What was China's beef with based Chiang Kai Shek?

Are you seriously implying that America could have saved that idiot from himself?

Seriously look at the aftermath of the encirclement campaigns. You know, with the long march. Triumphant Chiang, forcing those dirty commies into the Long March. Except of course, he never actually managed to draw revenue or manpower from Anhui, Jiangxi, or Fujian. Normally, it goes without saying that if you win the battle and have your soldiers patrol the area, it's under your political control, but the GMD managed to fuck that up.

America giving him money was just throwing it down a hole. Without an overhaul of the entire system, he had no way of winning the chinese civil war.

Jiang Jieshi was a murdering warlord monarchist who tried to wipe out the will of the workers and peasants,he also collaborated and gave half of china to Japan

You do know he is a controversial figure in Taiwan, don’t you?

He was corrupt and incredibly incompetent, it's amazing he managed to fight Japan for as long as he did. I think he could have beaten the communist though if the war with Japan never happened or escalated beyond Manchukuo to his credit.

Because he was so incompetent the burgers almost started preferring the Ccp unironicly

fpbp

He opposed communism and separatism.

When Mao was launching his precious Cultural Degeneration Movement, Chian was doing "Chinese Culture Reviving Movement", completely the opposite.

Therefore, Chian was hated by both commies and separatist traitors, this also indirectly proves he truly is the old fashion nationalist.

He was a stubborn brainlet.

This+1

He's based enough to won Northern Expedition, Second Sino-Jap War, the title of UN founder and permanent member of UNSC for China.

And HIGHLY OPPRESSIVE against commies and filthy separatists. ABSOLUTELY BASED!

Read this, then decide.

Well, Chiang, not Mao, overthrew the Republican Chinese government, so yes, he did.

>America giving him money was just throwing it down a hole. Without an overhaul of the entire system, he had no way of winning the chinese civil war.

Wasn't the American res Pissed as fuck with how corrupt Chain was?

Don’t know who he is but my Taiwanese friends always talk shit about him.

Yes, I live in Taipei. I'm not the "Maoists get out" guy. Personally it's just fucking funny to me that there are monuments and memorials scattered all over to this guy that nobody even likes that much anymore (and, hell, to hear some older people talk about him, one could be forgiven for thinking that nobody ever did).

I wonder if this will happen in the future with Mao after the CCP collapses.

Which is it? Did he give half of China to Japan or was he highly oppressive to separatists? Could you post your respective sources?

blame the japs
without them the Nationalists would still be in charge

US """journalists""" is why
>Look at how cool Stilwell is, fleeing from an encirclement he caused!
>We went for a tour around Yan'an and the commies actually are the good guys!
>We should give money to them, they fight better than the Nationalists!
>Stilwell got sacked? REEEEEEEEEEEEE

people act like fake news is a recent phenomenon, but it's been going on for a long time

*Jiang Jieshi

His son was better, hell Li Zongren was better

It wasn't unusual for him to have to pretend to be different commanders to even get some units to move, America can't save anyone from something like that

Blame the Soviets

Calling this man based just shows how degenerate our times have become. He was possibly the most incompetent and corrupt piece of shit China has ever seen, why the fuck you think the rural people and workers joined Mao in droves.

He and his retarded generals would literally tie their own soldiers together with ropes so they couldnt flee from their shit treatment and corruption.

KMT units were wiping the floor with the CCP army in Manchuria post-ww2, they only had to retreat to the cities once the Americans stopped supplying ammo, which started the chain of debacles that led to the Chiang retreating to Taiwan

if America hadn't been so hopelessly naive and self-serving, the KMT might have actually won

>He and his retarded generals would literally tie their own soldiers together with ropes so they couldnt flee

You expect us to believe this horsehit?

>KMT units were wiping the floor with the CCP army in Manchuria post-ww2
Is having an your best equipped and trained army surrender to the CCP what you call "wiping the floor"?

Nah, I excpect you to do research on your own you retarded gypsy.

it's true tho

t. KMTboo

Why don't you judge by yourself?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War

There is one guy actually did plan to give half of China to Japan, it's not Chiang but his enemy, this guy.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Jingwei

that only happened after the burgers enforced an arms embargo on the ROC and ammo stopped coming in

Actually they'd renewed it by then, turns out tanks are fucking useless in a country with a shit rail network, who'd have thought?

they never did renew it tho

aid pretty much stopped around 1947, and no further support was given for the remainder of the war

Which is why those KMT armies surrendered to the CCP in late 1947?

