Nautical thread

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maritime_Archaic

toggling harpoons

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L'Orient
Carthaginian Navy
Aboukir Bay

>their superior seaworthiness meant that they could safely operate in waters that were too dangerous for the Romans

>the Veneti evidently had close relations with Iron Age Britain; he describes how the Veneti sail to Britain.[1] They controlled the tin trade from mining in Cornwall and Devon.[2] Caesar mentioned that they summoned military assistance from that island during the war of 56 BCE.[3]

I have a question. In the era when ships of the line would throw cannonballs at each other, how did anyone survive being on the gun deck? If a man o' war blasts a full broadside of nearly fifty guns straight into an enemy's ship, how in the fuck do any of the enemy gunners manage to stay alive among the flying bits of wood/shrapnel/cannonballs? As well as that, ships took a huge amount of time and money to make, so why invest enormous resources into something that could be blown apart so easily, or at least certainly severely damaged in its first major engagement? Sorry if this seems like a brainlet question, I just can't get my head around it

Late 19th century pre-dreadnaughts. The sheer variety in ship designs before they rationalised the guns to a few main batteries and settled on a uniform colour scheme. There was still an important element of theatricality and impressing friends and foes alike. Personal bias because my great grandad served on on this.

British doctrine aimed specifically at the hull, French and Spanish ships tended to try and knock out the sails and rigging. Losses would be terrible in a salvo but even with the shrapnel effect, it wouldn't kill or maim everyone. Point blank shooting wouldn't happen unless one of the ships was already crippled and unable to move away (or return fire well enough to keep the enemy at distance). Unless you're crossing the battle line, there'd still be enough distance between the ships to mean that not all the guns would typically hit their targets, you'd start fighting as soon as you were in viable range. You spend the money on it because you either wagered that ship and the crew in a battle or lost by default and surrendered control of the seas.

I've read somethings about that and from what I've gathered there are several factors
First of all the obvious - Naval battles were in fact extremely bloody due to the reasons you mentioned. There are cases in which sailors were killed from bones flying out of shipmates hit by cannonballs. So yes naval battles of old were meat grinders.

Secondly - you see how tiny the gun ports are making it it harder to score a direct hit but also harder to aim. That coupled with the inherent inaccuracy of the smooth bore cannon (mind you they were nowhere near as inaccurate as depicted by the media) meant that a full broadside rarely hit anything at longer rangers.

Thirdly - not all cannonballs made it through the hull as pictured by this famous cannonball from the battle of Trafalgar.
Still can't imagine the horror of being in a middle of a such battle.

Funnily enough Napoleon's mother, Letizia, was so worried about the possibility of her son drowning or being burned alive out at sea that she urged him to join another field, such as the artillery, rather than the navy as he originally intended.

I'm a sucker for full-rigged steam ship. Your post got me which got me thinking however - the difference between a ship from 1800 and one from 1900 is far greater than the difference between a ship from 1917 and a one from today.

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bas-relief of a 8th century srivijayan era ship from the borobudur temple, this thing sailed from indonesia all the way to madagascar

Yep, almost every major invention of the industrial revolution influenced ship design. I suppose you could say the inventions of the 20th century advanced naval weaponry more than the ships themselves. In terms of radar, missiles, guided torpedoes, aircraft, damage control, communications, they're a world apart from their 1917 counterparts.

The Belitung shipwreck[1][2] (also called the Tang shipwreck or Batu Hitam shipwreck) is the wreck of an Arabian dhow which sailed en route from Africa to China around 830 CE.[3] The ship completed the outward journey, but sank on the return journey, approximately 1 mile (1.6 km) off the coast of Belitung Island, Indonesia. It is unclear why the ship was so far from its expected route back from China.[4] Belitung is to the south-east of the Singapore Strait by 380 miles (610 km), and this secondary route is more normal for ships travelling from the Java Sea, which is south of Belitung Island.[5]

The wreck has given archaeologists two major discoveries: the biggest single collection of Tang dynasty artefacts found in one location, the so-called "Tang Treasure"; and the Arabian dhow, which gives a new insight into the trade routes between China and the Middle East during that period. The treasure has been kept as one collection and, during the excavation, the efforts to preserve the integrity of the site and its cargo have resulted in detailed archaeological evidence. This evidence has given new insight into the construction methods used in shipbuilding, and the items and style of artefacts has revealed previously unknown facts about the trade between the two areas.

