Should Europeans embrace their ancestral Indo-European faith once more and reject Semitic religion?

smoke weed
be happy
dont be a dick (NAP non aggression principle) to people

They should have the right to do so while being mocked as much as any religious person deserves to be, no more, no less.

...

haha, autism

From Augustine: The pagan wedding

What if we remove the Jewish stuff out of Christianity and retcon Jesus as the son of Zeus, Jupiter or Odin rather than Yahweh's?

No. Religions are dumb

WE

>Most of Western Christianity esp. Catholicism is Paganism with a semitic veneer.

Catholicism is devil worship - paganism is worship of God.

How retarded do you people have to be to think God somehow changed 2000 years ago when you have evidence this planet is billions of years old?

youtube.com/watch?v=lFPM4ICNy14

>like just don't be a dick lmao
Wow, you just btfo every moral philosopher ever, why didn't they come up with this end all ethical system?

First of all, Christianity has far more Hellenistic elements than paganism. Almost all philosophers of the time accepted a proto-Christianity, despite knowing nothing of Jesus (If you will tolerate a biblical reference, Acts 17:16-34). Greek philosophy became a cornerstone of Christianity very quickly, and remains so to this day.
Secondly, Jesus was killed by Jews, and all of Christendom has recognized this and detested the Jews since time immemorial. Even in early Christianity, the Jews were the greatest enemies of the Christians.
Besides this, Paganism just has no basis in fact, unlike Christianity. We know Jesus to be a real person, and we have several documents by roman officials confirming his death and, occasionally, documents confirming his resurrection and miracles.
Why do you even like paganism? Is it just the aesthetic? Some wish for a connection to ancestors you are dozens of generations removed from? Because you dislike the jews? Because you hate God or his church? Enlighten me as to why worshiping Bumfuck mclightningcock is so superior to worshiping the God who actually cares about you and has powers beyond being able to impregnate anything that moves.

Yum yum, thanks for vomiting /pol/'s mental gymnastics down my throat.

Odin is a psycopomp while Zeus is a thunderer so it doesn't work well. Ancient Greek/Roman historians even mention that the "Germans" worshiped Hermes and Saturn/Kronos primarily (I.E Odin and Freyr).

>Besides this, Paganism just has no basis in fact, unlike Christianity. We know Jesus to be a real person, and we have several documents by roman officials confirming his death and, occasionally, documents confirming his resurrection and miracles.
What kind of bullshit is this, there's been several claims by historians trough the ages that Odin was real with compelling evidence when tracking the heritage of old Scandinavian kings, doesn't mean Asatru is true.

>We know Jesus to be a real person

No, we don't; it is very probably Jesus existed but there isn't any facts which confirm his existence.

Alexander the Great however did factually exist (go look under Tyre and find a man-made mole to see proof of his existence). Alexander was declared a god within his lifetime.

Tell me why I shouldn't worship Alexander the Great user? He's more factual then Jesus, achieved more for Hellenic cultural dominance than any other figure in history, and didn't even need to deal with the Jews because he was so powerful, they just accepted that he was their king now without even so much as him stopping by Jerusalem.

From all your arguments you should worship Alexander the Great.

Ha you fool. Only one race could have devised such perfect archetypes:they were Lithuanian.

This pitching of Indo-European paganism against that of the Near East looks attributable to Varg Vikernes' revisionism.
I would however be open to considering the shift with Christian ethics being a form of cultural denial for that of what were their new Semite acquaintances.
Modern western ethics are probably inseparable from Christian heritage though. The western calendar may be the most conspicuous aspect of it and the thing keeping western society attached to it.

>No, we don't; it is very probably Jesus existed but there isn't any facts which confirm his existence.
I mean I really don't want to take sides but there's far more literary evidence of Jesus than Alexander.

>/pol/
never been. If you are referring to the fact that I referenced Christianity's historical rejection of Jews, I was simply attempting to appeal to the general antisemetic feel of the thread. I really couldn't care less about the Jews. It's just a reply to the accusation that Christianity is semetic.
>Mental gymnastics
In what way?

>This pitching of Indo-European paganism against that of the Near East looks attributable to Varg Vikernes' revisionism.

What revisionism? I seriously doubt Varg was behind the revival spurred on since the 60's....

Would be cool, but IE paganism lacks the structure and allure that Semitic religion has.

>structure and allure that Semitic religion has.
Great post, couldn't agree more. What would you do to fix it? Any takers to this challenge?

Yes. Of course.

Look what Semitic religion did to us over the long run.
We'd have a functioning society without it.
Democratic values etc. weren't originally Christian.

