New paper with Ancient DNA on Phoenicians

>phoenicians were not conquerors, just explorers and traders

And this is why they lost

>leftists
>only leftists bother to work with natives

Sure.

They were easily able to rival Rome on the battlefield. The Romans had more men to throw at them so they grinded them down.

They were leftists, the houses in these cities were all the same size more or less and most of the population wasn't even native Lebanese to begin with, they were multicultural and egalitarian

Phoenicians were literally Sea Jews

>this is your brain on tumblr

Next you'll be spamming some We Wuz Kangz blog (also called Medieval People of Color) at me.

Not at all, like the article says they were really inclusive contrary to the Jews who were a very exclusive monolithic civilization, it was already well known among archaeologists: Phoenician communities were multicultural, this was evident in the mixed material culture, for instance they consumed pigs in the sites in Sardinia while they didn't in Lebanon, and the ceramics were of mixed tradition. Now the genetic data confirmed what was already known thanks to the archaeological community

>"this DNA evidence reflects the inclusive and multicultural nature of Phoenician society. They were never conquerors, they were explorers and traders".

Don't blame me, blame archaeologists and geneticists. The ancients were multicolored and sure as hell multicultural

History Channel says they wuz Niggers.

Well they sure as hell were not white. They were from many regions in the Mediterranean and Mediterraneans tend to be black and brown

Start talking about the Kangs of Egypt/Israel/Morocco/Whatever.

Doesn't make them Niggers to a significant level.

>The researchers found evidence of continuity of some lineages of indigenous Sardinians after Phoenician settlement, which suggests that there was integration between Sardinians and Phoenicians in Monte Sirai. They also discovered evidence of new, unique mitochondrial lineages in Sardinia and Lebanon, which may indicate the movement of women from sites in the Near East or North Africa to Sardinia and the movement of European women to Lebanon. Combined, the authors suggest that there was a degree of female mobility and genetic diversity in Phoenician communities, indicating that migration and cultural assimilation were common occurrences.

This is beautiful

Are you so sure?

The article talks about African women too among them

>North Africa

Go we wuz elsewhere. We just had a paper on Neolithic to Bronze Age North Africans that had them as Southwest Asian with Iberian admixture. Which matches their depictions in Egyptian to Roman artwork.

You think North Africans were white lol?

They were blacks or mocha, they certainly were no Scandinavians

>I'm ignoring Ancient DNA and depictions by their neighbors for Afrocentrism
>Also ignoring modern North Africans (who can be noticeably light in the more northern areas that avoided admixture with Kunta Kinte).

Artwork from one of the sites in the article, this looks white to you?

They were brown, it's sad how Nordicists try to white wash everything

Fuck off nigger

You're treated like slaves in North Africa

>The Libyans are lighter than the Egyptian

mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/2009/01/03/the-faces-of-north-africa-from-rock-art-to-the-age-of-the-moors/

mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/2008/07/18/who-the-moors-really-were/

You tell me, tumblr. Stick to your SJW Course.

To Christcuckolds:

If you read the Bible and you cheer for the Israelites against the Phoenicians and Philistines, you are cheering for an alien race against your own kin. Cuckolds indeed.

Sure, the Phoenicians made statues for their slaves

>against your own kin
That is assuming you’re white.

My god read the article: they were not white, they were mixed with native South Europeans and North Africans who sure as hell weren't white

Somewhat related
What does Veeky Forums think about those theories that the Phoenicians manage to reach the American continent, even founding some colonies and shit.

...

mere contemporaries of the Veneti

What do the Veneti have to do with this?

eurogenes.blogspot.com.au/2017/09/ancient-genomes-from-neolithic-north.html?m=1

>We show that Early Neolithic Moroccans are distinct from any other reported ancient individuals and possess an endemic element retained in present-day Maghrebi populations, indicating long-term genetic continuity in the region. Among ancient populations, early Neolithic Moroccans share affinities with Levantine Natufian hunter-gatherers (~9,000 BCE) and Pre-Pottery Neolithic farmers (~6,500 BCE). Late Neolithic (~3,000 BCE) Moroccan remains, in comparison, share an Iberian component of a prominent European-wide demic expansion, supporting theories of trans-Gibraltar gene flow.

How will the KANGZ and cucks recover?

Check out this Kang.

