So lets settle this Veeky Forums

If it wasn't for Harold Hardrada's invasion, the Saxon army would have defeated the Normans invaders am I right?

Other urls found in this thread:

karwansaraypublishers.com/mwblog/too-tired-to-fight-harold-godwinsons-saxon-army-on-the-march-in-1066/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

Godwinson almost beat Willy as it was. Normans won via luck, not the Anglo-Saxons being exhausted.

Probably not, in all honesty. There are no accurate primary sources about the extent of losses Harald Godwinson took at Stamford Bridge, or of how they were broken down between the household troops and the fyrd. Given that the fyrd was dismissed and a new one raised for Hastings, the latter's losses are irrelevant for computing total strength for facing off against William.

Furthermore, the complete lack of either missile or mounted troops among the Anglo-Saxon forces severely limits the tactical scope of what they can do. Hastings historically had them taking a hill where they couldn't be flanked and then sitting there and hoping to take the best the Normans could throw at them. And even if a battle went the other way, they had no pursuit capability, and chasing the routers is how the overwhelming majority of losses would be inflicted, an option that Godwinson doesn't effectively have.

It's not even clear he would win a battle against William's forces, nor that even if he did, such a victory would be decisive in the way that William's at Hastings was.

>not the Anglo-Saxons being exhausted

they just marched 350 km.

Not him, but none of the primary sources of the battle mention it. In any case, only the Housecarls actually made that march. The fyrd itself was raised locally.

>marched 320km in a week
>shieldwall still held the entire day
>anglo-saxon army didn't fall into disarray until Harold was killed
Any exhaustion that existed was irrelevant to the outcome of Hastings.

Goodwinson marched all the forces he had at the time to the North gathering more as he went, he already had given up in the idea of a invasion comming from the South. After Stanford Bridge he still did not know about the landing of William, he would leanerd this only at East Anglia, because of this 1/3 of his forces was in York.

The fear of death make people do some crazy stuff, but this doesnt mean that they werent exaust.

>Goodwinson marched all the forces he had at the time to the North gathering more as he went,
No, he did not.
karwansaraypublishers.com/mwblog/too-tired-to-fight-harold-godwinsons-saxon-army-on-the-march-in-1066/

Did Harold lose because of dumb peasants who fell for either coincidental or deliberate fegined retreat? I heard that they ignored Harold’s command to stay in formation. How was Harold able to put up a good fight? Compared to William or Vikings, he dont seem to have that much of experience other than some internal campaigns

Where this fucking text say he did not marched all the forces he had at the time to the North.

I think you're being overly harsh to Harold

The forces of the northern earls were destroyed and so Harold took a force from the south thereby running down his reserves.

It doesn't matter if they couldn't follow up the rout in one day, the Normans are in foreign territory and not all their force was mounted. Anglo-Saxons Earls did have horses as would their retainers, they just dismounted for battle. Sure he might retreat to Pavensy but would his multi ethnic army of mercenaries keep discipline? I doubt it.

He very nearly won m8, just read the sources the fact is William was rather lucky, if Harold had lived out the day as he nearly did he would get reinforcements and William would not

>Absent on the return to the south were many of Harold’s original army. This was due to the heavy casualties the army had sustained at Stamford Bridge, as well as a lack of vital supplies and transport needed to move all soldiers. This was largely the result of the king’s inability to procure these resources from the North Country. (Remember, the crown had no great landed estates or financial institutions in the north from which it could recruit soldiers or gather needed supplies for its army, not even if he paid for it. Politically, as well as culturally, the authority of the crown was almost nil in this part of England.)

>An old army replaced by a new one

>The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle D version refers to this as the raising of a new army.

>The classes of recruits for this new host took two forms: the ‘general’ fyrd, and the ‘select’ fyrd. The former were made up of all the freemen of an area which were obligated to turnout for the defense of their locality only. They had practically no military training. The latter was a body of part time militia that would serve the king outside of the region they were originally raised from (more information on the fyrd, as well as on King Alfred the Great’s military reforms, can be found in Medieval Warfare III-5). By these calls to the colors, Harold was able to raise another army – a new one – and have it assemble at London. Further, this meant that the bulk of this new army would be reasonably rested and supplied and ready to follow the king to the Sussex coast where the Norman invaders had landed. On the minus side of the ledger, except for the king’s household fighters – the housecarls – the bulk of the army Harold lead to Hastings against the Normans would have been untested in battle.

>I hear your navy is shit. What the fuck bro? I thought you were cool.

what could have been

I prefer not to think about it

I said: marched to the north, not marched to the south.

The Godwinson family are a bunch of evil shits that got what they deserved. I do regret that it was the Normans that finally put an end of them but it had to be done.

I'll get on my PC and explain in a minute.

Okay so we start with Wulfnoth Cild, he is the father of Godwin and the grandfather of Harold. Wulfnoth is accused of something, we don't know what, he chooses to steal 20 of the 300 ships in the English fleet while a Danish invasion was brewing. He took these ships and used them to go viking along the South English coast. The English send 80 ships after him and his men, sadly they are caught in a storm and either sunk or beached in a poor state, Wulfnoth takes the chance to burn the surviving ships. With 100 of their 300 ships now lost the remaining 200 ships are not enough to stop the Danish invasion fleet.

Godwin comes in to the picture once the Danes have taken control of England, he quickly rises to power by assisting the Danes defeat his fellow English and fighting for Canute the Great in Denmark. He is rewarded the lands of Wessex and marries a Danish Earls sister. Once Canute the Great dies the Wessex family attempts to return to England, Alfred the brother of Edward the Confessor returns to England from Normandy to claim the throne. Godwin chooses to support the Danish claimant, he tricks Alfred claiming to support his claim an captures him and blinds him. Alfred dies of his wounds.

Once the Danish king dies Godwin again chooses to support another Danish king, once this man also dies he finally chooses to support Edward the Confessor as King. Edward marries Godwins daughter, Harold Godwinsons sister, this was obviously a completely loveless marriage, Edward either never tried or she had her own hand at things but the pair never have children. Edward is well aware that Godwin was directly responsible for his brothers death, he however couldn't do anything to oppose the Godwin family. Forced to rely of Norman mercenaries and allies he managed to gain some power as King. Godwin formed an anti-Norman faction but was ultimately banished from England with all his sons. Edward put his wife in to a monastery likely with the intention of divorcing her.

Godwin returns with his sons, they have managed to gather support across England, the man who supported three Danish Kings uses Edwards Norman influence as a rallying cry against foreign rule. Edward is forced to restore the Godwin family to power and return their lands. Godwin "dies suddenly" while at a feast with Edward, while the chronicle implies a stroke or something similar its possible he was poised. I prefer this Norman legend:

>Godwin tried to disclaim responsibility for Alfred Ætheling's death with the words "May this crust which I hold in my hand pass through my throat and leave me unharmed to show that I was guiltless of treason towards you, and that I was innocent of your brother's death!". He swallowed the crust, but it stuck in his throat and killed him.

Sadly with Godwins death his sons continued his legacy, Harold managed to inherit his fathers land in Wessex which by this point included most of southern England and about a third of England. Harold was able to secure his brother to the position of Earl of Northumbria, together with his other brother the Earl of East-Anglia they controlled all of England except Mercia.

We all know that Harold also swore not to become King of England on the bones of a saint. No Godwinson deserved to be King. I am glad he died with his brothers at Hastings.

Big if true