How come early Turkic peoples were described as light haired and blue eyed?

How come early Turkic peoples were described as light haired and blue eyed?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yenisei_Kyrgyz
>The Yenisei Kyrgyz, also known as the Ancient Kyrgyz or the Khyagas (Khakas), were an ancient Turkic people who dwelled along the upper Yenisei River in the southern portion of the Minusinsk Depression from the 3rd century BCE to the 13th century CE. The heart of their homeland was the forested Tannu-Ola mountain range (known in ancient times as the Lao or Kogmen mountains), in modern-day Tuva, just north of Mongolia. The Sayan mountains were also included in their territory at different times. The Kyrgyz Khaganate existed from 550 to 1219 CE; in 840, it took over the leadership of the Turkic Khaganate from the Uyghurs, expanding the state from the Yenisei territories into the Central Asia and Tarim basin. The Yenisei Kyrgyz mass migration to the Jeti-su resulted in the formation of the modern Kyrgyz Republic, land of the modern-day Kyrgyz.

>Since the Turks were being described as people of small stature in the Tangshu,[citation needed] the description of the Kirghiz as tall, blue-eyed blonds excited the early interest of scholars, who assumed that they could not have originally been Turkic in language.

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumans
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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumans
>The Cumans (Polovtsi) were a Turkic[1][2][3][4]:116 nomadic people comprising the western branch of the Cuman-Kipchak confederation. After the Mongol invasion (1237), many sought asylum in Hungary,[5] as many Cumans had settled in Hungary, Bulgaria and Turkey before the invasion.

>The original meaning of the endonym Cuman is unknown. It is also often unclear whether a particular name refers to the Cumans alone, or to both them and the Kipchaks, as the two tribes often lived side by side.[7]:6 However, in Turkic languages qu, qun, qūn, quman or qoman means "pale, sallow, cream coloured", "pale yellow", or "yellowish grey".[21]:51[22]

>The Cumans were reported to have had blond hair, fair skin and blue eyes (which set them apart from other groups and later puzzled historians)

>The Armenian historian, Matthew of Edessa (died 1144), also mentioned the Cumans, using the name χartešk (khartes, meaning "blond", "pale", "fair").[40]:173[41]

>In East Slavic languages and Polish, they are known as the Polovtsy, derived from the Slavic root *polvъ "pale; light yellow; blonde".[24][25]:43 Polovtsy or Polovec is often said to be derived from the Old East Slavic polovŭ (пoлoвъ) "yellow; pale" by the Russians – all meaning "blond".[25] The old Ukrainian word polovtsy (Пóлoвцi), derived from polovo "straw" – means "blond, pale yellow". The western Cumans, or Polovtsy, were also called Sorochinetses by the Rus', – apparently derived from the Turkic sary chechle "yellow-haired". A similar etymology may have been at work in the name of the Sary people, who also migrated westward ahead of the Qun.[26][full citation needed] However, according to O. Suleymenov polovtsy may come from a Slavic word for "blue-eyed", i.e. the Serbo-Croatian plȃv (плȃв) means "blue",[27] but this word also means "fair, blonde" and is in fact a cognate of the above; cf. Eastern Slavic polovŭ, Russian polóvyj (пoлóвый), Ukrainian polovýj (пoлoви́й).[28] An alternative etymology of Polovtsy is also possible: the Slavic root *pȍlje "field" (cf. Russian póle), which would therefore imply that Polovtsy were "men of the field" or "men of the steppe".

>In Germanic languages, the Cumans were called Folban, Vallani or Valwe – all derivations of old Germanic words for "pale".[4]:106 In the German account by Adam of Bremen, and in Matthaios of Edessa, the Cumans were referred to as the "Blond Ones".[24]

Because wherever turkics went they interbred with the locals.
That's also a reason why turkmen looks different from uygurs or kazakhs or from anatolian turks.
also kivanc tatlitug has bosnian heritage if I'm not mistaken.

They were semi european at some point.

So? What does this have to do with anything? Even /if/ these populations were blonde, this has naught to do with Europeans, modern day Turks and surrounding regions would still have the largest amount of Turkic in them, even /if/ Egyptians were black, they would share nothing with the uncivilized cannibals in the western coast of sub-saharan Africa.
This is a history board, don't post unless you have anything interesting to say about Turks other than "Muh common features", why the fuck do nordicist masturbate to the idea that some bloke 3000 years ago looked like him?