Its true that Odin might have been a mundane king once, but we have eyewitness accounts of *Actual Miracles* for Jesus, rather than speculation that he maybe might have existed and probably was really cool but probably wasn't a god

Those miracles are also found in "Signs and Wonders" by Tacitus, performed as witnessed by Vespasian. Hate to go all Zeitgeist here, but if you read the Nag Hammadi's the apostles clearly constructed a religion from Zoroastrian and Gnostic concepts from the area.

Well first of all, I would make the afterlife more alluring. In Greek paganism, you just kind of mill about in Hades. Oh boy. To me, the promise salvation and everlasting bliss is way more appealing.

Another change I would make is have a permanent priest class, that proselytizes, makes commentaries, and inspires holy wars.

>the apostles clearly constructed a religion
very interesting, but why the fuck would they do that?

So that people would live their lives like they told them to.

Interesting, seems basic but it really is missing the fundamentals when we talk about it. What would the priest class look like? Casual? Wizard robes? somewhere in between? I mean the temples are an obvious aesthetic hold over so that's not hard to imagine. The milling about was actually pretty funny. Not an expert in Greco-Roman religion

>eyewitness accounts

Point me to those 1st hand accounts, not copies made decades later. Also you double nigger the apostles don't even get their own fuckingfacts traight about what happened with Jesus.

Why do I get the idea that you value politics more than faith?
And no there is no reason to worshipsome superheroes on top of a mountain.

I mean it seems like it. There are two theories, one is about how Jews subverted Rome and the other is about how Rome subverted the militant Jews. There's probably more to that story, but all I know is that they built a social enterprise and it worked.

So they were totally willing to be put to death for saying things they didn't believe just so that people would follow an ideology they didn't believe in? Why didn't they just start a regular mystery cult and not get killed?

Christianity started as mystery cult you dumb nigger

I never said they didn't believe in what they were preaching. They thought that the world would soon come to an end and their apocalyptic evangelicalism was the only way to save man.

>So they were totally willing to be put to death for saying things they didn't believe just so that people would follow an ideology they didn't believe in?

Consider this: In Acts it's about a rebellion the unbelieving jews cause against the "brethren", which here means Christians, and two of the apostles are stoned. They pretend to be dead in order to escape the city. It strikes me that the same people who pretended to be stoned, or lied about it altogether in order to displace the jews(since they go to the regional governor and try to have them repressed), are the same people who would lie about Jesus being arisen.

Literally false, the only accounts of Jesus are twelve guys spamming and samefagging and everyone copies them. Hell the roman texts don't even explicitly reference Jesus as a real human rather that there are cults that consider him real.

...

Yeah but why would they believe that if not for Jesus being real, doing miracles, and all that shit?
Mystery cult as in:
>We worship [roman god] and don't [taboo] and do [ritual] and love contributing to the pax deorum and don't get executed!
not
>Fuck those gods, fuck the pax deorum, martyrs for lyfe
learn your terminology. Mystery cults were totally accepted by rome, but Christianity was just a cult which refused the roman pantheon altogether and the romans hated them.

There wasn't any real agreed upon doctrine in Greek/Roman paganism, things evolved all the time. One of the things the priest class would need to do is decide on what is official doctrine. To really proselytize and spread the faith, the priest class would not be casual. In my opinion, the Greeks could not accomplish this since they lacked an actual empire. Roman paganism could have been spread by the sword, but they had the idea of incorporating any type of faith that suited the state in the advancement of their interest instead of spreading their own beliefs. Even before Christianity, the Roman pantheon was spreading and taking on other culture's beliefs such as the Magna Mater. However, this stems back to basically the foundation of Rome, where they took any idea that made them stronger from anyone.

>t. Greek/Roman myth is my favorite subject.

>The letter of Lentulus is regarded as apocryphal[2] for a number of reasons. No Governor of Jerusalem or Procurator of Judea is known to have been called Lentulus, and a Roman governor would not have addressed the Senate in the way represented.[3] However, the Deeds of the Divine Augustus list a Publius Lentulus as being elected as a Roman Consul during the reign of Augustus (27 BC-14 AD).[4][5] Also, a Roman writer would not have employed the expressions "prophet of truth", "sons of men" or "Jesus Christ". The former two are Hebrew idioms, and the third is taken from the New Testament. The letter, therefore, gives a description of Jesus such as Christian piety conceived him.

