims even though that went against literally every public speech or action Hitler has ever conducted.
Andrew Evans
Table Talk is a completely self-contradictory book, especially when it comes to race. I'll give examples:
While discussing the German musical talent as opposed to England, Hitler says it's thanks to Germany being "mixed" with Slavic and Latin blood while England is "purely Germanic", but in another passage he mentions the English all belong to an inferior race except for their tiny upper class stemming from Niedersachsen. In one passage he calls the Czechs Slavs, in another passage he's adamant they're not Slavs but "Mongolians". At one point he mentions how Czechs are historical enemies of German that must physically perish, but at another point he's all giddy that they're accepting German rule and what great addition to the Reich they were. At one point he says that Turks would be a more worthy reliable ally than the Bulgarians, because of Bulgarian affection towards Russia and their Orthodox Christianity. But at another point he says that Bulgaria is a great and reliable ally AGAINST the Turks!
So either the Table Talk is just a collection of completely random and spontaneous thoughts with no bearing on official policies, or it's an outright forgery. Either way it shouldn't be taken seriously.
Nolan Collins
DUDE, HITLER CAN NEVER CHANGE OPINION IN 20 YEARS, DUDE LIKE, I BELIEVE MEIN KAMPF IS A RELIABLE SOURCE WHEN IT WAS PARTLY WRITTEN BY HESS AND OTHERS BUT THE TABLE TALK GOES AGAINST MY BELIEFS SO IT'S A FORGERY LOL !
Jace Baker
Also, get
Daniel Barnes
To the degree that it's an authentic account of Hitler's talk, I think it's worth taking seriously because it gives an insight into his thinking.
Daniel Smith
Get lost reddit.
Jacob Ramirez
I think forgery would be more coherent and non-contradictory. Hitler had a tendency to ramble and his opinions about things were often changing as were his plans.
David White
If that would be the case, why make a big deal over something that's basically just goofing around in front of his buddies instead of an actual policy? It would be like publishing your Veeky Forums shitpost history after your death and saying you were dead serious and principial about everything you posted.
Isaac Diaz
Mein Kampf was being published during Hitler's lifetime and Hitler never said it's forged or inaccurate. Whereas the Table Talk was published years after Hitler died and the statements in the book just magically happen to mirror the ideas of Bormann who was tasked with compiling the diaries.
Kevin Walker
>why make a big deal over something that's basically just goofing around in front of his buddies instead of an actual policy?
It's not "a big deal".
Xavier Robinson
>Table Talk is a completely self-contradictory book Hitler was the definition of a muddled, contradictory thinker who had not systematic coherent set of beliefs. The only thing he believed in was a notion of race struggle and survival of the fittest