>Samples aren't even close to Niggers

Shieetttt

sheeeeeeeeiiit

Who knew this board had Afrocentrics in it? Anyway, here's a story:

>A long, long time ago in africa far far away
>Captain Dutch Von Kankerkopf made the diplomatic effort to settle a dispute between two chiefs in order to prevent internecine conflict and to improve local rubber and machete production
>these chiefs were Chief We wuz and chief We waz and they were both claiming the same slice of land
>Kankerkopf said to the chiefs that the one who beats his challenge wins the land and should they both fail the Dutch Afrika Company gets the land
>the chiefs agreed to take up the captains challenge after he bribed them both with some moonshine and limes
>the challenge was to learn the latin alphabet withing a year
>needless to say the winner was the Dutch Afrika Company

>the Jews who were a very exclusive monolithic civilization
That's bullshit, at least the monolithic part. Jewish civilisation was full of subsects and ethnic minorities - it's just that the main strain of Judaism centred on the temple in jerusalem liked to pretend that they were the only true Jews.

Tin, my dude. Amber.

Tin was taken from Spain and maybe Tuscany, I doubt they went all the way to Veneto

What the hell makes you think I was referring to the Adriatic Veneti?

Because they were the only somewhat civilized Veneti?

you're a moron and have no clue what I'm even talking about. You lack in education pertaining to Phoenicians drastically in this area.

eurogenes.blogspot.com/2017/10/ancient-guanches-genetically-most.html?m=1

cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(17)31257-5

>he results of the ADMIXTURE analysis furthermore show that the Guanches carried early European farmer (EEF)-like ancestry; this ancestry component is widespread (though at varying proportions) in present-day North Africans and Middle Easterners but rare or largely absent in some Berber populations (Figure 3).

> The results reveal that this individual likely was lactose intolerant and had brown eyes, dark hair, and light or medium skin color. These results are similar for the other individuals where SNP information is available, albeit with lower coverage, suggesting that—at least for this sample of Guanches—the dominating phenotype was lactose intolerant, dark hair, light or medium skin color, and brown eyes (Table S4).

Looks like NAs being KANGZ has been killed.

...

You seem to be the only uneducated retard here, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about, is this some Polish wewuzzing about Veneti being secretly Polish?

closely related to aboriginal Berbers

moron, the Armoric Veneti of course. Not to be confused with the Vistula Veneti or the Adriatic Veneti or the Venicnii or the Vennicones. I know it can be confusing, but try to follow along.
you know the guys who Julius Caesar personally btfo? Yeah they traded actively with the Phoenicians.

The existence of the Armoric Veneti wasn't recorded before like the 1st century bc, we're talking about civilizations that date back to the bronze age, the samples were from the bronze age and early iron age, several centuries before your precious Veneti were ever mentioned or did anything worth of note, what the fuck do they have to do with the topic, you fucking retard?

haha, lets pretend you know anything about tin or Cornwall. Strabo my man.

>“After the aforesaid tribes, the rest are tribes of those Belgae who live on the ocean-coast. Of the Belgae, there are, first, the Veneti who fought the naval battle with Caesar; for they were already prepared to hinder his voyage to Britain, since they were using the emporium there [perhaps see G-wynedd in Wales]. But he easily defeated them in the naval battle, making no use of ramming (for the beams were thick), but when the Veneti bore down upon him with the wind, the Romans hauled down their sails by means of pole-hooks; for, on account of the violence of the winds, the sails were made of leather, and they were hoisted by chains instead of ropes. Because of the ebb-tides, they make their ships with broad bottoms, high sterns, and high prows; they make them of oak (of which they have a plentiful supply), and this is why they do not bring the joints of the planks together but leave gaps; they stuff the gaps full of sea-weed, however, so that the wood may not, for lack of moisture, become dry when the ships are hauled up, because the sea-weed is naturally rather moist, whereas the oak is dry and without fat. It is these Veneti, I think, who settled the colony that is on the Adriatic (for about all the Celti that are in Italy migrated from the transalpine land, just as did the Boii and Senones), although, on account of the likeness of name, people call them Paphlagonians. I do not speak positively, however, for with reference to such matters probability suffices. Secondly, there are the Osismii (whom Pytheas calls the Ostimii), who live on a promontory that projects quite far out into the ocean, though not so far as he and those who have trusted him say. But of the tribes that are between the Sequana and the Liger, some border on the Sequani, others on the Arverni.”

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mining_in_Cornwall_and_Devon#Expansion_of_trade

How does this have to do with anything in this topic?

Stick your wewuzing to the Celtic general, and the Veneti in Armorica didn't have a civilization in the periods which OP's article mentions

>Early studies of so-called "Amber Routes" were by sources quoted in messrs. de Navarro (Geographical Journal 1925) and Hawkes (8 th Myres Lecture = Pytheas: the Greeks and Ancient Europe 1975). They trace it through middle Europe to "caput Adria" (= head of the Adriatic Sea). Here were the Veneti and they in turn bring us to the origin of the name of the Veneti.

pic apparently unrelated

>WE

"""the trade of the Phoenicians with Britain was indirect and under the control of the Veneti of Brittany.[10] Champion, discussing Diodorus Siculus's comments on the tin trade, states that "Diodorus never actually says that the Phoenicians sailed to Cornwall. In fact, he says quite the opposite: the production of Cornish tin was in the hands of the natives of Cornwall, and its transport to the Mediterranean was organised by local merchants, by sea and then over land through France, well outside Phoenician control."[10]"""

>"the trade of the Phoenicians with Britain was indirect and under the control of the Veneti of Brittany.

