Was Gaddafi really that great?

T. Shillary

T. Obongonigger

Gaddafi was beloved by the left for many decades but as soon as he got a knife up the bum by his own people /pol/ turned him into a hero. I don't understand it.

/pol/ was always sympathetic towards him, he hated jews, the UN, and the CIA

Nope I hate that Muslim African nigger like Gaddafi and Asshole-Assad too. He can engage in tequila all he wants but they all support that pedophile scum Muhammad, piss be upon him. I'm not a Monkey King Obongonigger lover.

they probably took the gold they were laundering for him

No, he was garbage. But the thing is, NATO taking him out resulted in horrible things like the migrant crises, ISIS infecting Libya, and the slave trade returning to the country. But the thing about all of this is that most people are really really stupid, and can only view history and/or current events through this childish superhero tier "good guys vs bad guys" filter. So because taking Giddafi out resulted in those horrible things, then that means he must have been a great guy and the western powers+the libyan rebels are the evil bad guys. It should also be noted that most people who praise him as some hero in the west do not care at all about the well being of libyan people or the enslavement of people there

>i just got fed up of watching RT videos
you should also consider this user. Consider the fact that RT, the Kremlin controlled media channel, is praising him while denouncing the USA. Also take notice of a typical /pol/tier paranoid shit poster praising him.

>It should also be noted that most people who praise him as some hero in the west do not care at all about the well being of libyan people or the enslavement of people there

True, it seems like there's some shady propagandistic material being pushed on. I already see mainstream media using the same kind of analysis on Saddam and Assad ("good guys who got betrayed"). It makes me wonder if America is actually losing it's grip of power because of a few keyboard warriors.

He supported the *rish during the troubles

Libya produced more and more oil 1990-2011 so...

Much better run than venezuela. More like your average Gulf state. Not saying much, of course

>that most people who praise him as some hero in the west do not care at all about the well being of libyan people or the enslavement of people there

Well neither do the people who call him evil considering Libya is literally a failed state with slave markets now.

t. Neoconshit

If gaddafi has peacefully surrendered to the UN it wouldn’t

Also I do care for the people of Libya.

>le peacefully surrender to UN

U wot m8

There is no UNSCR telling him to surrender to the UN.

Why exactly are you moving the goalposts?

The facts are clear: pre-2011 Libya was far better for Libyans than post-2011 Libya. What key factor changed in 2011?
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_Civil_War_(2011–present)

t. Schmulik Rosenstein

I'm not sure people are like that at all. I don't think Ghaddafi is a saint, but maybe Western powers shouldn't meddle with other country's affairs when it isn't our business, especially when they have repurcussions that our leaders are mostly insulated from while the common people are not. Such as """refugees""" amd trucks of peace. Fuck, I wish ISIS would bomb our politicians instead of random people that have nothing to do with it. Way to be a pretentious faggot though. (people are stupid, except me tho lol)

Yeah that user is a strawmanning asshat.

Look at his retarded response trying to move the goalpostsNo UNSCR for surrender. Only a no-fly zone.

Ghadffi had a long-term plan to introduce a pan African currency to stop its dependence on foreign intervention
He had 20billion worth of gold bullion in his vaults
That's the real reason the US took him out

>contributed on his downfall.

Calling for gold currency guaranteed his death.

>the well being of libyan people or the enslavement of people there

If you CAN'T achieve that with only 6 million mouths to feed and loads of oil you're a pathetic leader. That's like playing Sim City on babby mode and still having your city devolve into riots and disasters.

Wtf I love communist pan-Africanism now

>but maybe Western powers shouldn't meddle with other country's affairs
Not the same guy, but once you stop doing this, you're not a power. If you want your country to stay at the top of the heap, you have to be willing to kick other motherfuckers off it.

The fact remains that the majority of African countries could not. There's no point saying anyone can do it when no one did.

>The fact remains that the majority of African countries could not.
Because they had too many people and not enough oil to get the outcome that Libya did.

>There's no point saying anyone can do it when no one did.
Anyone could, given the opportunity.

I notice that list of supposedly amazing things he did for the country no longer gets posted in these threads. I take it people realised what nonsense it was?

>Because they had too many people and not enough oil to get the outcome that Libya did.
What about Equatorial Guinea?

>Anyone could, given the opportunity.
Why didn't they?

