Avars

Who were the Avars? Can't find much about them, or their culture.
All i could find was the they got BTFO'd by Charlemagne, they were nomadic and that their capital was known as "Ring of the Avars".

Why did they disappear, and why was their culture lost?

Were they just Hun-Larpers?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avars_(Caucasus)
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pannonian_Avars
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xionites
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alchon_Huns
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huns#Origin
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uar
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wusun
youtube.com/watch?v=tgXhU3ndr0o
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashina#Analysis_of_written_sources_and_traditions
twitter.com/AnonBabble

Bumping for interest

absorbed into hungarians

But the avars were in modern-day Hungary before the Magyars turned up, how could they be absorbed into Hungarians, when hungarian culture didn't even exist yet?

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avars_(Caucasus)
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pannonian_Avars
Which ones?

The Pannonian ones.

>Proposals by scholars include Caucasian,[6] Iranian,[15] Tungusic,[16][17][18] Hungarian[19] and Turkic.[2][20]

>According to mid-20th Century physical anthropologists such as Pál Lipták, human remains from the early Avar (7th century) period had mostly "Europoid" features, while grave goods indicated cultural links to the Eurasian steppe.[35]

>Cemeteries dated to the late Avar period (8th century) included many human remains with physical features typical of East Asian people or Eurasians (i.e. people with both East Asian and European ancestry).[36] Remains with East Asian or Eurasian features were found in about one third of the Avar graves from the 8th Century.[37] According to Lipták, 79% of the population of the Danube-Tisza region during the Avar period showed Europoid characteristics.[35] (Lipták used racial terms later deprecated or regarded as obsolete, such as "Mongoloid" for North East Asian and "Turanid" for individuals of mixed ancestry.[38])
Well it seems to me like a third of them were mixed race Eurasians (what else is new), while simultaneously 79% of them demonstrate europoid traits.

Assimilated Indo-Europeans with a Mongoloid component, as were most early Turkics such as their Cumanian cousins.

What makes you think they're necessarily unrelated?

Think they might have any connection with the Huns? The reason i'm trying to learn more about the Avars, is to try and make a connection to the Huns, since we don't really know anything about the huns.

You mean Slavs

>we don't really know anything about the huns

People have been trying to figure out the Huns since forever my man. There is vast scholarship going back hundreds of years, and the issue is far from settled. It's kind of hilarious, really, with all kinds of different people claiming they wuz Huns n shit. Check 'em out.

The Huns were a meme nomadic confederacy (along with a couple of roped Germanic tribes), and a group Avars are suspected to ride along with the HUns.

>Click a video about Huns.
>Turks, Mongols, and Hungarians going MUH ANCESTOR.

Khingila was a Hephthalite, not a Hun.

>They were part of the four major "Hunic" states known collectively as Xionites or "Hunas", being preceded by the Kidarites, and succeeded by the Alchon Huns and lastly the Nezak Huns. The Sveta Huna or White Huns who invaded northern India are probably the Hephthalites, but the exact relation is not clear.

lol

>exact relation is not clear.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xionites
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alchon_Huns

>The Hunas may have been linked to the Huns that invaded Europe from Central Asia during the same period.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huns#Origin

>Ammianus Marcellinus, who completed his work of the history of the Roman Empire in the early 390s, recorded that the "people of the Huns … dwell beyond the Sea of Azov near the frozen ocean".[9][10]

>The 6th-century Roman historian Procopius of Caesarea (Book I. ch. 3), related the Huns of Europe with the Hephthalites or "White Huns" who subjugated the Sassanids and invaded northwestern India, stating that they were of the same stock, "in fact as well as in name", although he contrasted the Huns with the Hephthalites, in that the Hephthalites were sedentary, white-skinned, and possessed "not ugly" features:[17][18]

>The similarity of their ethnonyms is one of the most important links between the two peoples.[1] The Buddhist monk Dharmarakṣa, who was an important translator of Indian religious texts in the 3rd century AD, applied the word Xiongnu when translating the references to the Huna people into Chinese.[25]

>Due to the devastating defeat by the Chinese Han dynasty, the northern branch of the Xiongnu had retreated north-westward; their descendants may have migrated through Eurasia and consequently they may have some degree of cultural and genetic continuity with the Huns.[22]

>The Huns practised artificial cranial deformation, but there is no evidence of such practice among the Xiongnu.[33][page needed] This custom had already been practised in the Eurasian Steppes in the Bronze Age and in the early Iron Age, but it disappeared around 500 BC.[34] It again started to spread among the local inhabitants of the region of the Talas River and in the Pamir Mountains in the 1st century BC.[34] In addition to the Huns, the custom is also evidenced among the Yuezhi and Alans.[35]

>muh Huns

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uar

>According to some scholars the Uar later merged with the Xionites,[1][2] to form the Avars (or Varchonites) who later settled in Pannonia,.[3]
pic unrelated

Ok, ok. I submit defeat.

They were Nordic

>In response to the migration of the Wusun (who were hard-pressed by the Rouran) from Zhetysu to the Pamir region (Chinese: 葱嶺), Khingila united the Uar (Chinese: 滑) and the Xionites (Chinese: 狁) in 460AD, establishing the Hepthalite dynasty.

who would have thought Khingila was relevant to the Pannonian Avars? Crazy.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wusun
>literally: "grandchildren/descendants of the crow/raven") were an Indo-European semi-nomadic steppe people mentioned in Chinese records from the 2nd century BC to the 5th century AD.

