Netherlander Thread

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youtube.com/watch?v=qn1PAU0awK8
Hier gaan we weer jongens!

his tongue and finger are still in a museum

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Damn that is nice. Shame you changed the flag, any info, documentaries or just images of the gilded age of the Dutch Republic? Ill bump with some Dutch historical photos

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>histories of the Netherlands
Can I get a quick rundown?

The Prinsenvlag was really only the flag of the Stadholders not of the Republic itself. Only the NSB wanted that flag so it's sullied now.

Gud boys who dindu Nofin

>Bunch of Germans living in a swampy river delta
>Romans come
>Franks come
>Priests come
>Start deswampifying the land to create more
>Get inherrited by some Germans (Bavaria)
>Get inherrited by some Burgundians
>Burgundians unite the Netherlands
>Burgundians die out and Habsburgs take over
>Habsburgs throw a hissy fit over religion Netherlands try to secceed.
>Get rich from shipping
>Fight the Habsburgs for 80 years
>Steal a bunch of their silver
>Make colonies everywhere especially in SEA
>Get rich
>Anglo and Frenchie get Jealous
>FIght them a whole bunch of times
>Economy stagnates
>Conflicts between stadholders and republicans
>French take over in 1795
>We are now batavian republic
>Napoopan makes his brother king
>We kick Napoopans butt in 1815 (with some help)
>Vienna gives us Belgium
>Belgium doesnt like it and secceeds after 1831
>Bunch of bullshit
>Neutral in ww1
>Try to be neutral in ww2
>after that we tame the south sea
>Bretty good country

There's also the fact that De Witt had put aside the positionof Stadtholder after William II died. William II had managed a succesful coup and gathered all power in the office of Stadtholder, before dying shortly aftwr and leaving behind only his young child William III.
De Witt tried to keep William III away from the office of stadtholder as it wasn't technically hereditary but elective, so he just decided to never do the vote. This period in Dutch history is called the first Stadtholderless period. During the disaster year however support for William grew immensely as the Stadtholders had a reputation of getting the Dutch out of tough binds and leading the army to victory during the 80' years war. There's speculation that William organised the mob to kill De Witt so he could take back the power.
William did indeed take back the power and changed the Dutch army back into a force to be reckoned with. e managed o turn the war around after he became king of the England when the English parlaiment requested he invaded the country during the glorious revolution. Unfortunately he died without a heir, bringing forth the second Stadtholderless period and reigning in a new era of Anglo-Dutch hostility, ending the Dutch Golden Age for good as the country faded from relevance on the world stage.

Thanks.

Reminder that all spices are rightfull Dutch property and therefore all actions taken in Indonesia were justified.

Well thats a damn shame

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Thanks brah

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Moedernegotie
Show no emotion
We love tears
It is about grain for us
It is about grain for us
for our slice of bread

youtube.com/watch?v=CdPdz2h4pH0

Moedernegotie
Show no emotion
We are capitalists
We do not spill money
we make ourselves a nice slice of bread

We are Pieter Cornelis and friends
we prefer playing with our flutes
and we focus ourselves on the east sea area
because of that this song

Moedernegotie
Show no emotion
The commercial agriculture makes weed for our rope (for boats)
Makes us a slice of bread

Moedernegotie
Show no emotion
Cannon foundries and the trade in spices
make thanks to us their bread
because we are Pieter Cornelis and friends
and we sail our ships with big bellies
we are the motor of the Dutch economy
No other company
We make on the stapelmarkt in Amsterdam our bread

Moedernegotie
we show no devotion
It is about the cents
we are the regents
we stay pragmatic tolerant

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cool, thanks!
>ending the Dutch Golden Age for good as the country faded from relevance on the world stage.
This really makes me sad. I really have more respect for Nederlander than for most of my fellow Germans.

