Fa/tg/uy here

Fa/tg/uy here.

Would winged hussars be what knights would have turned into if Western Europe remained feudal and decentralized into the 18th century, or are they too Oriental in influence? I'm trying to homebrew a Baroque-themed setting taking place in not!Bretonnia (chivalry, serdom, we wuz Kang Arthur etc) but without the retarded technophobia, so I want to "modernize" medieval knights to resemble winged hussars.

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demi-lancer,
youtube.com/watch?v=tLcpwwSRx24
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarmatism
imcjournal.com/index.php/en/volume-xvi-2016/contents-number-3-3/879-the-proto-slavic-warrior-in-europe-the-scythians-sarmatians-and-lekhs
youtube.com/watch?v=uIquh1CcLhE
youtu.be/r-mnfJvSDkU
youtube.com/watch?v=BRgKzmOK0T4
youtube.com/watch?v=vNK3EkLVg-A
youtube.com/watch?v=fWAMN23q5kU
youtube.com/watch?v=rKMGYSz9RGM
youtube.com/watch?v=1YBlfuSuVEY
youtube.com/watch?v=tum8OhvF0fI
twitter.com/AnonBabble

If you're looking for visual reference, I'd recommend looking up Swedish half-plate armor, seems to sound like what you're looking for.

Not exactly sure what you mean with technophobia element, doesn't make sense for literal warriors to refuse military technology (altho there's several example of it.) less I'm misunderstanding what ur trying to say?

Actual knights developed into armored cuirassiers who used both pistols and swords. These retained their value right into the days of napoleon and possibly beyond. Why they abandoned lances totally between (roughly) 1600 and 1800 while the poles did some fancy shit with their hollow super long lances is a good question. One of the theories is that it was related to the army structure and the need to draw maximum utility out of the noble cavalry. So you could easily imagine a kind of army composed all of western demi-lancers, relying on longer lances in the charge (and perhaps less well trained infantry on the opposing side too).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demi-lancer,

The wings are obviously decorative and wouldn't be used by westerners. The sabre seems to be a more eastern weapon (or generally one for lighter armored enemies). Western cavalry would mostly use straight swords. The koncerz is fine though probably not vital to the concept. The armor would be of a western pattern, obviously, but it doesn't really make much difference.

>Not exactly sure what you mean with technophobia element, doesn't make sense for literal warriors to refuse military technology (altho there's several example of it.) less I'm misunderstanding what ur trying to say?
In Warhammer Fantasy, Bretonnian nobility worship a goddess that grants ward saves to worthy knights but not to peasants or those who fight "dishonorably" (i.e. using ranged weapons in general but especially firearms). That's why Bretonnia overall resembles 13-14th France even though it's right next to 16th century notGermany that can field steam tanks and repeating firearms. The blessings of the Lady is also the reason why the former can stand toe-to-toe with steampunk krauts and extradimensional horrors. In my homebrew setting, the kingdom retains the political/social structure of high medieval France (very similar to the later Polish Commonwealth), but with flintlock and cannons in keeping with the 18th century feel.

Early 18TH century Winged Hussars fall into decline and were reformed into National Cavalry.
You mean 17th century.
Also maybe but minus wings as they are later ceremonial addition and not used in battle(also part of saddle not a armor).

Winged Hussars are what happens when a culture with Knights hang around Turkshits and Steppenigs too much.

Hence the the sabers, chichak helmet, Leopard print faggotry, Sipahi/Delhi Aesthetics,. Its a Steppenigger meme. Even China had it.

In fact: Eastern European medieval military equipment is TURKED/Steppenig'd/Easterned one way or another.

Even the Byzantines aren't exempt to this: they adopted the Cataphract after all from the Sassanids, and had Horse Archers following their battles with the Bulgars, Kipchaks, and Magyars.

>Also maybe but minus wings as they are later ceremonial addition and not used in battle
But that's wrong. Just because they were ALSO used later in ceremonials, it's stupid to reason that they weren't in use in battles because of that.
It's history normie trap.
>(I have very little knowledge about this, but) I heard somewhere that those mainstream wings are fake(and it makes sense, why would they use it?), so listen here how knowledgeable I am about this matter.
It's "knights used cranes to get on the horse(and it makes sense, armours weighted like 80kg)" - tier

It's not like Western Europe has been immune to Eastern influences either. The chichak helmet design spread westward from the Ottoman Empire in the 16th century, reaching as far as England during the Civil Wars. The Congreve rocket was adopted by the British in response to Tipu Sultan's successful use of rocket artillery against European-style infantry formations.

lets not forget the entire subculture of runaway Russian serfs who LARPed as Turks

>similar to the Commonwealth

??? I don't think the estates were all that similar to the Sejm since the Sejm was noble in nature and 15% of the population could vote for the king at the highest point due to the Polish allowing nobility to be passed down to all kids.

