Did the U.S win the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq?

Did the U.S win the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq?

It’s too early to tell.
Afghanistan is more likely than Iraq though.

is this bait?

Fuck what a waste and utterly shameful embarrassment if they didn't. Jesus christ.

Afghanistan, yes. The Taliban was BTFO, al-Qaeda was BTFO, and Osama was killed. The new government in Afghanistan is friendlier to the US and they are no longer an outer heaven for islamic terrorist groups like they were in the 90s. Groups like al-qaeda are all but dead, and even Osamas letters talk about this and how he had no idea on how to fix it. And the taliban was always unpopular, so theres no real love loss for them by the afghan people.

Iraq, in terms of military goals, yeah. Saddams armies were crushed, he was captured, a new interm government was put in place, and Saddam was tried and found guilty and hanged. But the whole purpose of this was because Saddam had WMD and was friendly with al-qaeda, but it turned out this was all bullshit. And then al-qaeda flooded in after he got taken down. and it made the whole situation, which was to combat terrorist groups, worse.

Militarily yes. It was not war, but a confused and costly occupation

Main goals: yes

Osama dead
Saddam dead
WMD making potential gone
Both governments are client states of the US although we lose influence quickly everytime we let off the gas pedal of military aid
Taliban lost most of it's control and all the old leadership is dead

The mission creep goals of making then liberal democracies all failed.

I think we're slowly realizing that Kurdistan would be a more compliant and competent vassal. If we can get them to accept rule of law and modernization, they could become a second Israel for us now that Turkey keeps acting like a shitty client.

Maintaining a military presence in both Iraq and Afghanistan means that America has Iran geographically surrounded, which was the real objective all along. America has never truly forgiven Iran for overthrowing the Shah. It also prevents Russia from getting involved in either country, which contributes to the larger American goal of preventing any possibility of a Russian resurgence. Right now, Russia is a shadow of its former self. America likes having Russia in a state of weakness, and they will do almost anything to keep that going.

>which was the real objective all along
stopped reading there.

The goal of the Iraq war was to depose Saddam Hussein so they obviously won.

You forgot that Iraq was a bulwark against Iran and now it's practically its puppet

The Kurdistan issue is one that I'm torn on. Kurdistan would undoubtedly be a more stable ally in the ME. But then we fall in the trap of a second Israel in the area, one that the US needs to be active with aiding as none of its neighbors would recognize it.

How is there not a Russian resurgence though?

They are more dominant in the Middle East than USA right now.

They lost Afghanistan, Chinks have almost a monopoly on those juicy mineral contracts

> It also prevents Russia from getting involved in either country
Russia and Iran have very good relations though, they both hate the radical Sunni's in the Caucasus

>Chinks have almost a monopoly on those juicy mineral contracts
this just proves all the gay conspiracy tards wrong though, also the fact that they made Iraq into a democractic country and they voted themselves into being an Iranian puppet state. The goal was always to make sure Afghanistan didnt harbor islamic terrorist groups anymore who were constantly attacking america. Bush being a retard and going after Iraq doesnt change this

"Either" referred to Iraq and Afghanistan, not Iran. Iran and Russia are buddies. They have been for a long time, which is part of the reason why the American government hates Iran so much.

>Who were constantly attacking America

America has had a shit ton more terror attacks either directly or inspired after 2001 than before.

If the goal was to stop terrorism, then that's an absolute failure.

They have Assad who they are propping up. Assad who controls a rump state and has very little chance of getting back east of the Euphrates.

US has Egypt as an ally, the Saudis, Israel, has Afghanistan and Iraq requiring their support, and more influence in Pakistan than Russia.

The US also has a lot of influence in Jordan.

Russia just saw it's one client in the region reduced to half it's size and militarily exhausted.

Russian relations with Turkey are just as shit as US ones, but the US has a formal alliance with Turkey through NATO and got the Turks to send troops to Afghanistan.

>The goal was always to make sure Afghanistan didnt harbor islamic terrorist groups
Then they should have fucked Pakistan over too

The Afghanistan War is still going, any war that lasted over 16 years when you are the occupying power can be considered an auto-loss.

>America has had a shit ton more terror attacks either directly or inspired after 2001 than before.
no it hasnt retard. Name ONE(1) terrorist attack on America on the scale of 9/11

>They are more dominant in the Middle East than USA right now.