Another question, what's the main balance between Raadspensionaris and Stadtholder, for me both sound like quite "lowly"/not very grandious titles and maybe how they play together in the political system

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De name Stadtholder (Dutch Stadhouder, literally translated from Stead Holder) pretty much means Steward. It's a title that finds it roots in the Burgundian and Spanish domination of the area as both the Duke of Burgundy and King of Spain held the titles of all the Dutch counties and duchies themselves. However would appoint (usually local) nobility to rule the Dutch counties in their stead.
During the prelude to the Dutch Rebellion there were three mayor Stadtholders, Philips of Montmorency (Count of Hoorne and Stadtholder of Gelre & Zutphen), Lamoraal of Gavere (Count of Egmond and Stadtholder of Flanders and Artois.) and finally William of Orange, Stadtholder of pretty much everything else and Prince of Orange and Nassau. William was the exception out of the three as he wasn't local nobility but gained his position due to his close relationship with Charles V and great riches.

When the Dutch revolt began and the Duke of Alba began his reign of terror in the Netherlands the Counts of Egmond and Hoorne were beheaded and William fled back to his home in Dillenburg, forfeiting his position. However as the Dutch rebellion began to gain traction and the city of Den Briel was captured the Dutch rebels named William their stadtholder once again as an act of disobedience against Alba and king Phillip II. From that point on the position of Stadtholder became one of the two most powerful positions in the soon to be formed Republic.
The Stadtholder was a position that had very little official political power and it's main function was the head of the Dutch army. Because the position of Stadtholder (at least of Holland and pretty much every province except Frisia, as every province elected it's own stadtholder) was basically always held by the family of Orange-Nassau however it became powerful as the family always held a lot of influence in the country and still had their great riches.
(Cont.)

This is gonna be longer than expected, so bear with me.
The main dynamic and confrontation between the Stadtholder and Raadspensionaris came from the second period of the 80' years war, after William's assassination at the hands of Balthasar Gérard. After William's death attempts were made to do away with the concepts of Stadtholder and they tried to invite English and French noblemen (Including Elizabeth I herself) to take control over the area, but they either refused or were quickly kicked out again when they tried to gain too much power over local nobility and the richer families.
Instead the Netherlands was announced a Republic and the title of Stadtholder went to William's son, Maurice. Maurice was already an accomplished commander and would soon reform the entire Dutch army and his reforms would quickly be adopted all over Europe and serve as inspiration to Gustav Adolf of Sweden.

Not long after a new Raadspensionaris (Literally State pensionary, though at this time it was still called Land's Advocate) was also elected, Johan van Oldenbarnevelt, who was supported by Maurice. Oldenbarnevelt and Maurice made a deal to work together during the 80' years war and together reformed the entire country. Oldenbarnevelt taking care of trade and state business while Maurice took care of the war and handling foreign affairs mostly together.
Their cooperation proved very succesful and coincided with the disasterous Spanish invasion attempt on England allowing them to quickly turn the war.

However the honeymoon never lasts forever and from 1609 all problems supressed by the war against Spain began to surface. In 1609 a 12 years truce was signed between Spain and the Republic, and in this time of peace the different interests between the Raadspensionaris and Stadtholder showed.
Van Oldenbarnevelt wanted to continue the peace, after all peace was much better for trade and the Raadspensionaris could gain much more profit and power from trade than from war
(cont.)

You see, the real power in the Dutch Republic was in the States General, essentially the parlaiment of the Republic. The Raadspensionaris was the head of the states general and was ususally a Regent, a powerful and rich patrician family, not always noble but very rich nontheless. They ruled each city and sent a few representatives to the provincial states (Provinciale Staten), which then send representatives to the States General. They mostly made their money from trade and other businesses and thus they preferred peace, it's much better for business.

Standing against them was the Stadtholder whose main support lies in the nobility as they provided for most of the army. The position of Stadtholder was much more powerful and prestigious when there was an actual war to fight. There was very little Maurice could do in this time of peace, as his position was technically that of a civil servant of the States General. This obviously caused tension between Maurice and Oldenbarnevelt as the two started to look for ways to eliminate the other's influence and gain more power for their faction.