Thanks for the answers, although the image of sailors being killed from bones flying out of shipmates is sure to haunt my dreams

Late Medieval ships are baller.

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Slightly later early to mid 16th century ships

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrian_warfare#Illyrian_navy

Paleoveneti are pretty dope.
>Scholars mostly believe that Veneti were probably Illyrian,[8][9][10][11]

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This is cuirass of a French soldier hit by a cannonball at the battle of Waterloo. He was probably hit by a 9 punder for comparison the "lightest" gun the HMS Victory had was a 12 pounder.

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Did Victory carry swivels?

Ships after battle, notice the damage which had to be repaired.

Nope

>Venicnii
>Vennicones

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>The route for the amber trade was along the Vistula River through Germany to the Po River Valley in what is now north Italy.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vistula_Veneti
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mining_in_Cornwall_and_Devon#Expansion_of_trade

>Timothy Champion found it likely that the trade of the Phoenicians with Britain was indirect and under the control of the Veneti of Brittany.[10]
contemporaries of the Phonecians

I'm more of a clipper ship guy myself, there pretty cool.

Viking ships are the shit.

fall of the samurai

Any good book recommendations? Specifically about conflict in the Caribbean (including pirates) and or 1800s royal navy?

Mr Turtle

Battle of Hasan Island
Battle of MyungRyang
It is said Admiral Yi won all 23 out of 23 naval battles and it is said that he is not a naval officer but a cavalry officer wtf.

They utilized proto time bomb/mortar and proto-missile (non explosive) to wreck japanese ships. Then koreans built proto ironclads, turtle ships which crashed right at japanese ships breaking it and then firing all those stuffs breaking other ships wtf

Then they utilized gliders to scout enemies...

Then they had proto-multiple rocket launcher... turns out they had this long before war broke out. They made this in 1400s

>It is said Admiral Yi won all 23 out of 23 naval battles and it is said that he is not a naval officer but a cavalry officer wtf.
In East Asia, an Admiral was merely any military general that was in command of a naval fleet.

Officers back then was practically required to stay on deck during these engagements. They must have had brass balls bigger, and heavier than the balls fired at them to remain calm in such a situation.

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Honest question, how common was sodomy in the European navies of the 18th and 19th century?
I'm sure that the punishment for anyone caught in the act was severe, but still the stereotype had to come from somewhere.

Pre-dreadnoughts best ships, but ill post some ancientmemes

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>favorite type of ship
>isn't clipper ships
>he doesn't cross oceans in record time in order to be the first ship of the season to bring tea to market and command absurd prices

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youtube.com/watch?v=xIPtXpEeWFE

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I love this picture

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Fuck I didn't realize how much sleeker the surviving HMS Vicotry is

With that anti-air set up I believe it is Jean Bart, not Richelieu.

It's so beautiful, though I remember how low the ceilings were, even as a kid.
One more reason to love Nelson.

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Found these neat suits in an old manuscript. Although not very advanced, Talhoffer dreamed up a very efficient suit for working under shallow water for sailors and coastal people

But I could not imagine medieval ships fighting. Just bringing massive amounts of men towards one another and hack away. Before cannons entered naval warfare, how effective was other artillery like scorpions?

Enjoyable thread gentlemen, do keep it up.

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>spend last year studying about European forts on African coast in late 17th century
>have no idea what kind of ships they used
You just made me realize that might be important thing to add there

>spend last year studying about European forts on African coast in late 17th century

You had better start a thread on them at some point.

maybe i will one day