Face it, blonde populations (at large) were a bunch of human-sacrificing, bloodlusty, uncivilized tribal folk until the Romans showed them the light, a common misconception is that "it was the only way for them to reach civlization", and I feel that is wrong because many civilizations including Rome made it through picking up concepts from superior neighbors.

itt: wh*Te monkeys chimping out

Looking european doesn't make a person european the most important thing is culture and self identity. For longer than 1000 years there were turks which might have looked slightly european.

>Looking european doesn't make a person european the most important thing is culture and self identity

Nice argument.
If you actually read history you would know that culture is more important than genes.
For example if you were right charlemagne wouldn't have genocided the pagan saxons who were his germanic brothers.

The ottoman elite was always white, consisting of slavic and caucasian converts and kidnapped. Ataturk has an ultra-european phenotype for example.

The brown peasant mass of t*rks has always been seen as disgusting subhumans, only fit for taxation or to serve as cannon fodder.

But Germanic is culture, as in they spoke a Germanic language. You don't know whether Charlemagne was racially related to those Saxons.

Too complicated, easier and more attractive for brainlets to believe in a purer past that fell to degregation because of (((degenerates))).

>only fit for taxation
And weirdly enough the Balkans was the cash cow for the Ottoman empire. Literally the absolute shithole of Europe was the richest region of the Ottoman empire, that's how poor the Ottomans were.

Christ, wouldn't the normal reaction to "Oh, our ancestors were historically irrelevant" be "Great, we now have all the means to make our history ourselves" instead of "Nuh-huh, in fact these people were us, this is OUR history".
I just can't fathom the process of such people.

WE

What can you expect from a bunch of kurdish-anatolian rapebabies.

They were serfs under the byzantines, serfs under the ottomans and today they are backward urban proles larping as sons of ataturk, a mass of blabbering fools voting for muh stronk Erdogan. A great example of the herd mentality, the desperate need of humans to be part of something bigger, larping on a national scale.

Or they are kurdish mountain-Turks, another bunch of backward larpers who have never amounted to anything.

In those times religion was more important than nationalism.
Also if you're implying that the germanic peoples were genetically diverse than the mutt meme can also be applied to them.

Shh >BALKAN >RAPEBABY

We were not here before Ottomans. We came, we saw, we hit the Fake Romans right in the jaw, killed them and settled in their lands.

Kurds were not in Anatolia either before Seljuks/Ottomans

The richest parts of the ottoman empire were Western anatolia, eastern thrace, egypt and syria so you can fuck off with your pseudo histroy you nigger.

And Erdogan himself is a Georgian, they're truly a nation of slaves.

But thay requires the person to achieve something, which is terrifying for people with low self-esteem, who happen to also be the racist brainlets that think genetic expression is more important than linguistics and culture

What's so georgian about erdogan?
Is it that he speaks turkish as his mother tongue, that his name is turkish or that he grew up with turkish culture whihc seperates him from actual georgians?

...

>How come early Turkic peoples were described as light haired and blue eyed?
Maybe, and this might be crazy, but jut maybe, bear with me, they were described that way because, at least some, were that way
What the fuck do you mean 'why'? Are you fucking retarded?

>name is English (Michael Jordan)
>born in New York, named after the English city of York
>mother tongue is English
Conclusion: Michael Jordan is an Anglo-Saxon

Culturally he is though and therefor he is american.
If you dropped michael jordan in a part of the congo where they don't speak english do you think that he could make his way around there?

>t. Kaba Turk
>t. Esek Turk

Fact: janissaries, the martial and bureaucratic elite of the ottoman empire was made up of caucasian and balkan non-Turks
Fact: the royal dynasty of Osman was "white" as evidenced from paintings, photos and their descendants today who can fit right in any european country
Fact: practically every ottoman painter, architect, artist,... was either greek or armenian

Fact: the Turk an sich does not exist. It is a mere concoction of raped mongrelized anatolians, turkmens, and other shades of inbred peasant tribes. These backward plebeians now desperately try to act as if they wuz Ottomans. The Turk is a mere fiction, he does not exist genetically, culturally. Only because of the huge efforts of the white blue eyed ataturk is there such a thing as turkishness for tje subhuman herd to rally behind. This turkishness mainly consists of denying war crimes and pretending the hagia Sophia is the pinaccle of turkish architecture.

