Let's talk about this massacre. What exactly happened? How horrific did it actually get? How many died?
Was it all for the greater good of China?
Let's talk about this massacre. What exactly happened? How horrific did it actually get? How many died?
Kayden Wood
John Robinson
Also, post pics.
Josiah Lopez
It's entirely pointless. Everyone will stick to their political agendas, some will bend things in grotesque and exaggerated fashion (most on /pol/-infested chan), some will simply interpret and fill the gaps to match their agenda.
You also probably started this thread for LARP opportunity.
Michael Edwards
>You also probably started this thread for LARP opportunity.
I'm just curious about the extant of the carnage and fighting honestly. All politics aside.
Tyler Garcia
As someone else said in a previous thread about it
>actually how the fuck. Like a couple of deaths from stampeding, sure. Some from people fighting back.
>But fucking a thousand vehicles lost? 6k injured? Actually how does that even fucking happen
>are they counting like back pain from beating protestors as being injured or something?
Luke Scott
Guy in pic died of cancer in prison recently.
Christian Flores
I think there's a lot more to it than we know.
Nathan Ross
>dat casualties
I know it's China but wtf? Imagine the level of censure blockade to hide such a shitstorm, and despite this we have nice footages of tankman...
Logan Cook
Any chance the Chinese government lied about that to try to win sympathy and paint the protesters as crazed and violent?
Thomas Scott
An important thing to keep in mind when looking at the Tienanmen Square Incident is that it wasn't really a pro-democracy protest like Western media tends to make it out to be.
Rather, it was an explosion of unrest relating to a lot of the issues with Deng's reforms that was brought to the surface by the death of Hu Yaobang. That's not the first time protests like this have happened - I forget the name, but there was a wave of protests at the beginning of the Deng era when another prominent beloved politician died - but this time the crackdown was considerably more violent.
It's possible, but given accounts I've read the damage done doesn't seem too unbelievable. The protesters created roadblocks throughout the city and apparently managed to stop some columns of soldiers early on before the crackdown really started. Think back to the 2014 Kiev riots - they burned damn near every tire in eastern europe to make barricades. Similar tactics - flipping cars, throwing debris in the streets, etc. - would be used to make barricades like that in a city.
Jack Allen
Students, disaffected poor people, and edgy anarchists (essentially your average leftist) saw the government allowing minor protests and decided it was time to push their luck and kill the budding democracy movement in China in its crib.
Relative to most massacres? Mundane. The US ally, South Korea, had only just finished killing 3500+ leftist protestors in a similar massacre earlier that decade.
2000-3000 according to most pro-democracy organizations. Most likely somewhere north of 2000 once you consider that the crackdown occurred in numerous cities, and the protestors destroyed/killed/robbed much more often in Zhengzhou/Shanghai/Guangzhou.
Would’ve preferred Deng having shut it down earlier instead of letting it expand to the point he needed to call in the army. His successors learned that lesson. On a utilitarian basis, it most likely was for the greater good. But slaughtering your own people is a taint on a government that will never go away.
Leo Evans
song for thread
Thomas Brown
Where is that Soros faggot guy? Didn't he create a thread about the Tiananmen square massacre and said the protesters were Soros funded?
Lincoln Anderson
Pro-democracy activists from the protests agree that some protestors turned it into a riot. Not everyone in the crowd was a kind pacifist.
Wu Renhua for example.
Angel Walker
Some really good historical clips in that video
Jaxson Stewart
>Was it all for the greater good of China?
The protests ended up being a colossal mistake, and a huge setback for China.
During the 80's China was already going both economic AND politic liberalization under Deng Xiaoping. However, the Tienanmen Square massacre put a halt to the political liberalization of the system and the CCP started cracking down on dissenters as it would in the past.
Important to note, the protests weren't only about freedom and "democracy", a good deal was about society being unable to adjust to the new relatively liberal economy and the social unrest brought on the CCP's incompatibility with the system.
It's crazy but in my opinion, had the protests never happened, we could've seen a much more democratic China today.
James Rodriguez
Charles Edwards
I mean, it's China after all, they die by the billions.
Joshua Martinez
"""massacre"""
I guess what massacre means is something like what happened for instance in the US and called Waco "siege", that's a fucking massacre
James Myers
>YEAH BUT WHAT ABOUT
Didn't realize we had chink suckers here.
Benjamin Morris
t. China
Thomas Peterson
the west definitions of "massacres", "revolution", "democracy" is 100% hypocrite, they use such terms to defame the countries who refuse to be their economic whores like China and Russia, they can't say a fucking word about for example Saudi Arabia or even tiny Gulf state like Qatar which blatantly supports terrorists wherever they are and somehow it still protected
TLDR I won't believe terms like "massacre" coming from the west
Parker Butler
Even if you believe the Chinese government version, three to four more people died in Tianamen than Waco. If Waco was a massacre Tianamen sure as fuck was.
Alexander Collins
>the US is the west
Ayden Walker
What would you call it, if you reject teh term massacre?
Jackson Hill
>the protesters were Soros funded?
Bumb
Grayson Carter
Incident
Luis Harris
Yes that was a massacre too.
James Green
The holocaust wasn't a genocide it was an incident as well
Dominic Turner
>red herring
Oliver Miller
Only reason the crackdown happened as it did is because of petty power politics in the standing committee between the Zhao Ziyang and Li Peng factions. If Zhao hadn't been in North Korea, the whole disaster could've been averted and China would be in a much better place politically, avoiding the Xi generation and having respect for human rights
Christian White
Literally triggered by big black cock
Brayden White
>crazy but in my opinion, had the protests never happened, we could've seen a much more democratic China today.
I would tend to agree. Look at Thailand for example. Many conservatives/militaries are willing to slowly democratize, but they never want to see rapid change that might disadvantage their current positions in society.
The protests taught the CCP a lesson. Never allow a small problem manifest into a great one.
Let me caution though that Deng himself called for a crackdown in early April. His colleagues Hu Yaobang and Zhao Zayong both pushed back against Deng. After awhile Deng acquiesced and Hu/Zhao tried to use words to disperse the protestors. But the protestors wouldn’t accept a compromise and that ruined Hu/Zhao’s reputations in April/May 1989. Have you seen the pictures of Hu trying to reason with the protestors? Or when Zhao brought them into the government to hear out their demands? The protestors wouldn’t accept the current gradual liberalization, and so the conservatives saw that Hu and Zhao (liberals) were weak.
By late May, Deng decided to remove Zhao and crackdown on the protestors.
Mason Evans
>the absolute state of delusion that Chinese liberals live in
Zhao was in Beijing for most of the protest...
Aiden Lewis
Nonetheless he was outmaneuvered in the standing committee while he was away with the decision to publish the April 26 editorial, which was the catalyst for the renewal of the protests.
In fact is, that happened several times: the ineptitude of the CCP led to an escalation of the situation when it was otherwise dying down. Most notably with the declaration of martial law. The fact remains that the student protestors almost uniformly were not seeking regime change but protesting corruption, in fact they supported communism and the CCP. They sang the internationale for fucks sake.
The CCP forfeited all pretense of serving the people of china with the decision to suppress peaceful protestors with frontline military units. Why couldn't they have just cleared the square with police and batons like they did in 76 if anything? If you think June 4th was necessary you're a bootlicker and a literal cuck to the Chinese Corruption Party
Gavin Young
>renewal
What? They were quite continuous.
>le police
There were 100,000 protestors and rioters in the square. It was not a job for policeman you fucking idiot. No one asks policemen to handle that many people.
Julian Russell
Thailand is a shithole though.
Brody Reed
Explain?