What is going on with these bascinets? 5, 8, 9, 10 look especially fabricated. Is this just made up? If not, where were these pulled from?
What is going on with these bascinets? 5, 8, 9, 10 look especially fabricated. Is this just made up? If not...
Nicholas Thompson
Jose Howard
8 is the best
Jason Ramirez
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Jonathan Rivera
How can salletfags even compete?
Lucas Mitchell
dunno
Adrian Morris
That's a very good question OP. Lots of things in post-Medieval drawings are taken for granted but few non+historians check how accurate they are. Hopefully someone might know.
Jack Richardson
To be fair only nr 4 looks impractical, as it leads hits directly into weakest points of the helmet.
>hit upper part of the nose, blade slides into visor
>hit lower part, blade slides into mouth
Adrian Scott
>8
it reminds me the one in pic, the thing is that i have no way of telling you if this a legit historical piece since i cound't find any information about it outside the same blurry picture, and some people saying that it is probably a fake
Nicholas Russell
5 8 and 10 has a headshape I would concider within the term "bascinet". 9 however is just weird. I don't even know what to call it
Jack Flores
but as i looked more into it, i discovered this image, which apparently was draw by a guy named Viollet-le- Duc, here is the first line of his wiki article
>Eugène Emmanuel Viollet-le-Duc was a French architect and theorist, famous for his interpretive "restorations" of medieval buildings. Born in Paris, he was a major Gothic Revival architect.
that should raise some red flags about this whole thing, and further raise the posibility that the visor that i posted is a modern forgery based on his work
Asher Parker
>9
Isn't it just some sort of spangenhelm with a visor? Kinda like pic related but weirder.
Jonathan Smith
on a side note, there is a uncommon surving style of visor from the end of the 14th century that is modernly called keyhole visor, the problem, is that the helmet on the your pic doesn't match the general shape of the bascinets from the end of the 14th.
Levi Ward
>10
like 11 and 12 it is what is called a great bascinet, which started to show up in the 15th and stayed popular all the away to the mid 15th, the problem with it is that it is kinda of badly draw giving you the impresion the neck too tight and you cant put your head through it
Jaxson Brown
>5
to me, it looks like some realy weird interpretation of medieval iluminations
>8
i don't even know what to say about this one, my main gripe with it is that the shape the bascinet skull comes in either a rounded shape which is made to allow a great helm to be worn over it or it comes in a tear drop shape. the skull of that thing is just absolutely crazy
if you want my opinion, this just another case of stuff made in the early 20th or 19th century that is full of mistakes and inaccuracies, but somehow still floats arround just like pic related(made 1910's by a marine biologist named bashford dean) which gets reposted all of the time
Carter Cruz
>made 1910's by a marine biologist named bashford dean
They seemed so neat thought, a bit too detailed.
This author is quoted as an "expert in medieval and modern armor" and indeed he seems to be just a zoologist even though he did work in developing helmets for the US military.
en.wikipedia.org
archive.org
It does still leave you doubting just how accurate these are.
Adam Rodriguez
he was a collector of arms and armour, and later would help to establish the arms and rmour departament of the metropolitan museum of art, where he would become the honorary curator so he was an expert for his time, the thing is that him and other collectors and antiquarians of his time, loved to mod surviving pieces by attaching visors to unassociated helmets(that is where the visored barbute comes from) just to have an complete helmet, over polishing to give it a shining look and thus removing the any evidence of an original painting, thermal bluing or destroying the gilding in the process , building pieces of armour from other unassociated original pieces, based on their image of what armour should look like, all of that just to have an "complete" piece on the their collenction or to fetche a higher price when reselling, which makes the knowlodge generated in this time not only extremely outdated but also questionable.
bashford himself did some shit like that with the "met cuirass" that he made, this video can explain better what is wrong with it better than i.
t
youtube.com
>They seemed so neat thought, a bit too detailed.
