The cradle of human civilization. Prove me wrong

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burned_house_horizon

>Paleoeuropean clay tablets

?

>muh warped Enlightenment view of Greece and Rome

Mesopotamia had plenty of city-states, Athens having mob rule isn't special

>this retard again

...

>Butthurt faggots that can't admit that Europe was the cradle of human civilization.

Meh, Western Europe built the civilization we have today and they have the right to call themselves the true old Europe or whatever. They might let some polite credit to the Greeks, but yeah, nobody cares about the Balkans and how cool or advanced they were thousands of years ago.

t. Balkanian

>Pre antiquity Ukraine is the cradle of civilization
try again

Dumb nigger.

care to explain

t. gypsie

THe ancient aryan neanderthalensis hyperboreans from Thule traveled between doggerland and the balkans routinely

>we

>doggerland
Has there ever been a bigger meme?

>Europe in 7000-3500BC
Literally fucking nothing

I bet you think that the world is 6000 years old.

Oldest metallurgy so far: Vincan
Oldest writing system so far: Vincan

For some reason excavations at Vincan sites are stopped for now. Hmm I wonder why...

Proto-civilization. There were other advanced settlements like Danube such as Jericho, which were not quite civilization level but were above your average hunter and gatherer.

>muh writing
The Incans didn't have writing does that mean they weren't a civilization? All you can prove is that the Danubians maybe had the oldest script but they hardly wrote shit down.

>mfw there were probably cultures there that came under attack by some unknown invaders
>mfw its all lost to history now

This is the type of shit that fucks with me

What? I'm not saying it didn't exist. Just that it wasn't relevant in any way and Anglos keep memeing it like it's the next Atlantis.

>All you can prove is that the Danubians maybe had the oldest script but they hardly wrote shit down.

If you think that we know everything there is to know about the Danubian culture, you're retarded.

I never said that, but we shouldn't jump to conclusions about something just because one historian said so. I already provided other examples of Danube-like societies that could be civilizations.

Sardinia didn't exist until the renaissance

In the late 3000s BC, I think, they had the most-populated towns in the entire world. However, archaeologists don’t consider them cities because there was no centralized administration, palaces, large temples, or protective walls.

That's not hyperborea.

Civilisations created by based Neolithic farmers. Shame they were destroyed by subhuman indo-eurangatans

There are newer findings that show that civilizations in the Balkans and South Ukraine (odessa region) had writing systems before the Sumerians did

WE
E

Old Europe is kinda like Indus Valley. Cool culture, (proto)civilization but it wasn't really that influential. So even if their script and metallurgy is the oldest it had to be re-discovered later.

At best the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture off the mouth of the Danube was part of the cradle of civilization with the flood plains of the Tigris and Euphrates and nearby areas as the archaelogically confirmed progenitors of wheat grain agriculture and the first hallmarks of civilization, stone buildings, writing and towns with large numbers of full-time artisans.

>have civilization
>horse fuckers appear
>civilization collapses
Every time.

> Thats not Mesopotamia and Egypt

Correct;

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cucuteni–Trypillia_culture

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settlements_of_the_Cucuteni–Trypillia_culture

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_Cucuteni–Trypillia_culture

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinča_symbols

All I can see is a guy in boots stepping in a big pile of shit
I find it hard to believe that the shit came first

pictographs/ideographs are not writing, they don't represent the language or words

What are you complaining about retard? Should he have said "the civilization YOU have today"? Because guess what, he's part of that same civilization.

>The Incans didn't have writing does that mean they weren't a civilization?
If it was true then yes, it would mean exactly that. But Inca DID have writing so it's irrelevant.

So Egypt and China don't have writing? Dumb bastard.

Incas didn’t have writing retard

if slavs swallowed l2 haploshit CT culture then why are slavs such primitive subhumans?

kipu.be/kipu.html

Kipu is not writing

Hmm, who should I believe, the experts who have devoted their lives to its study, or a moron on the internet? Tough call.

move over a bit to the east and gives the turks some love

>prehistory
>turks
Yeah, no.

lel turks

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lepenski_Vir

SO CUTE!

Not sure what this has to do with Turks, tho.

Exactly, nothing.

WE

BTW
Any chances that Chernozem is actually man made?

It wasn't a civilization, it wasn't a civilization, it wasn't a fucking civilization.
Civilization requires writing? Did they have it? No, It requires urbanization, did they have it? No. It requires massive monuments, did they have it? No. It requires social stratification IE: Kings, queens, vassals, priests, a military cast, did they have it? No. It requires ships, did they have it? No. It requires fortifications, did they have it? No. It requires paintings, did they have it? No, It requires statues, did they have it? No. It requires temples, did they have it? No.
It's not a fucking civilization, the first civilization was Sumeria deal with it.

not an argument

>The craddle of western civilization

Fixed it for you

>west civilization started in eastern europe
hahahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

no the gokturks were

Just believe your source. It has language in quotations lmao

Nobody knew it existed until about two centuries ago so it would not be mapped at the time.