Indirect, so it wasn't direct, isn't this about your earlier arguments about direct trade between muh Veneti and Phoenicians?

Are you agreeing with me then?

Not to mention that all the samples in the article date back to way before the veneti are ever mentioned by anyone

>under the control of the Veneti of Brittany
moron, your reading comprehension is shit. The Veneti were old enough to trade with Phonecians.

>haploshit autism
sad

>moron, your reading comprehension is shit. The Veneti were old enough to trade with Phonecians.

Not at all, by the 1st century bc the Carthaginians were defeated

Also did you read what you quote?

It's about the trade between Veneti and Phoenicians being not direct and the amber arriving to the Mediterranean through local merchants and not Veneti, it's funny how you quoted something that completely disproves what you were saying

I'm sorry you're illiterate. It's about the trade between the Phoenicians and Britain being by Veneti proxy. Veneti traded British goods with the Phonecians, deal with it.
>that damage control
Carthaginians weren't Phoenicians.

>the trade of the Phoenicians with Britain was indirect

> Champion, discussing Diodorus Siculus's comments on the tin trade, states that "Diodorus never actually says that the Phoenicians sailed to Cornwall

>and its transport to the Mediterranean was organised by local merchants, by sea and then over land through France, well outside Phoenician control

So it was NOT direct (indirect)

wow, you really suck.

Phoenician trade with Britain was indirect. Then how did the Phonecians get their hands on British tin? I'll tell you plainly, it was the goddamned Veneti who traded it with them.

...

There is no evidence muh Veneti traded directly with Phoenicians whatsoever, and even if they did they were uncivilized barbarians compared to Mediterranean civilizations, so what was the point of bringing them up to begin with?

haha moron

Stop wewuzzing you're annoying

you don't even know the definition

I don't understand, you came here and shitted up the thread with muh Veneti, I don't understand what the fuck do you want

...

...

4th grade reading level.

You think the Phonecians sailed all the way up to the Baltic Sea to trade that amber? Or did they trade for it from Adriatic merchants?

ancient.eu/Amber/
>Amber moved down from the Baltic via rivers from west Jutland across Germany and down the Po Valley of northern Italy to the Adriatic sea. From there it was carried by sea traders to the Levant and Near East. Amber beads have also been found in ancient northern and central France, and the Iberian peninsula.

Amber was already commonly found in the Mediterranean back in the bronze age way before Phoenicians showed up, it probably passed through local merchants and it's impossible to determine the precise vectors

>it's impossible to determine the precise vectors
not really. Isn't it funny that despite the fact amber was being traded in the Mediterranean before the Phoenicians your map doesn't place it there?

How do you reckon it got there anyways?

>not really.

Yes really, it was found scattered in Iberia, Italy, Sicily, Sardinia, Corsica, the Balkans, Egypt, Syria, Anatolia, Cyprus, Palestine and Greece, it's impossible to say how many hands it passed through, it came from the Baltic but it's impossible to say who brought it all the way to Iberia, it probably was many different populations.

>sn't it funny that despite the fact amber was being traded in the Mediterranean before the Phoenicians your map doesn't place it there?

Where? What are you talking about?

>How do you reckon it got there anyways?

As I said it came from the Baltic region but it's impossible to say how many different people carried it to the Mediterranean, it probably followed more than one route and it almost certainly was carried by more than one population, I doubt some proto Vikings carried it from Scandinavia to Israel.

By the time it arrived to the Mediterranean it probably had been passed through three different populations at least

Looks like the average collage student in the late 70's

The Armoric Veneti specifically were Celts, or at least identified as such. The Adriatic Veneti were celtizised, and it's possible the same thing is true of the Vistula Veneti. I'm inclined to think the lot of them were Beakers related to the Atlantic Bronze Age system and possibly Lusatian culture, or some other Corded associated GAC proto-Balts sublimated by Urnfield culture but admittedly it's a little shaky.

They weren't Scandinavian or Slavic, I don't see why you have to lean so heavily on the strawman and WE memes.