Sarmatians, Scythians and other Iranic-speakers came first. Mongols, Turks and Cossacks all ripped them off.

Winged Hussats were already knights(aka mounted warriors), the chivalrous undertone is merely an Arthurian/Brythonic invention.

They came first to the west but turks and mongols existed in the east before migrating west and conquering these groups.

Veeky Forums fag here, don't forget that the ban on gunpowder weapons only applies
1. on land
2. to the aristocracy.

Peasants can use whatever, they're just so goddamn poor they can't afford or make guns, and the Aristocracy aren't going to supply them for anything but use on ships

Anyway, What you're going to be looking for are Demilancers, Curiassiers, and Harquebusiers.

Demilancers were heavy cavalry with armor reinforced to be bullet-proof. They wore less armor over all, but it was thicker in area's likely to be shot. They were meant to shit on lighter cavalry and charge with lances.

Curiassiers is the french term for "Dude in armor with Pistols". You know the Pistoliers from the Empire's army lineup? Like that, but not fucking dogshit. Curiassiers would usually be armed with two long wheel-lock pistols, which they would fire at close range before charging with their swords.

Harquebusiers were much lighter (and cheaper) cavalry armed with a type of carbine long arm called a Harquebuse, closer to Empire "Outriders", except they too used their guns as a support weapon and tended to charge in with swords.

Two other important things to mention:

1. The Carabiniers-à-Cheval, cavalry regiments raised by Napoleon who would be armed with a breastplate, a carbine, a saber, and a brace of two pistols. They also carried grenades on their horses kit.

2. Gustavus Adolphus of Sweden, who would be the man to develop and modernize many of the mounted gun 'n' sword shock tactics used during the 30 years war and into the revolutionary era. You may want to look into him.

hussars used guns though
they would shot a pistol once or twice while charging before switching to lance

>Would winged hussars be what knights would have turned into if Western Europe remained feudal and decentralized into the 18th century
no, thats what happens when you settle differences honourably on the field (like poles and turks did) instead of being backstabbing scum that oppresses its population, drafts half of the country into some retarded war and taxes the shit out of everyone

...

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>Demilancers

Did Europeans ever experiment with soft armor? I can see why they abandoned all plate armor except for the cuirass after the English Civil Wars since the weight kept ramping up to withstand even glancing musket hits. But I don't see why Europeans would've have figured out that soft armor can better absorb the impact of bullets without being too heavy. Even the isolationist, stagnant Joseon kingdom whipped up a thick cotton armor that can stop even 19th century Minie bullets.

*wouldn't have

yeah they should have used leather armor

That’s Stradiot, balkan cavalry mainly Albanian

Ever heard of buff coats?

>That’s Stradiot, balkan cavalry mainly Albanian
Who mostly got their cavalry traditions in imitating Turkshits to counter Turkshits.

But that was basically Polish Sarmatism combined with independent Cossack lifestyle which arose in southern Lithuania and matured in eastern Poland.
youtube.com/watch?v=tLcpwwSRx24
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarmatism

Basically Polish nobility keeping the tradition alive of being descendants of Iranian ("Persian") Sarmatians (and Scythians) who came on todays Polish lands before the proto Slavs (Venedi etc.) moved in and intermixed with them.
imcjournal.com/index.php/en/volume-xvi-2016/contents-number-3-3/879-the-proto-slavic-warrior-in-europe-the-scythians-sarmatians-and-lekhs

P.S. Pic rel: Polish noble and national costumes - delias and żupans.

But that was basically Polish Sarmatism combined with independent Cossack lifestyle which arose in southern Lithuania and matured in eastern Poland.
youtube.com/watch?v=tLcpwwSRx24
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarmatism

Basically Polish nobility keeping the tradition alive of being descendants of Iranian ("Persian") Sarmatians (and Scythians) who came on todays Polish lands before the proto Slavs (Venedi etc.) moved in and intermixed with them.
imcjournal.com/index.php/en/volume-xvi-2016/contents-number-3-3/879-the-proto-slavic-warrior-in-europe-the-scythians-sarmatians-and-lekhs

P.S. Pic rel: Polish noble and national costumes - żupan and kontusz over it (from left: 1 and 3). There is also delia not shown here and the Polish-style kołpak hats are not really exposed well.

Polish hetman (officer) wearing the Polish kołpak while holding the buława (mace).

True, but it went both ways too, Balkan region was known for cavalry since Ancient Greece, Alexander the Great cavalry for example

Funnily enough, both Polish Sarmatism and the Arthurian cycles are rooted in Sarmatian culture and beliefs, the latter through Alan mercenaries and their descendants/imitators in sub-Roman Britain. Wonder if King Arthur ever became a thing in medieval/Commonwealth Poland like he was in France and Germany.

