Plato

>Justice is doing what I tell you.
What the fuck was his problem?

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Wisdom.

t. sophist

judgment must be made by a swift and decisive hand

Pretty sure he actually wrote that justice is minding your own fucking business.

Also, everything said in the Republic was said better in a different dialogue, and the overall project was done better by the Laws.

>that justice is minding your own fucking business.
Yeah, the businesses he told them.

Your status was determined by your bronze-tier soul, peasant. Now please, focus on your duties and keep your nose out of matters that are beyond your ken.

You don't get to decide what you're good at, true.
Having a problem with this is infantile

Uh no? If justice is minding your own business then why the hell is he advocating for a state that stretches so deeply into people's business? Even if the city is just a big metaphor for being a just man, plato/socrates clearly outlines some revolutionary ideas that could be in part inpacted in Athens.

Remeber, Athens was under the Spartan tyranny at he time. Whatever the hell would happen if any when the tyrants were kicked out was more of an open question. His Rule by Philosophers, and the manner he outlines for it, is much more in line with the Communiat Manifesto or the Doctrine of Fascism.

>Also, everything said in the Republic was said better in a different dialogue
Literally not true at all. The Republic is one of Plato's finest works because of how it ties together his whole political philosophy with his theological ideas.

Laws was entirely different. Laws were about various different sorts of things, like the development of governments, and the development of man also.

The Republic was a well put together book and should be treated as such. It's like The Statesman on steroids. The Statesman and The Republic is really a better comparison, dude. The metaphors and allegories in The Republic are very similar to beautifully woven symmetry of man and state in The Statesman.

To be honest though, no. Nothing Plato has done comes close to The Republic. Symposium is obviously up there. Everyone always talks about how beautiful the Symposium is, and you know what they're right. But it's not as beautiful as The Republic.

Man I have read The Republic twice and re-read sections of that damn book all the time. It's like a bible. A religion. A way of life. All of it is beautifully constructed.

But I don't wanna go all Garfield pipe-strip on you, just saying man.

you're making me emotional, user

First, he literally indicates that justice is minding your own fucking business. Second, it's not that he's pointing his nose inot everyone's affairs, so much as he's trying to properly demarcate boundaries.

Finally, Athens wasn't under "Spartan tyranny" when the Republic was written. That's just a plain falsehood.

This is some brainlet-tier horseshit. Lmao at you pretending that the Symposium is somehow the second best dialogue. If you've actually read other dialogues, and you do mention the Statesman, then you ought to know better.

I mention the Laws because of its scope, although it is of course the superior text in regards to certain specific topics, such as theology. Similarly, many other dialogues deal with specific issues in a superior manner.

The Republic is not the worst document ever written, don't get me wrong. But lmao, just lmao; you reread that shit like the bible? Dear me, how embarrassing; I don't even know where to begin. Kallikles beats up Thrasymachus for his lunch money. Parmenides makes republic-tier Socrates cry over his forms. The list goes on. Lmao don't show your face around here, even Plato hates you

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Tyrants
>The Thirty Tyrants (Ancient Greek: οἱ τριάkοντα τύραννοι, hoi triákonta týrannoi) were a pro-Spartan oligarchy installed in Athens after its defeat in the Peloponnesian War in 404 BC. Upon Lysander's request, the Thirty were elected as a government, not just as a legislative committee.[1]
>In The Republic, Plato mentions Lysias, one of the men from Athens who escaped the Thirty's reign of terror. Lysias' brother Polemarchus "fell victim to the Thirty Tyrants".[18]

Have you even read the book? Its not simply "doing your own thing" people can't listen to certain kinds of music, eat certain kinds of food, live lifestyles of their choice in his state. The Guardians are literally moral busybodies.

I've never read Plato's Republic and only know it from a commentary by Igor Shafarevish in his book Socialist Phenomenon.

Is it true that Plato wants a society with no social mobility, a polygamist "guardian" class who are told 1984 tier propaganda because they should not know about injustice, and also these the "philosopher" class who are just basically oligarchs? Am I missing anything?

>Lmao

Opinion Rene Descarted

If you don't believe in objective morality, or by extension a divine entity, then The Republic is probably beyond you.

It is truly for the contemplation of the greats in this world. Ones who are destined for great positions because of God.

Kek. To this day I still have no idea how some people in 2018 can unironically like greek philosophy. Even if you want to look at them in the context of 400 B.C., the chinks had already done much more and much better works of philosophy by the time Plato wrote anything.

these ''´´philosopher´´ class' essence is made of ´´gold´´, and therefore, they aren't allowed to touch it.
the philospher king.. ''´´despises´´´, ´´*´avoids´´, *´´honors and recompenses''´´ because, then, he wouldn't be a true philosopher

That sounds like what a slightly retarded Confucius would say.

Read your own source, the Thirty fell at the end of the 5th century. The Republic was not written in the 5th century. The end.

I have read the book. I commented on the definition of "justice" in a snarky but accurate manner. Nothing you say contradicts this and you are dead wrong to claim that Plato wrote the Republic while Athens was under "Spartan tyranny".

Reminder that to believe in Daoism you must believe in God as well.

You have nowhere left to run, criminal scum. Believe in God or perish.

I like Classical Chinese texts and even think we ought adopt Zhou era ancestor rituals, but you are seriously deluded if you think Chinese texts present us with some vastly superior account of metaphysics and theology.

>If Plato's society was around, Socrates would never have been a philosopher because of his low birth.
Really makes you think.

Not really, since in that society all newborns were raised into a common pool so families and inheritance wouldn't be a thing

That's not what he says though

No different from what police does today, enforcing the morals of the society.
By minding your own business he meant doing the job you're best at to your full capacity. I don't see how these are conflicting

You can't just read the conclusions of a dialogue whitout the reasoning for it. All philosophy is stupid if you read it this way.

Except that the whole society was built around finding those "souls of gold and silver" among all the "brass and bronze" and the like.
You're a fucking idiot and didn't read Republic.

>people ITT saying justice was described as minding your own business
Wasn't justice the product of using reason to determine what was good, and acting according to it?
Essentially, having a virtuous will, like the Stoics taught.

Yet still, It was close enough. This guy perceived the most perfect commonwealth as an fuckboy state ruled by some three neckbeard fucks.

but that is wrong user

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Tyrants#Socrates_and_the_Thirty
the tyrants were in Socrate's time, not at the time of the writing of the Republic

I'm paraphrasing but I recall Socrates description os a just state as a state where everyone does their specific function and not anything else.

yes, but because that is what best serves society/civilization

it's certainly not justice in his mind to just "do whatever you want bro, mind your own business though" if that was what was being implied previously.

yes and no.

the republic is primarily an allegory on how to be a just individual using a theoretical society as a framework based on plato's theory of the tripartite soul. the actual political implications for such a society rely on very specific presuppositions about the people in said society, the most notable of which being the so-called benevolent philosopher-king/dictator.

just read it dude. it's not that hard of a read and it's really interesting.

I'm pretty sure the correct wording would be "knowing your place, is justice".