How did the myth of the "dark ages" become so prevalent and is there a more reliable indicator of someone being a...

>500-1000, on the other hand, was a very dark time for Western Europe. Almost no writing, no philosophy, cities destroyed, populations devastated, civilization collapsed

How to spot a brainlet: the post, I seriously hope you're just baiting.

>What was the Carolingian Rennaisance

Is there a more reliable indicator of someone being a underage atheist or a /pol/ tier neo pagan than by using the word "christfag"?

>500-1000
More like 500-800

How come Byzantine empire was never affected by this "dark age" even though it was Christian? Fucking fedoras I swear.

My ass... Classical Antiquity is the shit. Not this LOTR and GOT inspiring faggotry

A truth repeated many times becomes a lie.

>C*rolignian """""Rennaisance""""

Fuck off you G*rmanic filth

the dark ages are real.
you believe in the myth of the myth of the dark ages.
you believe this because you have been educated by postmodernists that hate everything about enlightenment civilization. (because continental philosophy has produced nothing but insane suffering, while enlightenment philosophy has produced unimaginable progress)

>Christian Dark Ages
Pardon my ignorance, but wasn't Christianity the only thing that tried to keep a resemblance of civilization and the late Western Roman Empire during the dark ages?

Yes but christians were just repairing what they broke.

...

you are driving a corvette and a bunch of germans smash it and steal everything inside and set it on fire.
now you have to drive a 1996 toyota corolla.

the dark ages are not real.
you believe in the myth the dark ages.
you believe this because you have been educated by postmodernists that hate everything about medieval civilization. (because enlightenment philosophy has produced nothing but insane suffering, while medieval philosophy produced unimaginable progress)

>because enlightenment philosophy has produced nothing but insane suffering, while medieval philosophy produced unimaginable progress
nope, enlightenment society has made everything better. if you think living in the medieval world was so awesome, why dont you go out into the forest and live like a peasant. you wont have air conditioning or electricity or medicine or modern clothes, and life would fucking suck. thats why. you know that you are wrong, and you can sit at your computer surrounded by the wonders of the enlightenment and bitch about how bad the enlightenment is, and you sure as fuck will not pay the bill to live differently.

you
are
a
liar

Christians were responsible for Diocletian splitting up the empire like a retard?

Postmodernism is anti-enlightenment.

Christians infected Romans with their slave mentality, resulting in them becoming too weak to reign over such a big empire.
The Byzantines survived for a long time but they too devolved into quasi-feudalism.

If this were true, why didn't Byzantium also fall?

>nope, enlightenment society has made everything better.
So the rise of fascism and communism, secularism, globalization, the French Revolution, the napoleonic wars, the first and Second World War made society better?
>you wont have air conditioning or electricity or medicine or modern clothes, and life would fucking suck.
You wouldn't have those in the time of the enlightenment either you dingus
>you can sit at your computer surrounded by the wonders of the enlightenment and bitch about how bad the enlightenment is
The enlightenment did a lot for science and technology, its true. However if not for the science that had developed in the medieval ages, we not have any of those things.
It's quite obvious you don't know a thing about the medieval ages that you hate so much.

>durr Christians were weak and stupid that's why Rome collapsed
t. History illiterate Marxist

its not true at all.
never listen to anything a continental philosopher says.

LARPing protestants like Edward Gibbon trying to discredit the Catholic church.

picked up later by fedoras and LARPing neo-pagans who wanted to discredit Christianity as a whole.

They were considered "dark" because it was a gap in the historiographical record, when the new ruling dynasties spoke Germanic rather than Greek and Latin and didn't write much down for early historians to study because the economy had decentralized beyond the point of needing a dedicated class of readers and writers.

Yes, the only ones keeping reading and writing in Latin alive were the clergy

Greeks are more dionysian unlike the apollonian romans so they were more resistant to the christian corruption.

>Enlightenment gave me my technology even though the progress in the mediaeval era gave way to the degenerate enlightenment snobs who shat on their ancestors and compared them to barbaric beasts for defending their country and faith

Marxism is the child of christianism.