Except one can blend into the native population, because they aren't radically different in appearance, and the other can't.
Do us a favour and go back to /pol/.

>Fact: janissaries, the martial and bureaucratic elite of the ottoman empire was made up of caucasian and balkan non-Turks
behind every defeat there was a retarded balkan rapebaby see siege of wien

TÜRK commanders were always the best

>Fact: the royal dynasty of Osman was "white" as evidenced from paintings, photos and their descendants today who can fit right in any european country

Ok
>Fact: the royal dynasty of Osman was "white" as evidenced from paintings, photos and their descendants today who can fit right in any european country
Fact: practically every ottoman painter, architect, artist,... was either greek or armenian

source: my ass

also Greeks and Armenians are subhuman mutts of Middle Easterners.

>we wuz ottomongs
what can you not steal

>white man with a Turkish name: Turk
>nigger with an English name: African
This is your brain on SJWism

>practically every ottoman painter, architect, artist,... was either greek or armenian
Nonsense, many were Persians. But none were Turkic, that much is correct.

Lmao at this cope

Blue mosque: non Turk architect

Hagia Sophia: byzantine

Mimar sinan: either greek or armenian

Dardanelles gun: hungarian iron founder

....

How about you show me some true t*rkish artist during the ottoman period who was not greek, armenian or a Balkan rapebaby/ kidnapped

>behind every defeat was a Balkan rapebaby

And so was there one behind every victory

Pic related are the youngest direct descendants of the house of osmanoglu

I dont claim any of them, I dont larp or identity with either Turks or greeks or whatever. I just like to btfo of turkish subhumans desperately clinging to and claiminh anything or anyone of note as being "turkish"

Erdogan is a turk and Jordan is an anglo american so stop this shit.

You don't get it do you?
Those artists etc are all turk in everything but genes which means that they are turks for everyone but the retarded autistic /pol/acks.

>One can function normally in his society because he resembles the native population
>One cannot because he's not native to the culture, completely alien to the traditions (this is assuming America has any)
This is your brain on /pol/

Those are not Ottomans. But half British mongrels. Therefore not Descendatns.

>And so was there one behind every victory
Don't make me fly to your shithole, drag you by your subhuman dinarid nose and beat the shit out of you with a hammer.

>Hagia Sophia: byzantine

WE
CONQUERED
ISTANBUL
therefore, it's our Mosque
got a problem with that? I allow you to cry


>Mimar sinan: either greek or armenian
not European
>Dardanelles gun: hungarian iron founder
who cares? European slaves doing our job.

>turkish in everything but genes

What is so specifically turkish then? Forced turkish names and language after the turkification of ataturk?

Byzantine architecture?

Turcmen steppe traditions?

Islam? An arab religion? The orthodox sunni or the sufi mystic variety? Or the strict secularism of ataturk?

What does being a Turk mean then? It means you as an anatolian-kurd serf-descendant larp as if you have anythoing in common with either ottoman royalty, janissary elite, greek/armenian artists,... and you claim belong to them, and take pride in them, when tou have nothing at all to do with them. You just desperately cover everything with the banner of turkishness, whatever that is, and then proudly share in their Achievements

>dinarid nose

Im not from the Balkans m8 thank god.

In any case, carry on shitposting and larping dumb t*rk serf

Fuck off, retard

This

Imagine being an actual fucking t*rk lmao

All those influences make the modern turk and the ottoman empire was turkish because a turkish bey started it.
Also if you go that deep literally everyone in europe is larping as iraqis.
Every time you eat bread you larp as an iraqi you /pol/nigger.

>How come early Turkic peoples were described as light haired and blue eyed?

How come many painted themselves as Chinks?

Its pretty good desu.
We have family oriented culture and an actual cuisine and history unlike the germanics and slavs.
I have to concede to the latins that they are pretty cool as cultures as well.

Their food is garbage but you’re a retard if you think Slavs and Germanics don’t have history.

imagine being this much of a smelly shitskin nigger lmfao

We are not wh*Te

>Turkish food
Just fuck my toilet up senpai

>literally smelly irrelevant tribesman dor most of their history
Woah....
pan turkism when?

