Is Layne Norton natty?

I said FFMI not BMI, fatty.

Shouldn't you be deleting YouTube comments?

>fit survey
>most common age group 17-19
>most common training age sub 1 year

I'm not saying he's natty but
The original Kouri study actually says an FFMI of 26.6 is attainable for genetically gifted naturals. The "25.4 FFMI limit" comes from pre-steroid Mr. America's in 1939-1959, but there is no proof that those competitors represented the peak of genetically possible muscle mass. "A sample of 20 Mr. America winners from the pre-steroid era (1939-1959), were calculated and they had a mean FFMI of 25.4." The mean was 25.4 which meant there were natural lifters with a higher FFMI.
If we compare other lifters, Ilya Ilin in the 2012 Olympics was a 94 and stands at 5'9". If we assume 17% body fat, he gets a FFMI of 25. Does that mean he's natty even though he got tested positive for doping? Lu Xiaojun stands 5'8" and weighs 77. Even if we assume pro bodybuilder-levels of shredded at 4% body fat, he only has an FFMI of 24.6. Is that dude natty? The FFMI scale isnt reliable for determining true fat free mass unless you are fairly close to contest lean, outside of that, things like water retention can wildly skew it. Layne could be around 12-16% bodyfat. I found some stats of his and assumed bf% of 8 and yet gave me 25.53. So i'm not sure how the 26.8 was calculated.

I just did a calculation myself and got an FFMI of 23 after only 2 years of lifting....doesn't seem entirely accurate does it?

ffmi is the most unaccurate & worthless assessment out there. It's all based off estimates from shit 70 years ago with no actual data.

A natty at 220lbs can easily have a ffmi of 27+
But the same guy cuts and his ffmi will drop to 23.

>tfw normies put 5rm 1/2/3/4 for maxes
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>if someone has less muscle than the most you can pack on natty they're natty confirmed

That's not how limits work you retard. That's an obvious logical fallacy. Bigger than possible confirms steroids, smaller than the limit confirms nothing.

Also, you're using his competition weight with 8% bf? Are you retarded? 8% is more like his off season bf. In competition he'd be around 5% 190lbs. I don't care if 26 is an arbitrary cutoff, name a potentially natural lifter that's achieved it. His off-season weight is 200, put that in with 8% and see what you get.

Again, I said BMI not FFMI you fatty. Get out of this thread. FFMI goes UP as the lifter gets leaner.

>lean mass
>literally your weight - body fat

yeah theres these things called organs, blood vessels and bones and shit.

It counts the portion of your organs and bones that aren't fat. You do realise a lot of muscle is just water right? What you just said makes zero sense.

>Also, you're using his competition weight with 8% bf? Are you retarded? 8% is more like his off season bf. In competition he'd be around 5% 190lbs. I don't care if 26 is an arbitrary cutoff, name a potentially natural lifter that's achieved it. His off-season weight is 200, put that in with 8% and see what you get.

>1: He's 5% BF @ 190lbs
Do you have a reference for this? Has Layne ever taken a bf test like a dexa scan?
5%BF? Really? Do you even know what 10% BF look like?
This guy is 10.8% BF
youtube.com/watch?v=Mmnby7lLABc
Timestamps if you can't be bothered watching the entire video
1:20 - See his body
7:33 - Results

No way is Layne sub 8% and you ask if i'm retarded.

>2: His off-season weight is 200, put that in with 8% and see what you get.
I put in 200 @8% and got 26.3. Still not the 26.8
I put in 190 @5% and got 25.8.

>3: Name a potentially natural lifter that's achieved it.
I wouldn't know I'm not really familiar with a lot of lifters

>4: The original study
The original study was do on 20 Mr. America winners. How accurate were the bf scans? What was the highest FFMI achieved naturally? 70 years of sports & nutrition science, improved measurements, increased genetic pool size interesting in weightlifting/building muscle would have no impact on estimated genetic limit taken from a sample size of 20 people that would be used to determine if the rest of the population is natural or not. I'm not saying he's natural but FFMI is hardly accurate.

Just remember according to FFMI Jason Blaha has more muscle mass that Serge Nubret.

Non-negotiable

Layne competes in a test fed with random drug testing, when exactly is he going to use drugs?

...

He roids, has admitted to it and is fat.

I wouldn't be surprised. The body can store more muscle if it stores more fat.

People literally don't have the same bone weight for example. I just seriously don't trust it especially when it is giving really high readings.

He's going to pin short esters, and then cut them out days before a comp to come in clean.

Contest condition ~6% in case you guys don't know. Norton is at least 190 at competition weight. If you think you are going to get higher than these numbers, you don't know a thing about natural potential.

Trips of truth

Jason "CIA operator reptilian overlord not bald not racist" blaha has zero credibility. If 95% of what he says is an obvious lie why believe the other 5%

I can reference Layne Norton placing well in bodybuilding competitions.