Origin Edit

The letter was first printed in the "Life of Christ" by Ludolph the Carthusian (Cologne, 1474),[6] and in the "Introduction to the works of St. Anselm" (Nuremberg, 1491).[7] But it is neither the work of St. Anselm nor of Ludolph. According to the manuscript of Jena, a certain Giacomo Colonna found the letter in 1421 in an ancient Roman document sent to Rome from Constantinople. It must have been of Greek origin, and translated into Latin during the thirteenth or fourteenth century, though it received its present form at the hands of a humanist of the fifteenth or sixteenth century.[3] Christopher Mylius, the 18th century librarian of Jena, stated the letter was written in golden letters on red paper and richly bound, but lost.[8]

The 19th-century scholar Friedrich Münter believed he could trace the letter down to the time of Diocletian, but this is generally not accepted by present-day scholars.[9]

Typical christcucks, you seem to have forgotten the rest of the article? I suppose you'll magic up some miracles as long as I put the cameras and recording devices away right?

You learn your terminology you dumb cunt. A mystery school or cult was simply a group that had its own initiations into forbidden or hidden knowledge (baptisms and the revelations of Jesus). The only reason the romans hated them was because they didn't perform the official roman state sacrifices (basically taxes). Christians were just retarded sovereign citizens of the roman era. I suggest you read something other than the Bible before you come here and spew your tired garbage.

How centralized were they? It seems like it'd be more of a Catholic situation with a Pope or a tightly knit council rather than the Orthodox situation of separated Patriarchs. If it survived today, what would it look like is my real question?

The "sharing" or incorporation of gods from other pantheons is not unusual and went in all directions. Why not hedge your bets?

Not a Christian, I'm a a larpfag

There wasn't just one kind of mystery cult in Ancient Rome. Some were accepted mystery cults because they had actual religious mysteries that "casual" attendees weren't allowed to participate in i.e. the Eleusinian's Mysteries, others were actual secret cults that weren't accepted by the Roman religious authorities at some point in Rome's history.
Both had mysteries, but they certainly weren't accepted.

As for the first part of your post, hero worship? Christians love to resort to calling the Bible a metaphor when someone points out flaws in its logic, so why not apply the same label to Christ in lieu of actual proof?

>uses Alt right imagery that borrows from Germanic paganism

So you're a fucking retard then? Semitic anything has no place in European society.

Not centralized at all. For example, some people took part in the cult of Dionysis, whereas most did not. There was some agreed upon stuff, but each city had their own stuff going on. For example, Athens had the vested interested in making Athena seem like a badass amazing goddess. Again, there was literally no class of priests that sought to advance their brand of Greek paganism across Greece and abroad.

I'm not so sure it could really survive today, what with our understanding of natural events. However, maybe it could have evolved into Zeus and hte lesser gods being the "Gods" who has a hand in all of our destiny.

>Ah shit, I forgot to pay homage to Ares, so I got beat up randomly in the street for my wallet

>Alt right imagery

It's funny you've given it legitimacy but hate it

I don't hate it, I don't why someone on the alt right would larp as a christfag, they're not compatible

I meant I'm not a Christian, but how do you mean they're not compatible? Let's explore this. It seems like you're working on an idea.

Yet, Christian beliefs/saints are based off of MANY pagan beliefs and gods.

christianity is a Semitic religion that has simply collapsed in ability to articulate authenticity in today's age. It's retarded American Protestant sects, utterly cucked and defanged Catholics or euro churches which ordain women and take down crosses so as to offend people. It's completely lost its relevancy and ability to guide people. We need to start again and look to the past to build forward. These ancient pagans inspired one renaissance and will inspire another. Besides these issues I agree with Evola and other occultists that initiatory experiences and castes within a faith are extremely important.

Corrupted and kiked up yes. Modern art like spraying paint of out my asshole onto a canvas is based off and evolved from classical art. Doesn't mean asshole paintings deserve the same pedestal

No.
Your an extremely edgy contrarian looking for meaning in an industrial society of anomie if you think otherwise

So why are clearly pagan traditions treated the same as Christian?

You mean they "translated" foreign gods into equivalents their readers would be familiar with? gee whiz...

>Besides these issues I agree with Evola and other occultists that initiatory experiences and castes within a faith are extremely important.

I keep hearing about this Evola guy but I don't have his books and honestly I have a lot I'm trying to read before I get to him. What's the deal with this nerd? So how would a religion be built up now using histories lessons? Sort of like the other discussion on Greco-Roman paganism up there, what could be done? Grassroots initiations?

Idk ask retarded christfags who allow blatant heresy to flourish.

