How common were traps/cross-dressers in the ancient world?

Cute.

This was apparently a big thing in the Ottoman Empire. If you had reached puberty but were still without facial hair, you were fair game for any man.

Why are trannies such egregious wewuzzers?
>if I can map my fetish onto an historical precedent, it won't be a fetish, and I'll be a real girl

who said i was a trannie you dumb autist

>were respected
[citation needed]

>implying that isn't true

Haven't you got a seeping open wound to be dilating?

pretty common everywhere really, it's christian Europe that is an outlier

In Babylonia, Sumer and Assyria, certain types of individuals who performed religious duties in the service of Inanna/Ishtar have been described as a third gender.[181] They worked as sacred prostitutes or Hierodules, performed ecstatic dance, music and plays, wore masks and had gender characteristics of both women and men.[182] In Sumer, they were given the cuneiform names of ur.sal ("dog/man-woman") and kur.gar.ra (also described as a man-woman).[183]

Khanith or Khaneeth (Arabic: خنيث; khanīth) is a vernacular Arabic term used in Oman and some parts of the Arabian Peninsula and denotes the gender role ascribed to males who function sexually, and in some ways socially, as women. The word is closely related to the Arabic word mukhannath (مخنث "androgynous"), a Classical Arabic term referring to individuals with an androgynous nature.[1]

John Money summarizes material presented by Unni Wikan in an article titled Man becomes woman: Transsexualism in Oman as a key to gender roles. According to this account, the mukhannath is the "bottom" in a male same-sex relationship.[2] Because of this, khanith are considered men by Omani standards and are often considered an "alternative gender role"[3] – and sometimes considered as being transgender or transvestites[4] – even though the khanith are still referred to by masculine names and are treated as male by the law.[3] Because of this confusion in terminology, many people refer to the khanith as khanith alone.[4]

The khanith are considered a specific third gender category in the Arabian Peninsula. And although they behave like women and have same-sex relationships with other men, at some stage they may one day "become a man" and give up their lifestyle for marriage and children.[5][6]

Femminielli or femmenielli (singular femminiello, cf. Standard Italian femmina, "a female", -ello, masculine diminutive suffix) is a term used to refer to a population of homosexual males with markedly feminine gender expression in traditional Neapolitan culture.[1][2] It may be hard to define this term within modern Western notions of "gay men" versus "trans women" since both these categories overlap to a degree in the case of femminielli (see: Third gender.)[2] It has been noted that this term is not derogatory and does not carry stigma, instead femminielli are traditionally believed to bring luck.[1][2] Ironically Achille della Ragione suggests that recent surveys have shown that Neapolitans have a generally negative view of what he calls "the politically correct model of homosexuality of a hypocritical do-gooder society" (implying the mainstream Western gay culture), yet he contrasts femminielli as enjoying a favorable attitude from the part of Neapolitan society.[3]

Māhū ('in the middle') in Kanaka Maoli (Hawaiian) and Maohi (Tahitian) cultures are third gender persons with traditional spiritual and social roles within the culture, similar to Tongan fakaleiti and Samoan fa'afafine,[1] and analogous to the Neapolitan femminiello.[2][3]

Notable māhū include kumu hula Hinaleimoana Kwai Kong Wong-Kalu, and performer Cocoa Chandelier.[4]

Despite the population numbering only around 6 million, the Buginese are a very powerful people and they have heavily influenced the politics in the present day states of Malaysia, Indonesia and Singapore. The current Prime Minister of Malaysia, Najib Razak and the current Vice President of Indonesia, Jusuf Kalla are both Buginese.

The Buginese people recognise five separate genders.[11] These are makkunrai and oroané, which are similar to cisgender male and female respectively, as well as calabai, calalai, and bissu, which are less easily comparable to Western ideas of gender.[12]

Chinks has eunuchs which were basically castrated boys wearing female clothes

Please fuck off this board

you please fuck off, you're really delusional if you think people like him are the problem with this board

>Historical facts aren't true because muhh /pol/ bullshit

fuck off faggot

Transgender people are part of creation myth in much of Asia
In writing about transgenderism in Thai society, two academic researchers have employed

"The Tai Creation Myth" (as found in Peltier) in order to rationalize the apparently institutionalized/tolerated existence of kathoey in contemporary Thai culture. Chris Beyer (of Johns Hopkins University) is the author of War in the Blood (1998), a book which investigates the spread of the HIV epidemic throughout South East Asia, and the effect of the virus on specific at-risk populations. In a chapter entitled "Other Genders" Beyer discusses the acceptance of kathoey in Thailand, and presents the northern Thai origin story. I reproduce his version in full below:

The great mother created three beings, the first man, the first woman, and the first katoey. The katoey was jealous of first man's love for his wife, and killed her to have first man for his own. Because the katoey was also male, the marriage with first man was childless. The great mother killed them both and started again, creating second man, second woman, and second katoey. This time the second katoey felt his male energy, and was jealous of the man. He killed him, but wanted to live with the second woman as a sister, not a wife. Again the union was childless and again the great mother killed them both. When she created third man, third woman and third katoey, she pulled the third katoey aside and told him that he must let the man and woman live together and produce children so that creation could go on. The katoey would have a special role, but had to accept this marriage. The katoey agreed, and the Lanna people came into being, filling the valley with their offspring. (164)

Just a reminder to everyone, since this is a humanities board, that just because some backwater embraces a third gender doesn't mean the west can and should.

Also whenever you use the word gender John Moneys dick hardens in his grave.

>west
A mere blip on history of Asia, just like Mongols in history of Europe

why that dosent sound like a very tollerant transfriendly myth at all

thinking that you are the opposite is just a mental kink
i dont get why people are so scared of womyn with dicks,the only real strong front we needs is against true unfettered degeneracy like pride march or fetish furry convention

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacha_bazi

There's a literal Caste of them in India. The Hijras.

Worth noting that some societies had very different views regarding castrated traps as opposed to those still having balls.
For instance, in some societies having somebody like Sarina as a concubine wasn't considered homogay (merely eccentric) whereas having Natalie Mars as one would likely be.
It's the origin of the whole "it's not gay if balls don't touch" thing. Castrated traps weren't considered male, despite still having a dick.

>why people are so scared
I don't think scared is the right word, Amanda.

Wasn't it proven it was fake news, that he's american?

Ofc he's American, holy shit.

Never mind then, I misunderstood.

>implying humanity will exist in 1,000 years

pope joan literally never existed

trips speak

He's not wrong though. It was a thing throughout Asia and the Americas for thousands of years.

Native Americans and Polynesians considered Transgender/"Traps"/Cross dressers completely normal.
In fact I think Samoa or Tonga if you have like 4 boys, the fourth boy will be raised as female. This is why when you're in NZ, there are FUCKTONNES of cross dressing/trap Islanders.

brb new zealand

Yes, go to New Zealand, but first and foremost get lost from Veeky Forums.

The Romans had a mystery cult dedicated to the fertility goddess Cybele whose devotees would crossdress, wear heavy makeup and yellow wigs, and during their annual "Die Sanguinis" festival would parade through town with shrieking horns, clashing cymbals and wild chanting to work themselves into a frenzy for the purpose of the ritual: covering the goddess' altars and images with their own blood. They'd slice themselves up to bleed all over the altars in a manner similar to how they thought Cybele made rain for crops, and the most fervent would chop off their own testicles and sometimes dicks for the fertility goddess. Her castrated priesthood, the galli, cross dressed and were regarded as not quite men or women by other Romans.

Highly recommend looking up some of the passages describing their rituals, some possibly written by participants. It gives off this HP Lovecraft kind of vibe of insanity and lurid imagery.

Source on the trap?

>what is reverse image search

having the balls removed = lacking testosterone which mean somebody who got it down as a kid will not have their voice drop and their facial features more androgynous or female since lack of testosterone means a skull does not develop masculine facial traits like browbone, angular bones ,etc.

if sure if artifical sex hormones were created back then then balls wouldnt be a dividing thing just apperance.

I wouldn't be surprised if this tradition had Greek origins

>fits almost exactly into the case of textbook transgender symptoms
>"Nah it's probably made up"

good, its true anyways

It's an accepted fact that OP is and has always been a faggot, yet Veeky Forums is only a teenager

He's right, you know?

"The West" is just a meaningless word used by America for political purposes

Those are not trannies, it's just pederasty.

bump

This is a good point, either it's true so it existed or it had enough of a stigma to be used as slander so it existed.

Don't you have a horsecock futa to masturbate to?

Actually, yes, thank you for reminding me

Femminielli are all mafia shit lmao. I remember there was fights between feminielli and Sudaca trannies because trannies were taking the femmenielli's jobs as prostitutes

It also means that trannies weren't looked at as respectable. It's only very, very, very recently (like within the last 5 or 6 years) where it's become an "acceptable" thing and even then most people only "accept" it because to do otherwise means going against those who hold social power.