Doesn't matter, you're going to have to deal with shit when in a revolution. It's like saying "wow I felt a lot better before the Chemo, should've just stuck with the cancer"

Who the fuck cares about cheap gas or subsidized housing, when you can get tortured for attempting to set up a political party or for criticizing the country's leader who is impossible to remove from power via democratic means? You people seem to think that humans should be content as long as their basic needs like food and water are met like fucking zoo animals.

Well guess what, Gaddafi was a brutal authoritarian dictator and deserved everything he got. You can't enslave a nation forever. Today. Libya has a vibrant political landscape with countless political parties, elections and a constitution based around individual liberties and human rights. Sure, there are problems with rule of law and so on, but that always happens after a revolution. Overall, there has been a positive change.

Can you please explain why your analogy makes sense?

Why is a dictatorial regime inherently bad?

because they didn't have the opportunity?

Libya is currently facing a civil war and is filled with corruption and terrorists, it's also become a hub for the slave trade. Libya was much better during Gaddafi.

Gadaffi is the cancer, the revolution is the chemo, the shitty situation of Libya now is the shitty feeling you get from chemo.... makes sense?

An investigation by Amnesty International concludes that those “rape dungeons” were lies and propaganda. These “rape war crimes” were “revealed” by Le Monde, which is a globalist, pro-NATO, liberal media.

Calm down, Schlomo. Don’t you have some circumcised baby dicks to suck?

Democracy isn’t a perfect, universal standard you fucking liberal scum. Some nations, having different history, culture and traditions from those in the Western world, cannot function without a properly authoritarian autocratic figure.

The alt-right's love affair with foreign dictators is a modern version of the old left's love affair with foreign dictators. In both cases, spending some time in the praised foreign regimes would cause a very large portion of the dictator-sympathizers to realize that they had been idiots.

Democracy requires certain values and education. West will never understand this. You cant implant democracy to iraq, afganistan etc. You can try but it will devolve to civil war or back to despotism. To be honest most of countries in africa and middle east could get much better with benevolent dictatorship implanting western values over time.

>You cant implant democracy to iraq
You certainly can't if you don't want to, which is what happened in Iraq. The americans ignored the results of post-war elections and put their own yes-men in charge, because they were afraid the iraqis would reject the neoliberal economics that the occupation was supposed to establish for the benefit of american companies.

>circular reasoning
Your argument is you trying to play down evidence contrary to your point of view and then being completely unable to back it up. Back to /pol/.

Yeah, I think Africa needs benevolent autocracy, but it shouldn't phase into westernism.
The Arabian states have done very well with benevolent autocracy/oligarchy because the values of the government align with the values of the people - regardless if their values are good or bad.

Implementing democracy in a place like Iraq will only end in unnecessary bloodshed and civil war due to uneducated mob rule. You might as well just start with immediate benevolent autocracy. That way, the people don't have to die and suffer trying to establish a dictator with mob mentality.

>humans should be content as long as their basic needs like food and water are met like fucking zoo animals
yep, pretty much, have you heard of the concept of "bread & circuses"?

>You cant implant democracy to iraq, afganistan etc.
yes, you can, and it self-destructs because it's shit like it does everywhere else but in less time because arabs etc are less complaisant

what type(s) of opportunity?

Iraq descended into chaos because the american military practically abolished the state and destroyed basic infrastructure. There is nothing inherently arabic or islamic about being pissed off when someone intentionally trashes the basic elements of your society.

I have to agree. Iraq is unique in the fact that they will always be pissed at westerners, so you can't have a western government, and on the other hand if you give way to an autocrat then they will rise up against you.

it was better before the war I believe, but next time don't use 4 pictures of same buildings from different angles

I'm asking you to explain why

IRA did nothing wrong.

>I'm not sure people are like that at all. I don't think Ghaddafi is a saint, but maybe Western powers shouldn't meddle with other country's affairs when it isn't our business, especially when they have repurcussions that our leaders are mostly insulated from while the common people are not.

Hahaha no joke. Seems like basing your views around this obvious reality makes a lot more sense than hating people that look / speak differently than you

Thank god we killed him so we can get the BBC that the white bitches of Europe desperately needed.

