Where the FUCK did the Picts come from?

Scholars today will just say "Celts" but it's circular reasoning IMO

How so?

Because scholars assume all of Britain was Celtic-speaking they find evidence to fit the theory and that evidence is then used to support further inferences of the same type in different scenarios, resulting in a sort of circular reasoning. This is common with a lot of British place names east of the Pennines that were given spurious Celtic etymologies generally less accepted today.

Okay, but doesn't this work the other way? What proof do you have the Picts were not Celtic speaking?

He's saying that if one theory is proven incorrect, the ones that use it are all incorrect

I don't have any evidence that the Picts were or weren't Celtic-speaking, but in truth no one has any such evidence, because the linguistic legacy of the Picts is so extremely scarce. We only have best inferences, which in the end either convince you or they don't. The words generally believed to be Pictish may be solely limited to personal names, by way of comparison with Goidelic ogham stones, or they may not. There may be Goidelic partials inside of Pictish, or the stones themselves are Gaelic or Goidelic and only the names are Pictish, or possibly some other third or fourth option. And so on. We don't know. Bear in mind that the assumption for Picts being Celtic-speaking is not based on the stones but on place names from areas believed to have been controlled by the Pictish kingdom. It's the same reasoning that was misplaced in trying to give Celtic etymologies in places like Kent.

Fair enough. I think, given the admittedly limited evidence, there isn't any real basis for presuming the Picts were radically different from any other of the inhabitants of the Pre-Roman British Isles.

They're the pre-Mesolithic population who stayed behind in Europe while the others went West into the Americas.

See: Serpent mounts in West/North Europe as well as in North America and the Solutrean Hypothesis.

Where r the proofs billy

inb4 haplogroup with no archaeological evidence to back it up, which could just be and probably is the coincidental re-emergence of west eurasian genes in amerindian populations via the bottleneck effect

The Picts were Hyperborean God-Men who spoke a pure Germanic language and were descended from the Scythians

Also the Gaels are Golems which the Picts sculpted from clay who then went insane and killed off their superior masters

Also, buy my book, it's a collection of ancient Scythian poetry found in Scotland, which I totally did not write myself

Giving me heavy Supermen by Bowie vibes.

>What did they mean by this? No seriously, what DID they mean by this?

it means they hadn't met the Koreans

Oh yeah, I forgot about Haplos. R1 is found in East America in high amount among Native Americans. Also, Mtdna X.

Check out the serpent mounds in the US and scotland

Scottish archaeology student here.

Literally never heard of a "serpent mound" over here. You want barrows, got plenty of them.

how old are they? Burials?

Yeah we got cists, cairns etc. Neolithic, Bronze Age.

But they're just big piles of stone, nothing particularly distinctive.

What IS a serpent mound?

not
that user, but extremely interested in mounds including kurgans.

Seems to be an Adena construction in Ohio.

wait there are similar mounds in Ontario too wtf?

Probably because they have fallen into ruin.

andrewcollins.com/page/news/Rotherwas.htm

This: Is a drawing of one from 1883, Loch Nell.

A few others are the mound at Avebury. The Rotherwas serpent mound. And, Skelmorlie mound is in Ayrshire.

youtube.com/watch?v=Pmjms3JiS1s

p-picts were amerindians

G-guys?

it was clearly Amerindians who crossed over to Atlantic Europe, not the other way around

t.Jack D. Forbes

youtube.com/watch?v=nq2WY_MD3Dk

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toggling_harpoon

>Toggling harpoons are first associated with the Red Paint culture of New England and Atlantic Canada (c. 5500 BC to c. 4000 BC). The earliest known toggling harpoon head was found at a 7000-year-old Red Paint burial site in Labrador, at the L'Anse Amour Site.[1][2] They were probably used to harvest swordfish and seals, the bones of which have been found at Red Paint sites.[3]

>Toggling harpoon technology was later used by the Thule tradition (c. 700 BC to present) of the Western Arctic, in the Bering Strait area and further south along either Asian or Alaskan coasts. The toggling harpoon was part of a hunting technology that focused intensely on the sea, and it improved life in the Arctic by providing eased subsistence to the sea-mammal hunters living there.

>Whether the harpoon of that type was an Inuit invention or whether it is older in "Red Paint" cultures of northeastern America remains to be seen. As noted, a "true toggling harpoon" was found in Labrador dated at 7500 bp and the possibiliy exists that it "just might be the oldest such weapon found anywhere in the world." In any event, it would appear that the harpoon used for Arctic-style hunting is an American invention that spread to Asia and Europe, clearly by human contact.

