Can /his red pill me on Ukrain's situation?

...

t. "cockholes came up with american constitution"-tier ukrainian.

Because ''Ukrainians'' are literally Polonized Russians living in the western part of modern Ukraine, on the western side of Dnepr.
Most of the other lands were colonized by both them and other Russians through history, and modern Ukrainian territory is simply a geographical thing/communist product.
It's like asking why are there Serbs in Montenegro or Bosnia. They are people who didn't abandon their identity, simple as that.

Basically just geopolitics. Russia wants friendly regimes on its border to act as a buffer against pro-EU/USA countries and to leverage Russians who still remain in those territories as part of that strategy.

>muh russia

And we have a President that praises this shithole.

>muh non countries

B-but user, the Internet told me Russia is t-traditional and w-w-white

>previously ethnically homogeneous areas.

ITT

Trump is just wishing he could rule a country without opossition and critics, that's why he has a hard on for dictators like Putin.

president of Russian Federation has almost no executive power. Putin is as much a dictator as Elizabeth II is.

Da, user, Vladimir Vladimirovich has no power. It's all democratic and the Duma is the voice of the people. Hail Putya.

>Vladimir Putin
>Powerless

(you)

>Vladimir Vladimirovich
It's Putin, as in Vladimir Putin........

not an argument

strawman

You are retarded

not an argument

Vladimirovich is his otchestvo (patronymic name). Addressing someone by their first name and their patronymic name is the traditional form of polite address in Russia.

Estonia was famously difficult to govern under the Czars due to ethnic differences.

that didn't make it "ethnically homogeneous" by any stretch of the imagination. Estonia was literally governed by a German upper-class

And then the Russians came and liberated them.

The Ukraine, literally "borderland", is a made-up country that got its paper-thin identity by being overrun by western empires and acting as a borderline between Russians and non-Russians.

At the end of the day they're part of the wider Russian family which consists of Moscow, Kiev, Belarus and I'd argue Novgorod as well. This is historically called "All Russia" and the denominations were White Russia (Belarus), Little Russia (Ukraine) and Great Russia (Russia/Muscovy). The Kievan Russians view the nation-state of Russia as Moscow-dominated - which hurts their pride. Belarus, in comparison, generally look favorably towards Russia and only divided by political circumstances.

The Ukrainian language is basically the same thing as calling southern American dialects their own language.

To conclude, the entire idea behind the present-day state of Ukraine is the idea of being a traitor to your grand Russian race, dividing the Russian peoples, in favor of "self-determination" (read: serving as a potential launching pad for the US into the Russian heartland). The Muscovy-based Russians have historically tried to stamp out this treachery but were ultimately unsuccessful. I guess there is not much one can do once this virus takes hold.

With all that said, let's assume Ukranians are real for a second. Crimea is by all means Russian and ended up in Ukraine due to infrastructure-related reasons during Soviet times. Russia boldly annexed it during the turmoil to secure its strategic interest and defend the Russian population. The West pretends to be outraged but it will blow off eventually because they know that there was nothing really wrong with the annexation except for the way it was carried out (diplomacy wasn't a realistic option anyway) and because it was against the EU's interests.

The southeastern parts were Tatar territories annexed by the Russian Empire and incorporated into Ukraine much later, hence the inherent strong Russian influence.

+1 rubble
Good job, fellow Muscovite

>Russia annexed it to defend the Russian population
From?

Which part do you disagree with? :)

A state which deems its pro-Russian populations a problem which evidently is the case

What exactly are you implying?

It's the typical Russian propaganda mixing some facts with half-lies and outrageous lies.

Both Ukrainians and Russians are scum
Ukrainians are hardcore neo nazis who think genocide is okay and even surprised Germans in their cruelty in WW2.
Russians are basically Tolkien Orc hordes personified. Wherever they go, they bring rape, crime, destruction, poverty and are basically the antithesis of civilization as a whole

That the Ukrainian state would do its best to make life hard for those populations, make sure Russian interests were not catered to (like the naval base and pipelines) and the typical arbiters of human rights would very likely look the other way while this happened. The only thing that would keep them in check would be a Russian threat, or in this case, outright annexation.

Feel free to call them out. I really have no special affinity for Russia and used some harsh words for attention.

>repeat the official Russian propaganda 1:1
>I really have no special affinity for Russia
lol

>Ukrainians are hardcore neo nazis who think genocide is okay and even surprised Germans in their cruelty in WW2

source for both claims please

looks like samefagging putin troll squad

>everything argued by Russia is automatically wrong/propaganda
kys desu

I reserve similar sentiment for other countries and scenarios like Pakistan, Cyprus and Catalonia.