>I'm not really familiar with lifters.

That means you're also not familiar with bodybuilding competitions and the numbers the winners sit at. His peak competition weight is 195 and if his bodyfat was 5% that makes his ffmi 26.8. 5% is a perfectly reasonable number to assume someone is hitting if they're regularly placing well in bodybuilding comps.

Jonnie Candito is 9% bodyfat according to him but doesn't look as lean as the guy in the video. Why? Because Candito is drug tested and certain compounds make you look dry and lean.

Norton competes in a non tested powerlifting fed and holds records while also placing well in bodybuilding comps. This discussion isn't about Layne, he's obviously using. It's about where to draw the line for drug users and where the grey area is.

He gets randomly tested though, he competes in the IPF which has WADA testing and they do random tests, especially since he was a WR holder.

What? he competes in the IPF which is tested.

Gh15 is a joke, moron and his real name is Jadon Stern a college kid from Florida who looks like this.

Those numbers seem to assume an FFMI of 23.5-24. Top potential for most guys is 24-25, some genetic freaks can get to 27.

From the IPF:
"For both ICT and OCT, selection of particular lifters for testing is not necessarily random."
Layne would even know when hes potentially up fro drug test. The whole point of using short esters before a meet/show that he may be tested for is so that if he IS tested, nothing will be found in his system.
Even people on gear don't need to be over 25 to be on steroids. Just because you are lower than 25 FFMI also proves nothing. Top potential for most guys is 23 at best. 24-25 would be more genetic freak territory, even still a number this high is unlikely without added assistance.
Ok, go listen to Kali muscle tell you how you can look like him by eating ramen noodles and tuna

'Not random' doesn't mean they schedule in advance. It just means they specifically target people they suspect of cheating for spot-checks.

Do you not understand what being targeted means? If he wins a comp or a show, he can be targeted. Then they test him and he comes up clean. They're not going to test him randomly multiple times a year. How do you think people compete and win in tested shows?

Not saying to follow Kali.

Just pointing out that GH15 is the biggest fraud and idiot out there.

USAPL does do that kind of thing, actually (as do a number of WADA-affiliated groups, when they've got the money/reach for it). They're notorious shits for doing things like rocking up on your doorstep at 5am with a phonecall right beforehand.

How is he a fraud? He tells it how it is, and how much shit you really have to take to get to a Mr. O level physique.Thats a different federation, and even still with pinning short esters one can mask their blood test results. The most popular people either don't get tested as randomly as you think, or they know how to beat all of the drug tests they use. Most dont even use CIRT.
I believe Lance Armstrong was the most drug tested, yet he didnt fail a drug test. Its all a test of who can do simple math. Layne and even Lance know people on the inside with knowledge as well, and can predict when they are most likely to be tested.

USAPL is the US branch of the IPF. That's who Layne competes with.

And no, short esters (not even test suspension, which isn't even using an ester) will not get out of your system fast enough to safely dodge an unwarned random test. You want to reliably beat those, you need a way of either faking the samples or of tampering with them once they're handed over.

That quote is just saying they're not randomly testing every person in fed, they don't care about you if your wilks is

It's common fucking sense that you need to be on shitloads of gear, hgh & insulin.
Then he turned around and scammed 1000s of people out of money selling Kigtropin that was fake.

You sound so angry. Might your name be Jason?

You can mask the sample first of all.
They already know when they're likely to be tested. If they felt any risk, they would cut even the shorter esters like suspension out days before meets.

>Also, you're using his competition weight with 8% bf? Are you retarded? 8% is more like his off season bf. In competition he'd be around 5% 190lbs. I don't care if 26 is an arbitrary cutoff, name a potentially natural lifter that's achieved it. His off-season weight is 200, put that in with 8% and see what you get.
how fat are you?

i didn't realize there were people this stupid

my mind is fucking blown

Yes but he obviously knows when hes going to be tested. He has people who help him pass drug tests.
Calm down, we're just having a discussion. You sound like you were one of the people who got scammed.

They get tested out of competition.

He's pretty much guaranteed to be tested at the meet (most larger comps will drug-test everyone who places near the top plus a random selection of also-rans and anyone they personally suspect). It's the out-of-contest testing - which does not require a significant advance warning - that screws with people.

Never been scammed.
Just saying its common sense.
Just like its common sense to realize everyone & everyweb site is trying to sell you some line of bullshit and/or some product bullshit. Anyone who really knows gear can see right through GH15. Just like anyone who knows google can see through Jason Blaha. Just like anyone who knows supplements are bullshit can see through Jerry Ward, Lobliner.

They still have an idea of when they will be tested, which is why they may choose to stick to test suspension, or an oral. Chances are, most people aren't going to get caught because they know half lives and detection times of everything they are taking. The sport is all about money anyway. The amount of time/money it would take for them to actually catch even the smart people isn't worth it for them.