"...in the Orkney Islands north of Scotland, as at Skara Brae, there are sites reflecting circumpolar culture of the kind still surviving among Eskimos and allied peoples, dated late in the third millennium BC (4500-4000 BP)."

"During the "Red Paint" era, there is some evidence that the Gulf Stream may have gone further north along the northeast coast of America before turning eastward toward Ireland and Britain. If this is true, then voyagers from northeast America might well have been brought more directly to northern Scotland, Orkney, Shetland, and Iceland during the period before about 3500 BP. "

>Jack D. Forbes

why does everyone have to "come from" somewhere else eons ago? why can't they have just been native?

The Vennicones were certainly among their number, they seem to have been a tribal confederation that formed in response to Roman expansion.

According to some historians, they were the last of the Stone Age men, the degenerate descendants of Atlantis and King Kull from before the Cataclysm.

But no one wants to believe the truth.

Not even

They were illiterate brythonic cave niggers who got conquered by big dicked Gaelic Irishmen.

Pictland

Robert E Howard is a canonised saint

Also Kull > Conan

uno mas

I will just add that both Picts and Newfoundland Indians were tattooing themselves.

The Rathlin island Bell Beaker genomes from 2200 BC Northern Ireland were genetically similar to modern Irish and Scots. This means that the Indo-Europeans had already invaded and exterminated locals three thousand years prior to the Pict extinction.
So Picts were just pre-Celtic Indo-Europeans at best. Considering geography it is indeed in the realm of possibility that their language may have shared slightly more with Germanic than Italo-Celtic.

Avebury's a henge not a mound?

There are a couple of enclosures at Skelmorlie, but nothing like this thing over in Ohio, they're probably just farmstead boundaries to keep animals in.

I'm not able to find anything about that engraving at Loch Nell, can you be more specific? Find it on canmore.com.

So do Berbers and Thais, so what?

The """Pict extinction""" hasn't been taken seriously by scholars for decades now.

based

so where did they go?

They returned to their home planet.

they left but now they're back and they hate you

JUST

They didn't go anywhere, they just gradually adopted gaelic culture after their own aristocracy adopted it.

Bede's probably never even spoken to a pict, let alone been to pictland, you think if some shepherds up in the hills were still speaking some Gaelic/Pictish hybrid language that he'd know any better?

Then they all started speaking english a couple centuries after anyway.

Northumbrian master race here.

hmm idk
they probably just got rapebabied and their culture went extinct basically overnight

fukkin Dál Riata

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaelicisation
>In the 9th century, the Picts were becoming Gaelicized, and it is suggested that there was a merger of the Dál Riatan and Pictish kingships.[55] Traditionally, this is attributed to Cináed mac Ailpín (Kenneth MacAlpin), who became king of the Picts in about 843. Some sources say that Cináed was king of Dál Riata for two years before this. Under the House of Alpin, Dál Riata and Pictland merged to form the Kingdom of Alba or Scotland.[56]

pls
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridei_III

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaelicisation
>>In the 9th century, the Picts were becoming Gaelicized, and it is suggested that there was a merger of the Dál Riatan and Pictish kingships.[55] Traditionally, this is attributed to Cináed mac Ailpín (Kenneth MacAlpin), who became king of the Picts in about 843. Some sources say that Cináed was king of Dál Riata for two years before this. Under the House of Alpin, Dál Riata and Pictland merged to form the Kingdom of Alba or Scotland.[56]

Yeah, that isn't taken too serious either. I think the Irish chronicles are still using the "King of the Picts" for another 6 kings after Kenneth.

The theory I've heard is that Giric and Eochaid took the throne in a coup, so the rightful heirs grew up in Ireland where their aunt was Queen of Mide (if memory serves). So when they retook the throne a couple years later, they were culturally Gaelic.

>Moravians
What the fuck
t. Moravian

The capital of Scotland is still named after a Northumbrian.

btfo in 685 though

>Most scholars agree that Pictish was a branch of the Brittonic language, while a few scholars merely accept that it was related to the Brittonic language.[4]
>Wales, Cornwall, Brittany
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Brittonic

So Picts were probably related to the British.

What?

Eidyn's Welsh.

Edwinsburg.

Dun Eidin is a post-rationalisation.

>Edinburgh has also been known as Dunedin
>Dùn Èideann
wait was Tolkien fucking with me the whole time?

>Din Eidyn
>Some sources claim Edinburgh's name is derived from an Old English form such as Edwinesburh (Edwin's fort), in reference to Edwin, king of Deira and Bernicia in the 7th century.[9] However, modern scholarship refutes this, as the form Eidyn predates Edwin.[8][10] Stuart Harris in his book The Place Names of Edinburgh declares the "Edwinesburh" form to be a "palpable fake" dating from David I's time.[11]

Lothian has been Angle for as long as the rest of Northumbria. The capital of Scotland just 'happens' to have a Celtic etymology, unlike literally every city in Anglo Britain?