Meanwhile if you look at the PRC and RoC today, you’d see who has done a better job maintaining Chinese culture.

Ironically, the PRC is closer to Chiang’s vision of China and the RoC is closer to Mao’s.

[Citations needed]
>aid stopped in 1947

> You can X without being cummunist
Fuck I fucking hate those commie nigger kike tactics

This

>America stopped sending aid in 1947 so they lost lyl!
>War was decided in 49

Or, just putting this out, they lost maybe because their political legitimacy was shot to fuck by their own corruption and paranoia that people in China became fencesitters at best and at worst, found a rosier alternative in Commieshits?

The KMT was paper stronk than Communist armies even during the retreat. Also consider that Communiggers received only moral support from the USSR and a few pieces of surrendered G*rman equipment.

It's totally not like the KMT took the brunt of the Japan invasion while the c*mmies took advantage of the situation

>What was China's beef with based Chiang Kai Shek?
He was completely retarded.

>Backed by the worlds leading superpower
>American trained and equipped army 4 times bigger than your enemy
>Enemy is literally peasants using japanese bolt actions
>alienate 90% of your country by backing the middle classes and showing open contempt for the peasants
>lose, repeatedly, for years
>keep using foreign aid money to invest in US real estate anyway
>lose more
>get stuck on an island and become so terrible than even your most ardent supporter goes over to being friends with the commies.

Winston Chuchill

- I must enlighten you upon the American view. China bulks as large in the minds of many of them as Great Britain.… If I can epitomize in one word the lesson I learned in the United States, it was ‘China.’ Americans had long been sold on Chiang Kai-shek as a valiant warrior and Southern Methodist democrat, but in England the more realistic British enjoyed a radio comedy program that featured a Generalissimo character named General Cash My Cheque.

>It's totally not like the KMT took the brunt of the Japan invasion while the c*mmies took advantage of the situation
The KMT took the brunt because they were the legitimate government of China. So the KMT didn't take the brunt, China did.

The communists at that time were small and could only do guerilla operations, which they did and it gave them a lot of experience to fight the nationalists.

>It's totally not like the KMT took the brunt of the Japan invasion while the c*mmies took advantage of the situation
Not an argument.

>Chiang consistently goes "THE JAPANESE ARE NOT THE THREAT COMMUNISTS ARE!!!"
>Own generals beg to form Second Unified Front with commies versus Japan.
>KMT buttfucks its own political image amongst the Chinks.

In addition the Commies fought as part of the NRA after Chiang relented and agreed to the Second Unified Front and got shrekted in their own battles with the Nips.

The KMT did not take the brunt against the Japanese; the Sichuan clique did, against the objections of the KMT.

Incidentally, the existence of large, independent armies under their nominal rule is a big part of why the KMT lost to the Chi-coms.

>most ardent supporter goes over to being friends with the commies
Who?

China at War by Hans van de Ven, might be wrong about it being 1947 but it was definitely around that time

not going to look up the page just for internet points

>Chiang consistently goes "THE JAPANESE ARE NOT THE THREAT COMMUNISTS ARE!!!"

And who won against the KMT in the end?

protip: not the japs.

they could have done a lot more, and they knew. Zhou Enlai was genuine about his support for the United Front at least, and wanted to send troops north to fight the japs, but Mao wanted to stay in Yan'an and preserve his strength.

>Chiang, my Generalissimo.
>You are Government of China now.
>You must choose to prioritize between two wars.
>Would you unite the country and go to war against a foreign invader that has consistently BTFO China's armies and have done barbaric acts of cruelty to your people, and are advancing to take the rest of the country as we speak?
>Or would you insist on fighting a bunch of Commies cornered in the mountains?
>...