No one had any of that shit for 98% of human civilization

Read what you just wrote and try to see how retarded it is

pol/ neo-pagan detected
Whatever pit you crawled out of, please go back to it

>fascism
fascism is expolictily counter enlightenment
>communism
communism doesnt use reason and empiricism
>secularism
is a good thing, enjoy being burned at the stake if you dont think so.
>french revolution
was a good thing. and is better than starving to death while marie antoinette does her hair and throws parties for her friends
>napoleonic wars
good thing, also, the counter enlightenment faggots started it then got BTFO, then started bitching about it. "WAAAAAAH THE FRENCH REVOLUTION WONT LET ME HORRIBLY OPPRESS 90% OF THE POPULATION THEY ARE SUCH MEANIE HEADS"
>first world war
started by the fucking germans, a counter enlightenment power. killing off germany was a good thing.
>2nd world war
started by the germans again, and killed them off for good that time. also, modern wars are by far less destructive than medieval wars. as proven by the book posted above you didnt know that of course, because you are a fucking faggot shill.

/pol/fags are christians.

>Scientific Advancement

I am absolutely ashamed that I ever took this chart seriously. Even as an ignorant 19 year old back in college, I can't believe I was brain dead enough to not question that fucking nebulous metric.

Religion>Secularism
Fact

>bullshit Nietzschean language

>fascism is expolictily counter enlightenment
Wrong. Fascism is progressive.

>Religion>Secularism
k, post your plane ticket to afganistan then.
i'll wait.

It's really awesome that these fedora wearers weren't happy with shitting up physics and cosmology but now have to come over to history to start revising it so it's all "da christians fault!"

We get it. You're still angry your parents made you go to Church as a kid. How about not letting your hateboner for Christianity inform your position on everything in life?

What’s wrong with the Carolingians?

...

Not nu-/pol/
They’re either atheists or neopagans since they started throwing around the word “christcuck”

Sure, and Reddit is the most vilified den of white ethnonationalists on the net.

I’m not Islamic. Give me a plane ticket to the Vatican and I’ll gladly go

Why do you want to stay in the shadow of God's corpse?
The bare truth of the world is not so hard to confront! Create your own meaning!

Just to know whether to engage you in a debate or not, what do you think the word progressive means? Because fascism (explicitly) wanted to bring upon the "new man", "new society", combined with technological and scientific progress and a total subservience to the state. They didn't want to bring the kings and noblemen of old, they didn't want to put the Church back in power. Counter-enlightement is throne and altar, going BACK, while fascists wanted to go FORWARD.

/pol/ is schizophrenic, mocking Christians for their "dead kike on a stick" in one breath, but railing about degeneracy and the decline of Christian morals in the other

wow it's almost like thousands of people visit that place and disagree on a number of topics

Shocking, I know, but /pol/ is not one person.

I am a BLACK man, you filthy fucking craka. Kayrol Da Bigass was a BLACK man, filthy wh*Tey. He started the RENAISSANCE before you crackas could even speak properly

we wuz MOORS not slaves. we had da advance technology long before honkies turned it into credik cards

Pretty sure this is correct. Most our records before the "dark age" were financial and fiscal, these records don't seem necessary in small feudal kingdoms

The dark ages only effected Europe. What's the rest of the world's excuse for not having fly cars?

I think it started with the Protestant vs Catholic conflict. Protestants had the interest in portraying the Catholic Church as repressive and ignorant. They may have been true in some cases but that's beside the point.

>What's the rest of the world's excuse for not having fly cars?
They had no white people

VIRTUS?

>62 replies and no one has posted the correct version of that graph

ftfy*

>fascism is expolictily counter enlightenment
Fascism was born out of enlightenment thinking and almost all of the time pro secularism and anti monarchy
>French Revolution was a good thing.
Maybe if you were a Jacobin elitist, French Revolution immediately led to a reign of terror where people were mass executed without proper trial. Why do you think that the monarchy came back after?
>Napoleonic Wars were a good thing
So you rail against Germans for both world wars that destroy Europe, but when Napoleon does it, suddenly it's ok?
>started by the fucking germans, a counter enlightenment power.
It's clear you have no idea what you're talking about. Every power in Europe was an enlightenment power in 1914 though I do agree that the eternal Kraut has a special habit for doing this kind of thing.

What was "Renovatio Imperii"?

>Germany
>counter enlightement power
You what?

Why don’t you google it?

All im getting is EUIV memes... Thats why im asking...

Keep telling yourself that, Shlomo.

How? Postmodernists hate religion and monarchy

>Yes, the only ones keeping reading and writing in Latin alive were the clergy
The clergy were the only ones ALLOWED to read and write. The only others were noblemen whose family was wealthy enough to send them studying in monasteries. Literate peasants were outright suspected of sorcery. Oh yeah the clergy preserved a lot of knowledge during this period (and they destroyed probably more), the problem is that they kept this knowledge unused. The Dark Age is literally the Age of Clergy.

...