>knotted strings
>knots were made in a base-of-10 positional notation that even shows the use of the zero and they could mean anything from the number of babies born in a village to the amount of corn that was destroyed in a hail storm; all depending on the context they were used in.
counting system =/= writing
please try again

for what it's worth some of the Vinca symbols look like they were used for counting or math too

>It requires urbanization, did they have it? No.
wrong
>requires fortifications, did they have it? No.
wrong, pic related

>requires paintings
strange

>requires temples, did they have it? No.
they definitely had temples, you're retarded and don't know the first thing about them

pic related, a temple

see, the reason you're retarded is because you were
D
R
O
P
P
E
D

So a written language isn’t necessary for a civilization? Does that mean the ancient celts were a civilization?

Probably. I mean they lived in these, and had the greatest skills in metallurgy of their day. It's not like they were cavemen.

>habitable fortification wall

Jesus, I sincerely hope these retards weren't the first civilization.

Okay, I'm a bit lost on how Nordicists reconcile this. The Tripolye culture would have predated the Indo-European expansion, and thus predated the spread of so called "aryan" genes to the rest of Europe. The Trypillians would have likely been a mix of European hunter gatherers and near east agriculturalists genetically speaking, so how is it that it's the Nordic/Aryans that are superior when they were the horse niggers that destroyed all this shit and didn't manage to build a culture of comparable scale for over two millennia?

If some sites in Europe are thousands of years older than ones in Middle East, do that means that civilization during those days traveled from west to east, and not east to west?

>likely

We have samples they were ENF

lmao
no wonder they didn't last

No. As mentioned, the Danubian civilization is not the oldest. There are sites in Anatolia and the Levant that are older. Agriculture was still first honed in the Middle East and then spread to Europe. Most European scripts are also derived from the Middle East.

middle east -> eastern europe -> southern euope -> western europe -> northern europe

LMAO

Wherever Corsica, the Balearic Islands and Cyprus are on that map.

Jericho for one. There's also Çatalhöyük and Çayönü. Anatolia and the Middle East have the oldest sites at the advent of agriculture, but they've also got the most advanced pre-agricultural sites as well, like Göbekli Tepe.

Soooooo...ENF confirmed for true master race then?

The cradle of human Civilization is the Mediterranean and Persian Gulf

Apparently Lepenski Vir is 9500 BC, that puts it in the same era as Gobekli Tepe.

REEEEEEEEE BUT MUH NORDS!!!11

Lepenski Vir didn't have stone structures in 9500 BC though, right? I thought they were originally more like tents and then the more sophisticated structures came at a later period.

>invents tin-alloy bronze
>The earliest tin-alloy bronze dates to 4500 BCE in a Vinča culture site in Pločnik (Serbia).[9]

>would have predated the Indo-European expansion
not if you buy the Anatolian hypothesis, but that would make you dumb.

they merged with Yamna after several centuries of adjacent coexistence and trade because of the effects sudden onset climate change had on their way of life.

cringe

DA MEDS WHO ORIGINATED FROM THE MIDDLE EAST WUZ BLUE EYES MAYNE, DEY HAD BLONDE HAIR N SHEEIIIT DAWG, I AINT KIDDIN U. MOTHAFUKA EJEEPSHUNS AND PHOENICIANS WUZ GERMANIC N SHEEEEEEEEEEEEIIIIT

cringe

From what I can tell that seems to be one of the hypotheses on why they collapsed, but that still doesn't explain how they had so much more sophisticated societies in the first place if they were inferior. The Cucuteni–Trypillia and the cultures that predated them like the Vinča all rose and flourished well before the Yamna were even a thing. As well it still took the descendants of the Yamna over 2000 years to build back up to a comparative level of civilization, while their contemporaries in the Middle East and Egypt had already been making leaps past that level for centuries.

That is correct. But only 5% of the site is excavated.
I just hate when nobody wants to research these sites anymore.

Gobekli Tepe's in that same boat too, I believe. Is it a matter of technology and techniques not being good enough that people still don't want to risk damaging anything?

I dont think its about techniques and safety of artefacts.
People invest more in excavating Roman sites than this much older ones. Very few people are interested in them.

sad

>they were inferior
nobody, fucking nobody is claiming this but you about the proto-Indo-Europeans
you've swallowed straw, man

>proto-Indo-Europeans
That word makes no sense.

dipshit

>nobody, fucking nobody is claiming this
>implying we don't get nordic nonsense EXACTLY like this several times a month on this board
desuarchive.org/his/thread/3914387/#3915502
shit like this ceased to be a strawman here a long time ago.

>they were BLACK
sad, really really sad