>Around 176 BC the Yuezhi were raided by the Xiongnu, subsequently attacking the Wusun, killing their king and seizing their land. The Wusun prince was subsequently adopted by the Xiongnu ruler and made a Xiongnu general and leader of the Wusun. After the Yuezhi around 162 BC were driven into the Ili Valley of Zhetysu, Dzungaria and Tian Shan formerly inhabited by the Sai (Scythians), the Wusun resettled Gansu as vassals of the Xiongnu. In 133-132 BC, the Wusun drove the Yuezhi from the Ili Valley and settled the area. They subsequently became close allies of the Han dynasty and a powerful force in the region for several centuries. Pressured by the Rouran, the Wusun are last mentioned by the Chinese as having settled the Pamir Mountains in the 5th century AD. They possibly became subsumed into the later Hephthalites.

and the cycle continues

>"Among the barbarians in the Western Regions, the look of the Wusun is the most unusual. The present barbarians who have green eyes and red hair, and look like macaque monkeys, are the offspring of this people."
>when only a few number of skulls from Wusun territory were known, the Wusun were recognized as a Caucasoid people with slight Mongoloid admixture.[42] Later, in a more thorough study by Soviet archaeologists of eighty-seven skulls of Zhetysu, the six skulls of the Wusun period were determined to be purely Caucasoid or close to it.[42][45]

wowee guys

> Why did they disappear, and why was their culture lost?


The Pannonian Avars were destroyed by the Franks and resettled up the Danube river around and westward of modern day Vienna, in Austria.

The Balkan Avars were destroyed by a Croat invasion that cleansed the Balkans from most of them, while those that survived were forced to live under submission to the Croat.

In fact, the last recorded mention of them is by Constantine VII where he mentions Avars in Croatia.

They were BLACK bulls

>Well it seems to me like a third of them were mixed race Eurasians (what else is new), while simultaneously 79% of them demonstrate europoid traits.

Not really, the Avar empire was multi-ethnic, so it's not surprising if there are many remains with Europid features

>many
a significant majority of
It's not surprising nearly a third were of """mixed race""" considering their place of origin. I'm sure they looked more like each other than not, the admixture seems at least in significant part to have been much older given the length of steppe culture, and relatively homogenized.

Keep in mind this is over 700 years before the Mongol Empire under Genghis.

>Avar empire
ehh, can't find it on a map

>a significant majority of

And? The Avars were a ruling class. You seem to think that every inhabitant of the Avar Khaganate was an Avar which leads you to the erronous conclusion that "79% of them demonstrate europoid traits".

>ehh, can't find it on a map

The term isn't that uncommon

>the erronous conclusion that "79% of them demonstrate europoid traits"
I don't really think you know how to spell erroneous. I also doubt your ability to substantiate the assertion you know who the ruling class of the Avars were, and especially what they looked like.

>Lipták used racial terms later deprecated or regarded as obsolete, such as "Mongoloid" for North East Asian and "Turanid" for individuals of mixed ancestry.[38]

???

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...

...

...

It's not about the ruling class of the Avars, the Avars were the ruling class. Again, it's not surprising that the majority of human remains shows Europid characteristics since the majority of the population weren't Avars.

I've always thought Central Asian and Plains Native American clothing and art seemed kind of similar. Wonder if it has anything to do with comparable climate and lifestyle?

Unironically they have the same ancestry.
>inb4 WE
Amerindians are literally Siberians

What makes you think the ruling class were Mongoloid? Central Asia was mostly Caucasian prior to Mongol invasions.

It was an Avar graveyard to my knowledge, and the Avars themselves weren't a monolith.
youtube.com/watch?v=tgXhU3ndr0o

>The Avars were likely a losing faction previously subordinate to the (legitimate) Ashina clan in the Western Turkic Khaganate, and they fled west of the Dnieper.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashina#Analysis_of_written_sources_and_traditions

>Subclade of clan Ashina: R1a-Z93, Z94+, Z2123-, Y2632-.
>In this research, six R-Z94 applicants, who identifies themselves as descendants of the Ashina clan and whose ancestors are known to be originated from Gaochang (高昌), are listed as the descendants of the Ashina, with four of them from China having a surname Shi(史) and two of them from Pashtun Afghanistan and Bulgaria.

Seems like the Ashina clan who originally had dominion over the Avars can be connected strongly to the Saka-Wusun (where Saka refers to Scythians, or Iranians of the eastern steppe).

>In this area, during the formation of the tribe (III c. BC – 460 AD), the Indo-European population was predominant and, consequently, the Iranian and Tocharian languages. In ethnogenesis of Ashina, that which also follows from the testimony of the Chinese sources, also participated the element of Hunnish childbirth. After the defeat of the state Tszyuytsyuyev in Hexi, the Ashina fled to Gaochang, where after 460 AD, they fell under the rule of Juan-Juan and were relocated to the southern spurs of the Altai. Ashina were artisans, and they were mainly engaged in metallurgy.

there's even a Hun connection.
>branches of the Ashina clan moved westward to Europe where they became the kaghans of the Khazars,[25][26]
wew