>The clergy were the only ones ALLOWED to read and write.
No, they were the only ones left who were bothering to still do it, owing to a lack of economic incentive for anyone else.

> The only others were noblemen whose family was wealthy enough to send them studying in monasteries
It was usually second-born sons shipped off to the monasteries, knowing that the clergy was a good way of giving them a profession without the strife that may come from letting the eldest inherit everything

>Literate peasants were outright suspected of sorcery.
The average peasant was far too busy working the fields to bother with an activity that was usually left to an urban literati, and accusing someone of sorcery or witchcraft was a good way to get the church to arrest YOU for suggesting that any power existed other than God's love. Most of the witch-burning craze took place during the early modern era.

> the problem is that they kept this knowledge unused.
The monasteries would literally evolve into universities during the high middle ages. The monasteries were the ones laying down the theoretical groundwork for the rise of what we now call science and rigorous academia
youtube.com/watch?v=GJvoFf2wCBU

Henry 8th shut down englands monasteries and a few generations latter England went from being an economic backwater to europes leading trading nation.
Monasteries were a drain on a countries and its citizens finances.

>Henry 8th shut down englands monasteries and a few generations latter England went from being an economic backwater to europes leading trading nation.
Correlation without causation, and Henry VIII lived in the 15th and 16th centuries, long after the dark ages, when the Catholic Church had grown bloated and corrupt and was actively resisting reform

I think that qualifies as anecdotal evidence.

>Guise secularism is bad xDdddxxddd

>The clergy were the only ones ALLOWED to read and write.

False, merchants had to learn to read and write if they were going to do their jobs properly

And all those people you listed were Germanic Warlords and the dissolved state of the Western Roman Empire prevented European innovation being concentrated and centralized, granted the WRE were such a state of panic that innovation had been stagnated for quite some time before Romulus Augustulus was deposed.

Haha, same. Fucking fedora phase.

You can be an atheist without the edge and pretention, y'know

>The average peasant was far too busy working the fields to bother with an activity that was usually left to an urban literati,
Meanwhile the average peasant under the reign of pagan Rome was literate...

>The monasteries would literally evolve into universities during the high middle ages.
Yes that's the point. They evolved centuries later under the pressure of the secular power. Otherwise they were absolutely refractory to share the knowledge.

>Meanwhile the average peasant under the reign of pagan Rome was literate...
Bullshit. The average URBAN Roman was literate, but still not particularly well educated and prone to far more superstitious behavior. The rural peasantry was oppressed even worse than they were during medieval times.

>They evolved centuries later under the pressure of the secular power.
Secular pressure which had never been there under the Romans, secular pressure which had only been there because of the advancing of human understanding which took place in the monasteries and filtered into the lay people through the clergy, because the church had stepped into so many roles which the Roman state and the pagan cults of antiquity simply ignored.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy#Ancient_and_post-classical_literacy
>Roman society was "a civilization based on the book and the register", and "no one, either free or slave, could afford to be illiterate".
>"The written word was all around them, in both public and private life: laws, calendars, regulations at shrines, and funeral epitaphs were engraved in stone or bronze. The Republic amassed huge archives of reports on every aspect of public life".
Ok we can discuss about that forever, but it seems pretty legit to me.
What ancient Rome left: tons of written stuff everywhere and in every form.
What Dark Ages left: practically nada.

Secularism IS bad

In Europe we don't need air conditioning because we don't live in jungles and deserts like fucking Americans.

>dude just force people to believe in jesus or kill them, that's how faith works

>The rural peasantry was oppressed even worse than they were during medieval times

This depends on the period.

The Roman Republic was built upon smallholding citizen-soldiers.

...

Historically we kinda made a hard transition between "believe in Jesus or die XD" and secularism.

I'm not the guy you were arguing against, but you're literally just greentexting what he said and adding xDDD at the end. That's not an argument that's just being a cancer.

thehistoryofrome.typepad.com/the_history_of_rome/2010/03/87-thinking-and-feeling.html

Being able to maintain your overlord's ledger was an economic necessity, owing to the centralization and urbanization of Roman society. But on a whole Roman education was exceedingly poor, stifling, and did not encourage blue sky research.

>Odoacer and Theodoric successfully ruled Italy for the Eastern Roman Empire,
>successfully
got btfo by byzantines
>The Franks established the strongest state in Western Europe who began speaking Latin and Romanizing, and the Visigoths did the same in their own kingdom in Spain
those kingdoms were shitholes compared to times of rome which why it is downgrade commonly seen as dark age

Doesn’t change the fact that secularism is bad

What would be better then?

Christianity.

And how would you implant it?