By what logic? America has amiable relations with Turkey, Egypt, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Israel. At the same time, America maintains a military presence in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Russia has Syria and Iran. Last time I checked, 7 is greater than 2.

So China has lost Tibet and America lost the Indian Wars out West?

Iraq is heavily influenced by Iran, recent events might weaken that but when a lot of the power in your government is centered around Shia militias current and former training with fucking Quds Force in some cases, it's a bit of an issue

>which was the real objective all along.
M-muh 4d chess

t. retard

It doesn't have Iran. They are in a relationship of convenience is Syria.

Russia and Iran have every reason to cooperate in Syria, it gives Russia a warm water port not subject to the Dardanelles and Iran gets to put pressure on Israel

Good. Means they have skin in the game and will deploy forces to defend those assets.

Less work for the USA.

Chinks don't have to deploy shit, America and NATO are doing the job for them

Except Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Yemen are all Iranian puppets. Not to mention the large influence of Hezbollah in that area.

They were colossal failures that historians will point to as the start of America's long decline from hegemonic superpower

There's no war currently going on in Tibet and the Indian Wars were a series of wars, these are bad equivalences.

t. idiot.

>More terror attacks don't count if they don't kill as many people

Don't call anybody else retarded. San Bernadino, Orlando, Boston, New York, New Jersey, and Ohio have all had terror attacks either directly related to or inspired by Islamic terrorists and these were all after 2010, near a decade after starting the war with Afghanistan.

They also have little to do with Afghanistan considering the alleged Al-Qaeda network condemn IS as LARPing faggots

Yes, greater K:D ratio.

1/3rd of Lebanon, the Shia side, is. It's a riven country.

Rebels in Yemen control less than half the country.

Assad controls less than half the country.

So yeah, they have parts of the poorest, smallest countries.

That versus Saudi Arabia, who spends more of defense than Russia.

Israel, who has proven their ability to BTFO anyone in the region.

Egypt which has a giant military.

>San Bernadino, Orlando, Boston, New York, New Jersey, and Ohio
all those added up dont equal up to 9/11, and non were planned by networks of al-qaeda. Those were all lone wolf tier things

So Japan was losing against Chiang Kai Shek?

>Al-Qaeda is the official judge of what constitutes Islamic terrorism

Again, if the goal of the wars in the ME was to stop terrorism then it was an absolute failure and the US is still suffering terror attacks at a higher rate than before 2001. But their not harbored in Afghanistan anymore :^)

And? Are you incapable of reading? It was already said body count isn't what's being discussed but the overall number of terror attacks. Especially when the other post said the war in Afghanistan was to stop the groups "constantly attacking America"

So the war has changed the way those attacks are organized and executed but the fact remains the US is now attacked more often than before after a decade of fighting terrorism. That, as a goal, was a failure.

Had they successfully subdued China by the end if it?

Read the rules, faggot

The "War On Terror" was actually about instituting regime change in nations who fostered. aided or abetted terrorist movements, a better question is why the hell Libya was left out

>And? Are you incapable of reading? It was already said body count isn't what's being discussed but the overall number of terror attacks.
youre intentionally being an idiot if you dont realize why the US went after The Islamic Emerite of Afghanistan as a state sponsor of not only terrorism, but the harbored of the most wanted anti-US terrorist organization at the time, and a few muslims chimping out on their own. Every case you brought up was just some dumb niggers with a gun shooting up some place, or making a home made bomb, and none of them were even close to a highly organized plan with millions of dollars behind it and high profile fighters. None of them are close to something like 9/11, or Bojinka, or the US embassy bombings. And if you think the war in afghanistan was a failure because those things like orlando occurered, then you really have no idea what the point of them was in the first place

No. The entire Lebanon not 1/3rd. You are mixing up demographics with politics.

Saudi Arabia spent millions to fail at Yemen. They are mostly influenced by the Iranian backed people.

Poorest smallest countries doesn't matter when all the weapons and riches in the world can't conquer them or beat them. Oh and they're not the smallest countries. Also they are basically surrounding Saudi Arabia now.

fuck you cunt.

No seriously, why the hell is the US still in the middle east?

this is a good thread and probably the only good discussion Veeky Forums will ever have on this topic because it isnt infected with underage conspiracy fags. Shut the fuck up

Because it's hard to do sand nigger shit successfully if you lose 90% of your senior leadership every two years.

This is incidentally why all of the terrorist attacks in the US after 9/11 have one or two retards with little to no training.