to list some of the problems that i can see with that evolution chart
>great helms coming from cervellier instead of enclosed helmet which arent even there
>great helms development stopping on the 13th century
>great bascinets 50 years to early
>pigface visors too early in the 14th
>frogmouth coming from proto sallets
>those proto sallets are very questionable, and speculative
>kettle helmets only appear on the 15th
>armets coming out of nowhere
>burgonets coming from armets just because one particular exemple looks like one
>morions coming from burgonets
you can see that he tried to apply some biological evolution logic to amour, which sort of wrong since armours are not living things,
Lucas Sullivan
To add to that the lobster tail helmet is shown to come from European burgonets but is mostly inspired by Ottoman chichak
>he tried to apply some biological evolution logic to amour, which sort of wrong since armours are not living things,
And the resulting charts looks very professional and visually appealing. So I suppose that rather than being one single tree it might actually be a few separate basic designs with their own branches and sometimes these branches might even converge.
Lucas Long
Also, thanks for the info
Kevin Martin
Zounds! This is now a close helmet thread!
Jaxon Green
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Jaxson Morris
10 is based on an original great bascinet made by Konrad Treytz.
Hunter Smith
these stupid things were only worn for jousting tournaments
nobody ever wore this dumb shit in batttle
Leo Reyes
>no-one wore bascinets into battle
This fucking website...
Xavier Stewart
Actually, #7 is one of the worst offenders and not because of how the raised visor restricts vision. The maille aventail is just tucked under the helmet instead of being attached to the leather strip on the outside.
#9 could work with a central hinge like #1-4 have.
Angel Fisher
not with the face shields on anyway.
prove me wrong.
they restrict your field of view so drastically it was completely impractical for battle.
same with full suits of plate armour. you have zero mobility. if you get pulled off your horse you're completely fucked. flailing around like the fucking tin man from wizard of oz, enemies just standing laughing at you (but you can't see them cause you got a stupid fucking tournament helmet on)
Jacob Parker
sure thing m8, i watched a video of some guy that payed for an copy of this harness and watching him figth on it and the way that the gorget moves is realy cool
youtube.com
3943331
not even worty of a (you), go pretend to be retard some where else
Luis Watson
>face shields
It's called a visor.
>zero mobility
This meme has been curbstomped so many times I almost feel sorry for it.
>if you get pulled off your horse you're completely fucked.
youtube.com
Only takes slightly longer to get back on your feet while in armor and you even get fewer bruises than without.
Lincoln Sanchez
Is this bait or are you actually claiming This?
Thomas Morales
Yes user in a period where the enemy is trying to force sharp bits of metal into your face, no-one wore face protection
>but mug visibility
A non issue with a properly fitted helmet and training. Even then the visor is hinged so it can be moved if more visibility is required or to have a drink. Multiple accounts of knights being killed by being shot while doing so backs this up.
Lucas Roberts
>Multiple accounts of knights being killed by being shot while doing so backs this up.
care to share one?
these are all tournament/judicial combat helmets.
Grayson Morgan
>men-at-arms would often remove the great helm after the first clash of lances, for greater vision and freedom of movement in melee combat.
Logan Fisher
From memory
Henry, Prince of Wales at Shrewsbury (injured but survived)
Henry 'Hotspur' Percy at Shrewsbury (killed)
John Clifford at Dintingdale (killed)
James II of Scotland at Flodden (injured by an arrow to the jaw then killed in further fighting)
There are others I can't remember.
Robert Smith
James IV sorry.
Xavier Lee
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Owen Russell
No.
Great bascinets were pretty common on battlefields in the first half of the 15th century. The armets, close helmets and burgonets you listed were also intended for field use.
Especially in the 30 year war, mass-produced close helmets were often worn by armored cavalry.
Foot tournament helmets are rather stiff and heavy like jousting helmets but offer decent vision with multiple visor slits or a bar grill visor.
For the judicial combat, pretty much anything goes. In most medieval fencing manuals the fighters wear armor for field use.
Carson Lewis
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Luke Martin
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Jacob Torres
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Jaxson Collins
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Jaxon Campbell
Quod erat demonstrandum?
David Fisher
If this isn't bait, then you can watch this video.
youtube.com