Let's put it this way, what do you think would be a fair outcome for the Ukranian question?

> That the Ukrainian state would do its best to make life hard for those populations

You realize this happened after Russia invaded.

Ukraine passed it's first law placing restrictions on Russian language in 2017.

>The Ukrainian language is basically the same thing as calling southern American dialects their own language
Ukrainian language and Russian language are as different from each other as Italian and Spanish

literally common knowledge
do you want me to provide a source about holocaust too?

>And what can they do to finaly stop the conflict?
Deport all Russians or hand over Novorossiya seem to be the only choices

It's not that far, I'd say it's more like the difference between Bavarian and "German".

Dude, don't you know every Slavic language is Russian. Everything is Russian. Russians should totally rule all the Slavs. If anyone doesn't agree then he's fascist and bought by CIA.

This is not even a Ukraine-specific issue. Pretty much every country in history has enacted such measures to quell perceived or real fifth columnists populations. Let's be honest, from Ukraine's perspective they're fifth columnists and Ukraine has to do what it takes to ensure its security and hold of those regions.

Due to the degrees of mistrust and resentment between all parties involved I see no potential for a deal (that could easily be violated) that would guarantee their rights . From Russia's perspective they're a Russian population under threat with zero guarantees living under a regime that hates everything Russian.

No only Belarus and Ukraine :^)

>Novorossiya
Oh, what grand dreams were had by the manlet tsar. They even had demonstrations all over the new Russia, but sadly those were far away from the Russian border and no soldiers on vacation could come.

This, Crimea is a rightful Tatar clay. Slavshits fuck off.

That has nothing to do with the subject though.
Yes, Russia is not that great, however Ukraine is still an artificial country in it's present borders, and it's borders were defined by communists.

It's Greek

It's Gothic and therefore German

Goths aren't German.

Looks like you and your buddy (buddies) here lack any arguments so you just resort to calling people Putin trolls and vatniks.
How exactly are you different from Putin trolls and vatniks? You use the same methods.
What, your Eastern European shithole is somehow special and justice is on your side, so you just need to call someone Putin troll on the internet and you won the argument?
What an idiot.
Go troll like that on /k/ or /pol/, here at least try to use some fucking arguments. Guy made a post, point out the ''half-truths'' and ''lies'' in it, or just piss off you dumb fuck.

>Eastern European shithole
If you're a westerner fuck off from this thread this second.

>it's borders were defined by communists
Yeah by deporting Ukrainians into Gulags, and sending millions of Russian immigrants into Ukraine
Not to mention the Russification of Ukraine during the Russian Tsardom

Delete this

He's probably some Russian heritage fag who is defending his mother's cunt's country. For such a great country they do emigrate a lot.

I'm Montenegrin.
>deporting Ukrainians into Gulags
Just Ukrainians?
>and sending millions of Russian immigrants into Ukraine
Was that a planned resettlement, or simply people moving for jobs and other stuff?
Provide sources in any case.
Also, millions of Russian immigrants came before Soviet times. You know most of modern Ukraine was conquered by Russian Empire from Tatars and Turks, right? Those lands were then settled by both Russians and people from western part of modern Ukraine. And many others, even Germans.
>Not to mention the Russification of Ukraine during the Russian Tsardom
What Russification?
Standardizing language and education and stopping foreign attempts at sowing separatism?
Ukraine is an artificial anti-Russian (and anti-Polish) construct.

Notice I never said Russia is a great country.
You're just imagining shit because you lack any arguments.
Calling shit a shit is not pro-Russian thing, it's just pure reason.
Pretending Ukrainians are some special nation totally different from Russians, when all the historical evidence points otherwise, is fucking ridiculous.
Pretending Rus' realm was ''Ukrainian'', pretending that modern Ukrainian borders weren't literally drawn by Bolsheviks, pretending that same Bolsheviks didn't work hard to create Ukrainian identity to fight ''Russian chauvinism'', that's just fucking bullshit, plain and simple.
I even agree that in contemporary times there is an Ukrainian nation, mostly in the part of Ukraine across the Dnepr, as I said.
By origin, they are simply Polonized Russians, who were later dragged into a distinct identity.
But east of Dnepr, it's literally just Russians.

>>Ukraine is an artificial anti-Russian (and anti-Polish) construct.
>everything that i don't like is a social construct

Oh, you're that autistic Serbshit putinbot.