Remember 10 years ago or so South Park was able to do an entire episode shitting on the idea of trannies as freaks who will never actually be women.

No he's right, trannies (i.e. autogynephiles) try to insist that shit like that is totally equivalent to a man in a dress wanting to mutilate himself and artifically fuck up his hormone balance because his fucked up brain thinks "FUCK BIOLOGY".

Its only since like 2013 that trannies weren't considered freaks that were the butt of jokes.

The social change we're experiencing right now is incredibly rapid and unprecedented in human history

And this speed is why laws and legislation is being passed in their favour with little to no thought.

There will be a lot of egg on a lot of faces if it turns out dysphoria can be treated with a pill like depression is. Medical scandal of the century

For the subset of people that legitimately have dysphoria.

I think a huge portion of this recent explosion in transsexual population and representation in public is due to the mass-distribution and normalization of fetish pornography.

Weird to say this but... It's nice to see so many level-headed people here on this subject

Myriad reasons I'm sure, starting with acceptance of homosexuality opening the door.
The old Chesterton line always comes to mind
>When a man stops believing in God he doesn’t then believe in nothing, he believes anything

Trannies were never respected. I'm more aiming at the accusation that trannies are a modern phenomenom when we have enough proof they always existed, just like faggots always existed. There's even a theory that trannies are basically just extremely effeminate gays and not some thing of their own.

So it's choice, not biology. Good to know.

Hey i've jerked off to that one, nice job OP, still a faggot though =] Also common in the sense that men used to dress as women in theatre roles and also a an aspect of brothels.

In my community third gender people were bards who were loved by chiefs and kings for singing the praises of their forefathers, the collective folk heroes and masters of the dance and song.

The french in the 17th century mentioned it, they were never very numerous but treated well.

>starting with acceptance of homosexuality opening the door
Actually it started with the acceptance of promiscuity and extramarital sex. Divorce laws and decriminalizing adultery opened up the floodgates.

That sounds pretty reasonable for a fucked up backwater part of the world where people still get beheaded over religion

Literally what is reasonable about this? Are you a tranny?

Not really I just think they should be able to do gay degenerate shit and left alone so long as they are still legally recognised by their biological gender and grow out of it and lead normal lives as men once they put that lifestyle behind them.

>mafia traps
Tell me more pls.

> being this delusional

I literally follow 4 traps from Middle East on instagram, including a Saudi princess.
Also one was attending a meeting with "sisters" in public all wearing burkas.
Pretty weird.

back to your American shithole Ameriprudes

One of life's simple pleasures is matching with trannies on Tinder and asking them if it's gay to like traps

I was reading in a primary source written by a soldier who was part of the Spanish campaign against the Aztecs that in some of the native villages there were male prostitutes who dressed up as women.

Nice dichotomy there kid

>He doesn't know about third genders

Greek and Romans had some, but they were degenerates sometimes anyway

I'm not American you disgusting fuck.

As a Burger whose maternal grandparents are from Ischia, I would also like to know more.

Apparently they were very common, but mostly mtf. I only know of one society where reverse traps were a known thing outside of isolated individuals.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_sworn_virgins

>moral: trannies fuck everything up unless you put them in their place and don't let them think they can ever be real women or real men
I love how the paper is transparently using a story like that to equivocate and pretend that means we should accept trannies as the sex they claim to be.

>pretty common everywhere really, it's christian Europe that is an outlier
Not even all of "Christian Europe", not even all the time.

The Greco-Romans had the cult of Cybele/Magna Mater imported from Anatolia, whose priesthood self-castrated and lived as women. They led fertility rites of bloodletting and also did fortune-telling, and were generally very well liked.

I'd go back to Rousseau. Once you start believing that the self is the center of the universe, that nothing is more important than your individual whims and desires, everything else follows

There's nothing wrong with that.

>Stories and legends must be true
What sort of re-re are you?

Do you got a source for where I can read these passages?

>Romans were degenerates.
Have you never picked up a history book?
The fact that all the bad emperors were slandered as degenerates never got to you?

According to Herodotus the Scythian people were cursed by Aphrodite after they sacked one of her temples to have some of their females born into male bodies. These people were the shamans and seers of the scythians.

There's also the greek minor deity Hermaphroditus, pic related.

I recall reading something about Incas making little boys crossdress in temples.