That maybe true but I am not a useful idiot for dictators and I am not an alt-righter but, I don't see how Libya is better today without Gaddafi and as for dictators, some of the alt-right's love affairs with dictators like Putin for example are pretty tame considering that he hasn't murdered millions of people since he became the ruler of Russia in 2000. But honestly, I don't think you should lump people's "love affair" for dictators like Gaddafi with the people who said, "He was a necessary evil despite his flaws, he was a dictator that made Libya one of the most prosperous in Africa" I'm just saying. Some dictators might be needed in some parts of the world, it doesn't mean I love dictators or sympathize with them but you can see the necessary evil of Gaddafi or Assad without going full /pol/tard or becoming a tankie and supporting North Korea for example. It's not black and white.

>I'm not a useful idiot for dictators

Care to travel to Libya and see how your precious "democracy" is doing there?

Libya is bad now sure but you are objectively shilling for dictators. You are an useful idiot. Someone not insane would realize US intervention was bad but democracy is still necessary.

>democracy is good regardless of the circumstances
This is your brain on liberalism

How the fuck am I am shilling for dictators? Are you fucking retarded? No seriously are you dense or something? Did I say that I love dictators or shill for them? Where did I say that?
>Democracy is still necessary
Yeah if the society wants it in the first place. Russia lost its democracy in 1996 when our new "buddy" Yeltsin rigged the 1996 election. The commies would have won and I don't support communism but it was very likely that if the commies were allowed to win, it is possible that people would have a little more faith in democracy. Tell you what, go to Libya or Syria and oust Assad and find me some people that believe in democracy and I will take back what I said about Gaddafi and Assad. Please go to Syria and Libya now and find some people and raise a rebel army that is committed to democracy and human rights. I'll be ready to take back what I said about Gaddafi then.

wow the board full of national socialists was okay with some forms of socialism? i would have never guessed it

>democracy is automatically better than anything else

Literally anyone in iraq will tell you it was better under saddam

>but democracy is still necessary.
why?

>implying western values are good
Off yourself, neoliberal

This, unironically

>I wish ISIS would bomb our politicians
Why aren't we bombing our own politicians? Better yet, why aren't we bombing major corporations?

Equatorial Guinea has the highest GDP per capita in all of Africa

This, unironically

GDP per capita is not a very good indicator of the quality of life for the average citizen, or for the state of infrastructure and institutions in the country.

welp. looks like the atomic retard didn't have a copy paste allcaps answer ready about gaddafi

Gaddafi was on the verge of establishing relations with Israel as a symbol of normalizing ties with the West when the civil war broke out but obama/hillary didn't care.

This was proven by testimonies of regime officials. Yet /pol/ will have you ignore this.

I love how shitskins pull the #NotAllMuslim argument then call you Jewish if you DARE not worship the "right" mudslime tinpot dictators

fuck off subhumans

I'm European. You're either a kike or an amerimutt (same thing).

Take a look a the difference between Yemen and the United Arab Emirates when it comes to HDI and wealth.

>Why didn't they?
Because coincidentally in the case of Libya once oil was discovered the government was quickly overthrown by members of the military

>rather the islamic failed state cancer than the secular asshole government cancer

It's not like Assad, Gaddafi and other ba'athist-influenced authortarians are wahhabi's biggest enemies lmao

...

This thread sucks
Sage

I dont get this image

How cucked do you need to be to be glad that a Man whose objective was to improve the life of all Africans is now dead?

It's the opposite of what you stated and actually criticizing USA for killing a man who wanted to make his country better.

No we're losing our grip on reality because of a few keyboard warriors.

>We dindo nuffin
>Russians did this to meee

Helo Evil Empire

Great for oil trade and keeping refugees in Africa

You have a lot of hate in your heart. What's the point? We're all going to die and it will mean nihil, so why not seek self-liberation?

>Was Gaddafi really that great?
He was certainly modest. He was the dictator of a wealthy nation and only promoted himself to Colonel.

What a lot of people don't understand is that the intellectual surplus the west achieved was during times of centralized rule.

Where one entity could run a country without worry of losing power because of short term costs for long term benefits.

also you have the two wolves and a sheep analogy.

The continent as a whole doesn't need to trade with the outside world for anything, a United States of Africa would be an economic power immediately, and would be a super power within 25 years.

I do hope somehow, someway that the entire continent of Africa somehow unifies and forms a single party government.

are you dense? It's obviously drawing a line of causation from his declaration to his death shortly thereafter

>Literally anyone in iraq
Like the Kurds and Shiites right?

Kurds are not humans

Gaddafi's ouster was the most clear cut case of neo imperialism ever, even more cut and dry than Saddam's, I don't see why people still defend it from an angle of democracy spreading or whatever.