>Strabo
>But Strabo rejects this theory as insufficient to account for all the phenomena, and he proposes one of his own, the profoundness of which modern geologists are only beginning to appreciate. 'It is not,' he says, 'because the lands covered by seas were originally at different altitudes, that the waters have risen, or subsided, or receded from some parts and inundated others. But the reason is, that the same land is sometimes raised up and sometimes depressed, and the sea also is simultaneously raised and depressed so that it either overflows or returns into its own place again. We must, therefore, ascribe the cause to the ground, either to that ground which is under the sea, or to that which becomes flooded by it, but rather to that which lies beneath the sea, for this is more moveable, and, on account of its humidity, can be altered with great celerity. It is proper,' he observes in continuation, 'to derive our explanations from things which are obvious, and in some measure of daily occurrences, such as deluges, earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, and sudden swellings of the land beneath the sea; for the last raise up the sea also, and when the same lands subside again, they occasion the sea to be let down. And it is not merely the small, but the large islands also, and not merely the islands, but the continents, which can be lifted up together with the sea; and both large and small tracts may subside, for habitations and cities, like Bure, Bizona, and many others, have been engulfed by earthquakes.'
wew

Tbf Hanno the Navigator stated that there were tribes of dark skin people (Ethiopians) by about the Draa River in Central Morocco.

Secondly it's pretty much recognized that in the Draa and certain oases of North Africa there were local indigenous blacks and more recent blacks from the Sahel.

Finally while it's interesting to look at the remains of Canary Islanders they are but one splinter group of a very mixed region. It seems as though they were enslaved and dropped off in different islands because they did not have sea worthy vessels and certain animals only had certain livestock showing several landings.

Another fascinating take I learned from my grandfather was that only the "standard" black of people's were called Blacks.

So my father and I would not be seen as black in his village but rather "white" which has a very different connonation in North Africa and varied subregion to subregion and ethnic culture to ethnic culture.

North Africa is very complicated, we aren't merely Eurasians with minor or no Sub-Saharan ancestry. We are descendants of a Mesolithic backcrossing over 20k years ago who mixed with preexisting people we would today call subsaharan.

I believe that's the reason why the oldest North African maternal haplogroup is found in of all places Tunisia and it's "L".

It also explains how layered the region is given the radical shifts in climate the facilitated travel and also inhibited movement of people's at various times these past 100k plus years.

>PLoS

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I have some sources from Eurogenes that show that the overall SSA admixture in North-Africa ranges from 10-12% on average, which is about equal to the percentage of WHG admixutre, the rest being mostly basal-rich. Apperently, Bell-beaker Iberians did introduce agriculture to the region and influenced the genetics, it is a matter of opinion if you want to consider that 10% significant or not.

They use old population models

This one is newer but doesn't take into equation Ethio-Somali heritage

journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1002397

This study

journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1004393#pgen.1004393-SnchezQuinto1

Mentions this
"A single prehistoric migration of both the Maghrebi and the Ethio-Somali back into Africa is the most parsimonious hypothesis. That is, a common ancestral population migrated into northeast Africa through the Sinai and then split into two, with one branch continuing west across North Africa and the other heading south into the HOA. For the Ethio-Somali, the lowest FST value from the ADMIXTURE estimated ancestral allele frequencies is with the Maghrebi (Text S1), which is consistent with a common origin hypothesis. In contrast, the Maghrebi component has lower FST values with Arabian, European, and Eurasian ancestral populations than with the Ethio-Somali, which suggests that the Maghrebi diverged most recently from those populations, and might indicate separate back-to-Africa migrations for the Ethio-Somali and the Maghrebi. Unfortunately, the FST estimates alone are not robust enough to distinguish between single or separate back-to-Africa migrations. While the FST estimates for the ancestral populations are, in theory, free of confounding admixture, they derive from a simplified model of population history that is known to be inaccurate (simultaneous divergence) and are all assumed to be in Hardy-Weinberg equilibrium [57], [106]. As a result, fine-scale differences in pairwise FST among ancestral populations should be interpreted with care."

I'm very hesitant to believe all agricultural modes came from Neolithic Eurasians, we have evidence of penned native mountain goats and a possibility of a native cattle culture and Date Palm culture.

Possibly, but the most significant agriculture mode is cereal growing, which seems to be introduced through Europe.

Interesting, seems like there is a possibility that back to africa migration is much older that I thought it would be. Where would these mesolithic migrants plot as?

The foundations of the majority of North African diets centered around dates and camel/goat milk until quite recently.

Barley was appreciated crop but kreb fields tended and cared for by pastoralists such as kram-kram fufilled grain needs until quite recently except the coast and Rif.

>except the coast and Rif
Funny, is that not supposed to be a somewhat different region compared to the rest of the Magreb.

They are a subset of very ancient Afrasians that re-migrated back.

My guess is they'd be plotted with Eurasians but that's due to bottle neck and drifts rather than actually being Eurasians

Anyways here is a Reconstruction of Kiffians native to the region during the first phase of the Neolithic Subpluvial.

Climatically, ecologically and material culturally their are distinctions.

South of the rif, through the arid lowlands to the arid Atlantic coasts and into the Saharan Montane there is a vast continuum of niches and localized food economies.

Bump