>both Polish Sarmatism and the Arthurian cycles are rooted in Sarmatian culture and beliefs
Is this true? Or did you just get high and watch King Arthur and forget

>The Sarmatians had a near-religious fondness for their swords: tribal worship was directed at a sword sticking up from the ground, similar to the sword in the stone. They carried standards in the form of dragons. Ossetian Nart sagas contain a number of interesting parallels to the Arthurian legends. First, the life of the Nart warrior (batraz) is tied to his sword, which must be thrown into the sea at his death. When one wounded Batraz asks his last surviving comrade to do the task for him, his companion tries to fool him twice before finally hurling the weapon into the sea; rather like Arthur's wondrous sword Excalibur which had to be returned to the Lady of the Lake at his death by his last surviving knight, Bedivere, who only did the deed on his third trip to the lake. The Nart heroes Soslan and Sosryko, collect the beards of vanquished enemies to trim their cloaks like Arthur's enemy Rience: the subjects of both stories have one last beard to obtain before the cloak is complete. Two other similar motifs are the Cup of the Narts (Nartyamonga), which appeared at feasts, delivered to each person what he liked best to eat, and which was kept by the bravest of the Narts ('Knights') - somewhat similar to the Holy Grail connected to the Arthurian cycle – and the magical woman, dressed in white, associated with water, who helps the hero acquire his sword – similar to the Lady of the Lake.

>The hypothesis of a connection between the Alan and Sarmatian peoples and the legend of King Arthur depends upon the fact that the Alano-Sarmatians were steppe nomads known in the 2nd century for their skill as heavy cavalry. In 175, Marcus Aurelius, after defeating the Sarmatian Iazyges tribe during the Marcomannic Wars, took 8,000 Sarmatians into Roman service, of whom 5,500 were sent to the northern borders of Britain. The 5th century Notitia Dignitatum mentions a "Formation of Sarmatians" (Cuneus Sarmatarum; cunei were small auxiliary units in the late Empire) being present at Bremetennacum (Ribchester), where we find inscriptions dating to the 3rd century CE of a "Wing of Sarmatians" (ala Sarmatarum) and a "Company of Sarmatian Horsemen" (numeri equitum Sarmatarum).

tbqh it isn't even just eastern europe and byzantines.
Cataphracts for example were used in Western Roman Empire and became main inspiration/influence for French knight cavalry which eventually became Knighthood lifestyle.

I didn't know that, really interesting.

check out the 2004-05 movie king arthur who takes a far more realistic approach to the arthurian mythology
Arthur is a roman official
Merlin is a local druid
invaders are germanic folk
etc
they employ sarmatian theory also as knights of arthur are roman soldiers from sarmatia

>invaders are germanic folk
Of course, just typical.
>they employ sarmatian theory also as knights of arthur are roman soldiers from Sarmatia
Now I NEED to watch it ;)

>Cataphracts for example were used in Western Roman Empire and became main inspiration/influence for French knight cavalry which eventually became Knighthood lifestyle.
Wrong.

The Medieval Knight originated from the Frankish "Miles" of the Frankish Kingdom. A Miles was literally a "Soldier." A professional one. Who stood in stark contrast to the part timers that formed the mass of the Frankish army.

Now for the cunts to remain professional, Frankish lords alloted Miles plots of land in order to liberate the Soldier from anything other than professional military service. During this time there was no social difference between the Miles who were stuck in infantry roles and the Miles who served as cavalry. They were equals. Hell tactically there wasnt even any difference: the mounted Miles were less cavalry and more mounted infantry.

However when the combined threat of Magyar, Muslim, and Norse raids threatened Frankish Hegemony, the ones with horses rose in prominence as they were able to ride out quickly and interdict multiple threats. In addition to being able to stand toe to toe vs. Magyars and Muslims who had good cavalry.

And so the Knightly class was born and their importance rose socially, eclipsing their infantry fellows entirely until they swallowed them completely, with the infantry miles being pretty much tenants/employees of a cavalry miles who became Knights.

Thre is something about the simple sword and shield aesthetic that i really like

Szabla master race coming thru.
youtube.com/watch?v=uIquh1CcLhE

>ywn ride into battle on a horse dressed as a lion
:'(

I wonder when they would use a system like this.
There’s very little room for parries and countercuts and focuses mostly on aggressive cuts.

perfect for duels in an imperfect country that fell for a democracy meme
youtu.be/r-mnfJvSDkU

>There’s very little room for parries and countercuts
Watch these:
youtube.com/watch?v=BRgKzmOK0T4
youtube.com/watch?v=vNK3EkLVg-A

youtube.com/watch?v=fWAMN23q5kU
youtube.com/watch?v=rKMGYSz9RGM
youtube.com/watch?v=1YBlfuSuVEY
youtube.com/watch?v=tum8OhvF0fI
That sabre duel is good for a movie, but not very realistic.

bamp