Why did roman legions cease to use the Lorica segmentata ? Is it purely because of administrative/fiscal reasons...

Why did roman legions cease to use the Lorica segmentata ? Is it purely because of administrative/fiscal reasons ? Is it because this plate armour was less effective in combat than the hamata ?

Any pics like that in English?

Iv read that it was too costly to maintain & construct.

One on the right looks more comfy.

The plates have to be made en masse at a blacksmithing manufactory to meet design specifications. The set would be further adjusted to fit the legionary properly, which a camp blacksmith could do pretty easily. But then the plates get damaged in battle, and they aren't so easy to repair compared to just making a bunch of wire out of melted down battlefield scrap, turning it into rings and patching up some torn mail. On top of that, all the auxiliaries and some of the legionaries are still using mail so the camp industry supporting its use is still around, and any provincial who joins the legion can take a fistful of rings and begin the laborious process of repairing his hamata.

As the legions settled in on the borders (which generations during Pax Romana had pushed much further than ever before) and changed their structure entirely (from 20k-man consular armies marching together, to border garrisons supported by provincial armies) it became so much more convenient to use mail than plates that they gave up the relatively small additional benefit that Segmentata provided.

It's mostly this, but in addition, the mail gave maybe not greater, but a different type of protection. The Lorica Segmenta had trouble protecting certain regions, especially the armpits and bits around the neck that were easier to cover with the hamata.

Damn... Late Roman uniform was so fucking Veeky Forums and comfy

too fucking expensive
by that time (augustus and so on until the late period/dominate) their legions numbered around 450.000

Good taste

The general assumption is that plate is more protective than mail, but that's not entirely true. Plate, due to its very own protective nature makes points and blades slide on it. That won't matter so much if you use a complete harness but if the state only has enough money to make a cuirass for each soldier, it is not so much more useful than a mail shirt. Imagine a spear point sliding in that lorica and ending in your throat or armpits and you'll understand.

Also, although mail is more expensive then the segmentata to make, it was cheaper and easier to maintain, which is very important when you have outposts in the middle of nowhere

Very expensive and not very useful as it seems.
Lorica segmentata was very good at deflecting missile attacks, but mele combat was pretty much the same if not worse, especially against other legions in civil war which was very common.

In the end romans realised Lorica Hamata was still more effective and more cheaper. If late Romans needed heavy armor they could've always use Lorica Squamata

tfw no squirrel pal

>tardo impero

>a thread full of reasonably accurate answers for once

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Noice

The Lorica Segmentata(more accurately Laminata) was never a common armor, only used widely for an extremely narrow space of time.

it's harder to make, harder to put on, harder to repair, harder to mantain and harder to transport than mail, only marginally lighter and more resistant, and generally only a "rich cunt, just for show" thing.

seriously, you needed someone to tie it up for you, it wasn't fit for a common infantryman's use.

I wouldn't agree that a well made hamata was more effective than a well made segmentata. As you mentioned against missiles the segmentata wins out, but tests also generally favor the segmentata against hand weapon attacks. Some say the segmentata was notably lighter than a hamata but a well made hamata shouldn't be that much heavier than a segmentata. It could just be that hamata made in different parts by different people were of varying quality.

The important thing to remember about these armors as well is that they're meant to be used with a scutum as the primary defense, and made for soldiers who marched on foot in their gear and could spend an entire afternoon standing around and fighting in a battle. If the armor left something unprotected, it was by design and not because the Romans forgot about the neck and armpits. They added ridges, manica and shin guards as needed and could even make full plate stuff like the gladiators used.

You can put it on yourself, reenactors do it just fine, though it is better to have your buddy help. I agree though that tossing on a hamata is faster, especially in the dark or when you're wasted.

>Some say the segmentata was notably lighter than a hamata but a well made hamata shouldn't be that much heavier than a segmentata. It could just be that hamata made in different parts by different people were of varying quality.

the reason the Segmentata feels noticeably lighter is that it hugs the waist very tightly so a lot of the weight rests on the hips instead of on the shoulders

also are those Crupellarii?

Yeah, I think the pic is supposed to be one of the gladiator revolts. According to literature this armor made you impervious to blows but wasn't very effective for fighting actual battles, probably due to the weight.

But seeing a 6 foot tall Gaul in one of these must have been pretty intimidating.

>That image
What the fuck is happening there?

>"In addition were some slaves who were being trained for gladiators, clad after the national fashion in a complete covering of steel. They were called crupellarii, and though they were ill-adapted for inflicting wounds, they were impenetrable to them..."

>"...the cavalry threw itself on the flanks, and the infantry charged the van. On the wings there was but a brief resistance. The men in mail were somewhat of an obstacle, as the iron plates did not yield to javelins or swords; but our men, snatching up hatchets and pickaxes, hacked at their bodies and their armour as if they were battering a wall. Some beat down the unwieldy mass with pikes and forked poles, and they were left lying on the ground, without an effort to rise, like dead men."

Not that guy, but I was thinking about why some of them seemed to be wearing Crusader bucket helmets

These gents

>tardo imperio

>Why did roman legions cease to use the Lorica segmentata?

Manufacturing armor plate is expensive and requires skilled and well equipped artisans, while chainmail can be made by a blacksmith.

> Lorica segmentata was very good at deflecting missile attacks, but mele combat was pretty much the same if not worse

Absolute nonsense, plate armor is better then chainmail hands-down, the issue is the cost.

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Non-fitted laminar armor like Segementata is generally considerably faster to make than ring mail, but requires a better blacksmith.

Keep in mind ancient blacksmiths do not have hot-drawing dies like we do. Metal wire to shape into a ring has to be made by hand, and that takes a really really long time for every ring in a mail shirt.

The cost portion of Segementata comes in in maintaining the armor, specifically, dealing with rust.

And Mail is the proper term, not chainmail.

Time traveling medieval knights aka gladiators crupelarii from Gaul.

The idea of them being bonked until they were left unconscious is incredibly funny to me

It’s pretty much just like how peasants would deal with a Knight after they dismounted him, pretty much just pile on him and either smash him to death or open up his visor and stab him in the face, killing armored men is thirsty work

yeah, but them being whacked like piñatas in the middle of a battle and just being toppled and left lying there alive is funny

also Roman armor thread?

>just making a bunch of wire out of melted down battlefield scrap
Full melted iron apared in europa almost in the industrial revolution. All the rings, plates, blades, etc, were forged.

*bonk*

HAS HE LOST HIS MIND
CAN HE SEE OR IS HE BLIND
CAN HE WALK AT ALL
OR IF HE MOVES WILL HE FALL

>tfw no fabulous pink tunic

>tfw no fabulous blue tunic

>tfw no fabulous Draco

>ossht, call that fancy?

>I seriously hope you slaves don't do this

>gambargin

god I wish I could fuck a drawing

>full boots
In the hot and humid climate of that age, you REALLY did not want fully enclosed boots, especially when you had to march everywhere.
Open laced boots like this one were best in terms of comfort.

Dude hell yeah.

Anybody have a clearer, cleaner source of the armor on the right? Or anything close to it?

You know Gambargin is a dude in real life, right user?