Smells like a Scots nationalistic post-rationalisation.

not Scot, Briton.

Eidyn appears in the Welsh poem Y Gododdin.

And you smell like British nationalistic post-rationalisation.

Or, rather, revisionism, which is what it is.

they were BLACK

There were all beautiful mixed race women who played volley ball in bikinis on the banks of the Tay.

I'm not him, but is Y Gododdin a reliable source for something like this, given its lack of firm dating?

It's so easy to spot muh Celtic Fenian retards

Got a source for that claim, friendo?

What did they mean by this anyways?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Lot

idk could easily be Norse.

Well, look at it the other way. Is there any evidence of the place being called Edwinesburh prior to even the latest datings of the Y Gododdin.

It's perfectly plausible, the poem got the name of Gododdin/Votadini right, and plenty of other Welsh/Gaelic place names survive in Lothian.

Back to the Lodge with you, Billy boy.

>It's so easy to spot muh Celtic Fenian retards

It is plausible certainly but I find the Welsh/Gaelic etymology not much better than the English one. It is questionable that the English (I suppose the Angles) would drop the "din" (which is not exactly cognate with -burgh) but preserve Eidyn, not to mention that generally towns predate the castles or forts inside them. So to me it is unwise to rely on Y Goddodin in this case because even in the event of a very ancient dating you could still have loanwords passing one way or the other. It could equally be that Eidyn was a loan into Welsh rather than vice versa.

Yes, but again, given the lack of any real evidence to the contrary, it seems the simplest answer is that it's of Brittonic origin.

Could be a loan from Pictish, but, again, where's the evidence?

Pictish was probably Brittonic, or else closely related to the branch. There's conjecture about a pre-Indo-European substrate.

link unrelated
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O'Rahilly's_historical_model

Yeah, sorry, should say loan into Cumbric from Pictish.

A Pictish origin is an interesting thought, it's not impossible either. (Although even here it could have been borrowed either into or from Welsh, or it could've been Anglicised). That said, the little that's been transliterated from Pictish is very strange, so if it were ever Pictish it was probably only in part.

Haha what are the chances, I was right

Nobody wants anything to do with """"Celtic""""" retardation which all emanates from the Irish. The Scots are Welsh want noting to do with you and it hurt you terribly.

I'm not Irish.

t-this

And look at the haircut of the guys on the left of this pictish stone. A very typical mohawk style common among Amerindians.

I really hope youre joking.

They are Celtic, like every fucking one is this shit hole before the Anglos.

So far the similarities we have found are: Serpent mounds, tattooing practices, shared DNA haplogroups, similar tool making (Solutrean hypothesis) and similar hairstyles.

But your reply wasn't meant to invoke discussion on this topic but rather to directly character assassinate me so you can shift the narrative, making me look like a fool while you take victory for whatever reason or agenda you are dedicated towards.

>Solutrean hypothesis
your chronology is a little off, maybe 5 or 7 millennia
it's more likely Amerindians discovered Europe first

There are no serpent mounds in Scotland.

Tattooing and similar harpoons can easily be coincidences.

Similar hairstyles is just absurd.

The haplogroups evidence is either pseudo-scientific nonsense, or you're misunderstanding it.

You and your theories are a joke. Please leave, this is a serious board.

>There are no serpent mounds in Scotland.
that's not true though.
curious, what other theories do you think user has?

It is.

You seem to think Avebury Henge is a "serpent mound". It's clear you have absolutely no knowledge of british archaeology.

I don't personally. Loch Nell definitely though. Rotherwas and Skelmorlie seem to check out too.

THE SCOTS ARE SCYTHIANS, CAME FROM ISRAEL, TO ABOVE THE BLACK SEA, THRU EGYPT, THRU SPAIN, INTO IRELAND AND SCOTLAND.

SEE DECLARATION OF ARBROATH,
SEE PICTISH AND SCYTHIAN ART SIDE BY SIDE,
SEE HUNDREDS OF BOOKS AND ARTICLES ON THE SUBJECT.

Except the Loch Nell and Skelmorlie mounds don't seem to exist, and your only evidence for Rotherwas is literally some dude's blog. It's nonsense.

Not to mention it's all built upon the assumption the Picts were a Mesolithic, non Indo-European ethnic group that somehow managed to survive into the post-Roman Iron Age, it's nonsense.