I mean, it's not like he didn't prepare against the Japanese as well.
The commie hunting was almost entirely delegated to the local warlords.
Meanwhile Chiang was building up the Central Army with german training and equipment, foreign arms purchases and the like. He also built a lot of fortifications around China, like the so-called Chinese Hindenburg line. Building industry in the safer hinterlands was heavily incentivised, etc. etc.
he had been preparing for years.

can someone shop the quote "if you only knew how bad things really are" onto this picture?

not that hard to do yourself pham

No, he was a complete retard so it’s no wonder Mao (another retard) won.

Ty i was personally too lazy. Had a good chuckle seeing it

The CCP had 250,000 soldiers in 1937 (remember how Chaing just got done raping them for a decade instead of the Japanese) and they lost 400,000 during the entire war.

Are you surprised that a tiny Chinese army lost fewer soldiers than THE CHINESE ARMY?

>north
I hope you are not this retarded

You need to fuck off back to

>I’m wrong so I won’t prove my claim

The U.S. gave Chiang weapons support until March 1948, and we restarted are weapons support in October 1948 once it became obvious that he was losing badly.

Why exactly did Chiang need foreign support to beat the far weaker CCP?

>The commie hunting was almost entirely delegated to the local warlords.

Why exactly do you think Mao ended up in Yan’an?

You have that backwards. The GMD troops were primarily posted along the northern border of Sichuan to keep an eye on the Chi-Coms. Fighting the Japanese was mostly palmed off to the warlords; 2/3 of the overall military losses of the Sino-Japanese war were sustained by SIchuan clique troops.

>Beijing isn't north of Yan'an
k

because the final encirclement campaign was, as an exception, done by Central Army troops

>Outnumber enemy 3:1, bankrolled by the most powerful country in the world, controlling all the key ports and cities of the country
>Lose

yet the Central Army was almost entirely destroyed following the battles of Shanghai and Nanjing.

>be utterly exhausted after 8 years of war
>unpopular because of necessary but understandable unpopular wartime policies
>struggle to reassert control of a 100 million recently liberated people
>then lose to someone that never went through any of that
numbers aren't all that matters, you know.

*understandably

I'm American and this is the kinda shit that is the reason I love Churchill. He was by far the most pragmatic British Politician to ever live.

Speaking as a Brit, Churhcill had a very strange sense of pragmatism, often being on point (The withdrawl of the British expeditionary force, the destruction of the Bismarck, etc) and often not (The attempt to keep an African Empire after Indian independence, Gallipoli, Invasion of Norway)

USA.

You do realize that the war went on for years in both directions of those events, right? That's like saying that the French defeated Nazi Germany, they won a big battle at long odds at Bir Hakeim.

This is a really cool picture.

>tfw everything out of China is either social-realism gommie trash or ai-weiwei tier contemporary let's be weird for no raisin Western trash

>General Cash My Cheque

Fucking S A V A G E

Trad Chinese art was quite utilized in Commie Propaganda until the Cultural Revolution hit.

I'm sorry, but I don't really see how that's a good comparison.

during the sino-japanese war the central army was mauled at shanghai and nanjing, and the remainder was sent down into Burma.

Oh sorry my greentext should read

>everything out of china TODAY is bad

I really wish they stuck with it the way the Japanese did with their Japanese arts and crafts. Imagine what a porcelain vase would look like today had the collapse of the dynasty and all the following shit not gone down.

OP here, I'm so glad to come back to this thread and find this. Thank you user

>I'm sorry, but I don't really see how that's a good comparison.
Because they're both individual battles in the context of MUCH larger wars. Shanghai was only in 1937, after which the Japanese had been running amok in Manchuria for six entire years, with the GMD not lifting a finger. Battles like Wuhan and the 39-40 winter offensives were much bigger, and actual Sinic victories like Suixian-Zaoyang or Changsha were done on the backs of warlord troops, not "core" GMD troops.

You are bringing up statistical blips and then trying to pretend that they were the norm. I don't know if you're just ignorant or trying to push an agenda, but the statement that the GMD was fighting the Japanese and palming off the job of containing the chi-coms to the warlords is quite simply backwards. For fuck's sake, there were EIGHT German trained divisions at their height, at a time when the GMD claimed, at least on paper, 515 divisions.

I admit, I was wrong, and worded my case poorly.

Basically what I meant to say is that while Chiang is often quoted as to thinking the communists were a bigger threat than the japanese, his buildup for the war with Japan was far more extensive than the war with the communists.