Furthermore, this ''Russia is a shithole'' argument, and Ukraine fucking isn't?
Ukraine is FAR worse than Russia by every fucking metric.
It really opened my eyes when I saw Western liberals and other shitheads totally ignore the glaring faults in Ukrainian government, society, state and formal and informal ideology, simply because they are against Russia.
Fucking Poroshenko became some democratic martyr, even though elections in which he was elected were a fucking sham that would put North Korea to shame.
Just shows you that Russian cynical approach is indeed correct. Western elites played their card too many times, now even their own population doesn't believe them, that's why Russian propaganda is working marvels.
It's all the same shit.

>everything that i don't like is a social construct
By artificial I mean that the creation of Ukrainian identity wasn't an organic process, it was literally a project of a part of their elites and foreigners.
Oh, you're some random shithead from Eastern Europe who can't write a meaningful post even if his life depended on it.
Whoever the fuck I am, this is not /pol/, so either dispute my claims or fuck off, as I said.
Calling me Serbshit and autistic is not an argument.

>Russia could use nuclear weapons on them.
Are you actually retarded or something

>Western elites played their card too many times, now even their own population doesn't believe them, that's why Russian propaganda is working marvels.
Fucking this, the Americans could be saying "Fuck Russians, America Yeah" and it would be far more effective and convincing than the whole humanitarian shit they're lying to people about.

he praises it when it needs praising and admonishes it when it needs admonishing

It's pathetic how they don't understand that though, so they think that just doubling down on their present methods will turn things around.

I'm mostly concerned with how poor their understanding of memeology is. It's their damn job.

Or maybe this is some elaborate scheme and we're the real fools here.

Ukrainians are russians in denial

It's more complicated than that, they're also Polish in denial

nemoj se snijma boriti jer oni nece ikad da priznaju gubitak

>ukrainian land
Let's start with the fact that Ukraine is a fake and artificial country.

What it America, just a buch of British colonies pretending to be something else
What is Italy a bunch of different ethnicities united by Garibaldi 150 years ago, they didn't even speak italian (modern italian is just the tuskan dialect) they all speaked different dialects
What is Russia, just a leftover of Kievan Rus' and Mongol rape babies

>Mongol rape babies
Such retarded memes just show the extent of your historical knowledge.
Those identities are organic. Ukrainian one is not.

>Ukraine is an artificial non-country
>I'm Montenegrin
lmao

...

>I'm Montenegrin
Then why do you use Eastern European as an insult considering Easterners look down on you for being a Gypsy? You don't even have blue eyes, how the fuck do you dare act condescending to anyone?

Montenegrin Serb. And yeah Montenegro is rather less artificial.

I do have blue eyes though. Lol.

>American, Russian and Italian identities are organic

In the sense that they weren't created by foreigners and collaborating elites, yes.

>Furthermore, this ''Russia is a shithole'' argument, and Ukraine fucking isn't?
>Ukraine is FAR worse than Russia by every fucking metric.
No, idiot. The "Russia is shithole" argument is used when Russians and subhuman putimboos like you try to imply Russia is a white Christian traditional etc. country while the West is decadent, gay, Muslim, etc.
Only Russians try to actually feel better by comparing themselves to their shithole ex-colonies.

Then stop pretending to be a Serb.

But I implied no such thing. Why are you constantly putting words in my mouth?

So what am I?

Nebeski Srbin

Either you're blue eyed or a Serb, can't have both.

And nobody compared Russia to Ukraine. You created a strawman to feel smart.
You're autistic and arrogant, thinking you're much smarter than you really are.

>To conclude, the entire idea behind the present-day state of Ukraine is the idea of being a traitor to your grand Russian race, dividing the Russian peoples, in
most important Ukrainian land where people have strongest identity (Kiev, west of Kiev, and Lviv) were mostly under Poland for longer than they were under Russia

So you don't take into account the Cossack Hetmanate, and the Ukrainian Peoples Republic.
Or was it all just a product of Russians

Does that mean by your standarts that they are Polish now?

Galicians hijacked the land of ukraine. There NEVER was an identity separate from the russian one east of Zhitomir, just local dialects that are mostly phonetic. Even in Galichina, locals called themselves Russians. Even in Carpathorussia, people to this day call themselves Russians even if their language is even more different from Russian than Galician(ukrainian).

This marked the birth of the "ukrainian ethnicity", together with the brainwashing after 1991.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalerhof_internment_camp

And BTW I'm Bulgarian and have to interact with refugees from THE Ukraine on a daily basis.

They're less different than Polish and Polish silesian and croatian and serbian, and these two pairs are considered the same language.

Galician(Ukrainian) is just Russian with polish words and "i" replacing "o" or "ye".