Evola is a massive meme but an important one. I'd recommend hanging out in /x/ and start reading into Euro occultism/Hindu theology and then getting back to him. Not really sure how to do it, I'd start with something like a mystery school and go from there. I'm part of Asatru, my group meets on a guys land where we have ceremonies make offerings etc. start there and grow organically I suppose

>I'm part of Asatru, my group meets on a guys land where we have ceremonies make offerings etc. start there and grow organically I suppose

Badass. Will go read up on /x/.

Yeah.

Excellent bait.

No, they should reject everything that doesn't appear to have any factual basis.

>Idk ask retarded christfags who allow blatant heresy to flourish.

But this type of thing is at the foundation of Christianity. They are not separate.

>tfw the pagans were right

We did have Thor's tree until christfags came along

Which part is bait? Please be specific.

The whole thing. You're literally describing the apostolic and early Imperial church's syncretism with that post.

Then you answered you own question retard.

Why? Any indication that those gods are real?

right, that's what user asked for.

...

The success of the Roman Republic and Empire.

ja, slutt å tilbe jöder

he asked for how it could have worked, what do you want from me?

It's very curious how no lightning came to smite the Christians after the only evidence that Thor existed was chopped the fuck down. I would think that destroying the only actual proof of a god would warrant that god actually doing something.
>not because the roman empire was just good at war
>not because a suitable habitat was needed for christianity
shit proof desu. Eyewitness accounts or gtfo.

And where is the Semitic God's smiting non-believers now that he is being debunked?

Good luck with that. In any case active religious participation is falling. Also, most information on old beliefs are dead, forgotten a long time ago.

Because that's what cults do? Ever heard of Heaven's Gate, People's Temple?

>debunked
First of all, He's not. nobody in this thread has been very effective at debunking Jesus or God. Nor has any modern science come close, really. Give me one proof against Him.
Here is a proof against the pagan gods, though: nobody has ever seen them. They've seen Jesus, who is God, but they haven't seen Thor in any meaningful sense.

>Eyewitness accounts or gtfo.
There are literally thousands. Sulla meet a satyr when he returned home from Greece. The Destroyer spoke from the world's naval and wrestled Herakles for his tripod at that very spot. Just read the most basics of the basics and you will see that the literary proof for the existence of the Hellenic Pantheon is just as extensive as the Christian justification for their God. The only difference is that the Gods' will can be clearly seen in the real world.
>not because a suitable habitat was needed for christianity
>more than half of the Empire's inhabitants end up living under Islamic rule
Hmmmm I guess your God doesn't pick sides between your cults.

>First of all, He's not.

I see, and where's your definitive proof that supports his existence, and that modern science isn't close.

>proove he doesn't exist!

That's your best argument? Prove Odin doesn't exist. People have claimed to see him.

Why would they go back to something they abandoned voluntarily

>Give me one proof against Him.
There is no concrete proof that God the Son actually existed. Therefore God does not exist.

>they abandoned voluntarily
Not going to deny that Christianity had a lot of willing converts, but you're delusional if you think that nobody was forced into being baptised or killed because of their pagan faith.

People didn't know that Pontus Pilate was a governor of Judea for years either

So we aren't talking about the ass backwards autism swamps of Finland here. We are talking about the former Roman empire which controlled 70% of Europe.

There is historically attested religious violence against pagans in whatever area of Europe you want to narrow it down to in order to make your cult look better.

>Well first of all, I would make the afterlife more alluring. In Greek paganism, you just kind of mill about in Hades. Oh boy. To me, the promise salvation and everlasting bliss is way more appealing.
So, it's all just larp after all. Nobody will believe in a religion made up by some user on a message board.

but that's literally what early christian theologians did to make christianity appealing.

>Prove Odin doesn't exist
alright. Odin's existence hangs on the existence of Yggdrasil, what I'm assuming to be a physical giant tree (maybe its metaphysical I dunno). Where, then, is Yggdrasil? Same goes for the palace atop mt. Olympus. Heaven is for sure metaphysical, so you can't catch me on that.
>prove God exists
I merely said he wasn't debunked. Stop moving the goalposts.
>There is no concrete proof that God the Son actually existed
The Bible. The book of Luke, who was originally a Hellenic Jew and completely doubted Jesus, was assembled entirely from the eyewitness accounts of people who encountered Jesus, and it lines up well with all the other synoptic gospels.

Odin is debunked in the same way that "God" is debunked. Can't prove either way, which is what you were going for. As for Olympus, you only saw it it if the gods wanted you do

>The Bible.
>literary source

Christfag please.

They aren't even trying anymore