>t*rk larping as an ottoman
>get called out
>/p-pol/

Sad really.

Lmaooooo

By this logic any royal family isn't of their countries ethnicity

Turk was an insult in the ottoman empire until the late 1800s when the elites realized that the only people that supported their regime were the backwards inbreeds that they mocked and badly treated.

Every thing of importance in the ottoman empire was done by non turks

>the ottoman empire was started by a Türkish beylik
>not Türkish
Based

>being this weak
You make it sound like indian food which is way too spicy.

As soon as possible desu.

>larping as an ottoman
Every subject of the sultan is an ottoman also I only threw you hipocrisy in your face you faggot.
If you are going to be so anal about borrowed cultural aspects then everyone is larping as iraqis because their ancestors started agriculture.

That faggot can't reason and is a hipocrite who thinks that all europeans are one people even when all their civilization literally got started by semites.

Yeah man the bull of the army was totally not important for an expansionist empire like the ottomans.

No he was ottoman. You would've been beaten by troops for saying that out loud in 1800

The monarch was a Turk so you're already wrong there. It's true many government officials and the janissaries were kidnapped wh*Tes though

You think the common rank and file were treated with respect.

Nope he called himself ottoman and hated Turks. They were inbred peasents too him.

Correct? I don't think this is contested? F.e. The house of sachsen-Coburg gotha is not ethnically walloon or flemish.

Just sad that smelly t*rks have to larp as ottomans to make up for their non-existant inbred serf heritage. I dont see why Ataturk took on the white man's burden to being civilization to t*rks when they amount to nothing more than a herd of larping proles.

Everything t*rks are proud of is non-Turk Lmao. Either caucasian/balkanid army, or greek/armenian/persian artists,... lmao

The Ottoman identity was basically larping though. All Muslims could be Ottomans even if they weren't Turks. Good thing Ottom*Nism never took off

And most of the administration was done by Greeks. They weren't kidnapped. Who were educated unlike the inbreeds of Anatolia. Turks had no power or say in the ottoman empire

>Started by a Turk
>Rulers start to larp
>T-They aren't Turks
Ah yes
see Even if I say I'm a Greek I'm still a Turk simple as. They still had a lot of Turkic cultural influence
They were kidnapped though? Please read a book you fag

They were either cannon fodder or part of feudal or tribal levies. The true professional army that won their wars was either caucasian/balkan converts and kidnapped, or true ottoman aristocratic elite, which was also the social elite that ruled over the t*rkish serfs.

They asked a random pasha in that part so that would be a slavshit.

The sipahis were and they were turkish.
They were literally the janisaries cavalry counterpart.

Even christians could be ottoman only criteria was being a citizen of the empire.

Is that why the sultans eventually massacred the janisaries with the help of the turkish sipahis?

>even if I say I'm a greek I'm still a turk

>turkish intellectuals

>The sipahi were traditionally recruited among Turkic landowners, and thus, the non-Turkic provinces such as Arabia and Maghreb did not have sipahi.

Read for once in your life you brainlet.

Lol do you think Turks are greeks too lol

kys

>t*rk
>reading comprehension

I meant that the t*rk peasant levies were provided either by the atistocratic land owners, or that they served in the capacity as tribal irregulars, such as basji bazooks

The bulk of the professional army existed of janissaries, and almost all high ranking officers were non-Turks as well.

>/leftypol/ chimping out this hard

No I think you are a retard confusing ottoman with Turk. Greeks could be ottoman, but Turk was a derogative term for the backward peasantry of anatolia.

>They were either cannon fodder or part of feudal or tribal levies.
>The true professional army that won their wars was either caucasian/balkan converts and kidnapped
Wrong. Balkanites/Caucasians also were part of your much derided "Cannon Fodder."

The Devshirme system sorted out boys through the Enderun program. The best and brightest became bureaucrats and court servants. Those who showed an aptitude for military skills joined the Janissary infantry, which is but one branch of the Kapikulu ("Door Slaves" = the main army personally in control by the Padishah), which included the real elite of the Ottoman Empire, the Kapikulu Spahi, which was definitely Turkish.

The lowest (and most numerous) quality boys were handed to the Timarli (Fiefed) Sipahis and became part of their feudal infantry, or "Cebelu."

No you don't understand my point retard. Ottoman identity is artifical. They were Turks genetically.

Holy fucking shit are you literally retarded do you actually have brain damage because your mother downed whole vodka bottles while being pregnant from one of your possible fathers?
The fucking bulk of the ottoman army was cavalry every fucking brainlet on this shitty /pol/ colony of a board knows this the fucking jannisaries didn't even exceed the 20k before the 17th century. Most soldiers were the landed aristocracy or in turkish called the sipahi who were as I just fucking told you turkic landowners. The other turkic cavalry without land were the akincis these did most of the raping and pillaging of the army as they were the advance guard.
If you don't even know this shit you can fuck off from this board and go back to /pol/ where you can jack of to cuckold porn and blacked.com. Holy fucking shit are you a fucking brainlet, you might be the biggest retard I've seen on Veeky Forums ad I have been here since the board first came into existance.

Only by the slavshits who thought themselves to be something after getting educated by turks.
After becoming corrupt and making everyone's lives a living hell including that of the balkan slavs the sultan together with the sipahi regiments massacred them all.

This says it all. the dumbest, the most useless non-Turks were used in the same way as the t*rks. As Cannon fodder, military serfs brainwashed by islamic and mystic preachers to die for the sultan.

Face it, t*rks were backward anatolian serfs only fit to be exploited by their ottoman superiors. Leave the real war to the janissaries turkboi, leave culture and the fine arts to the greeks/armenians/persians you Esek Turk

>landowners
>turkic
everyone knows that the turks were all peasants

Assimilated Scythian Nordics.

Hell, we could expand the level of eliteness of Ottoman Units further.

In general, all the troops commanded by the Padishah - the Kapikulu- were considered the elite, the best of the Empire.

The lowest branch of the Kapikulu was the Janissary infantry.
Above the Janissaries were the Six Divisions of the Kapikulu Spahi. Immediately above Janissaries in rank and prestige were the four Garip and Ulufeci divisions, whose names were taken from Persian military culture (Garip = from Gripvanar, the name of the Persian Cataphracts of ancient times).

Above them all were the Personal Sipahi of the Padishah and then finally the Silahtar (From the Persian word: "Sardar" meaning Armsman or Weapon's Master). Being appointed to the Silahtar was pretty much the Ottoman equivalent of a modern British knighthood.

"Turk" is not a genetic term. It is a cultural term, a nationalistic meme for an ethnic mixture of anatolian serfs

>being this butthurt for being exposed as an ottoman wewuzzer

The black sipahis were actually chosen by the sultan on the size of their bbc.
Once a year they would go on a balkan tour where they would fuck every wh*Te woman bringing them to an orgasm their small dicked husband weren't able to provide.
This process helped ofcourse with the turkification of the balkans as these black bulls left a trail of pregnant wh*Te women in their wake.

>linguistic groups doesn't correlate with ethnic groups
>durr shut up lefttpol
race bait threads are for retards who have no clue of history

Only thing that gave me butthurt was your lack of intelligence. I expected more from slavshits.

>being this retardded
The first Turkic khanate was called the goktürks aka celestial TURKS
I don't need to mention we are genetic turks because someone else already posted the relevant info

>implying I am a gopnik or polak scum.

In any case, stay mad t*rk serf. Have you said your daily prayer to Ataturk the White yet?

Fact remains that Turks have no culture of their own but larp off the achievements of greeks, armenians and persians, while they are descendants from an inbred anatolian-kurdic serf class, only fit for taxation and soaking op enemy missiles

who are you quoting? Do you even know what a correlation is?

I'll suppose you believe that the majority of Chinese speaking peoples aren't mongoloid Han.

>he thinks north and south china has the same people

(You)

haha ok

you got btfo

BLACK TURKS WERE A BLESSING FOR WH*TE WOMEN

He's right.

China has always been a cultural identity as opposed to an ethnic one.

The "Han" demonym in reality covers descendants of Northern Nomads (half of the Manchus, notably), Han Chinese themselves, and Southern Tribals memed into the Han Chinese culture to think they were Han.

you're a moron

Han Chinese is definitely an ethnicity, and it correlates strongly to a specific language group.

WE

>tfw ancestors mixed with some wh*Toids and some qt Arabs
WHYYYYY DID I HAVE TO BE A GENETIC MUTT

falseflagger cracker