Fearing Maurice might plot a coup Oldenbarnevelt made a risky play. In 1617 he passed a law in Holland, where Maurice had no say, which allowed the province to raise an militia loyal to the province, not the states general or Maurice. This undermined Maurice's authority immensely, but Maurice played it well. Maurice proclaimed this an official rebellion, raised his army, gained support of the States General and marched into Holland unopposed. He had Oldenbarnevelt and his arrested and executed in 1619 and in an ironic twist of fates Oldenbarnevelts attempt to undermine Maurice allowed him to gain more power and continue the war two years later.
This reigned in a long period of tension between the Raadspensionaris and the Stadtholder, both would always try to undermine the other and seek opposite means to power.

I should also probably mention that during the late stages of the Republic it was the Stadtholder that eventually came out on top, tough only briefly. In 1747 the second Stadtholderless period ended as a French army invaded Flanders it threathened the Republic who had been using the Spanish Netherlands as a buffer zone between themselves and the powerhungry French. They quickly turned to the Frisian branch of the family of Orange-Nassau and elected William IV as the first stadtholder of all provinces. William made the position hereditary as due to his own involvement as a director-general of the VOC he managed to ally himself with the rich regent families of Holland and gained much power for the Stadtholder.

This came to a fall when his son, William V, the first non-elected Stadtholder, was overthrown by the French (supported by Dutch revolutionaries who were fled in exile by Prussian intervention a few years prior) and replaced with the Batavian Republic and later king Louis Napoleon.
After Napoleon's defeat William V's son was crowned king William I and became an absolute monarch, though his own son gave up his power to the parlaiment during 1848, fearing a new revolution.

What can Veeky Forums tell me about the Batavi and the Frisii and the other tribes that inhabited the Netherlands during and before the Roman times?

Wow, that's really interesting, thanks for taking the time to explain it.
If you don't mind, I have another question. All of the land reclamation, how was it financed/undertaken? Was it more of a centralized process, payed and organized by the state treasury or was it more of a decentralized process either led by the local nobility in order to gain more land or more of a community undertaking akin to the settling of the east by German farmers (Ostsiedlung)?

The Batavi and Frisii lived in what the Romans called the 'Rhine Islands' together with other minor tribes like the Canenefatii. The Batavii were the newest inhabitants of the region having migrated from upstream they had strong cavalry and the other "Dutch" tribes called them the "Eastern Death". All the tribes in this region got Foederati status during the early Julo-Claudian era thus only having to supply troops (The Frisii only had to supply ox-hides and no troops) to the Roman legions). The Batavians became very elite, serving in the imperial bodygaurd. During the collapse of the dynasty the Batavii, Frisii and Canenefatii rebelled and butchered a couple of legions when they were eventually defeated they sort of lost a lot of privileges. The Batavii were probably among the tribes that would confederate into the Franks. The Frisii would build a comfy maritime trade empire around the North sea during the fall of Rome untill being incorporated into the Frankish empire. The Frisians did retain special rights under the Franks having their autonomy secured per imperial decree. The troops that freed Rome from Lombards were Frisians so that is probably why Charlemagne rewarded them.

Damn I should have reread that before posting, sorry Veeky Forums

I'll try my best, but I'm not the most knowledgable on the area.

Land reclaimation in the Netherlands is as old as it's civilizations, so obviously as times change so does the process. The original building of dykes has been going on since the iron age, for example, at which point it was done by local tribes to protect their local territories and farmlands.
As you can see on the map most of the early reclaimation happened in Holland and Zeeland, during this time held by the Count of Holland. In the late 12th century a massive flood (The first All Saint's flood) wipes out a massive amount of farmland in the area, which was disasterous. Wanting to prevent another disaster like this count William II of Holland appoints the Hoogheemcouncil of the Rhineland (Hoogheemraadschap van Rijnland in Dutch). This was the first Dutch water authority (There's currently have 23). They were funded by William and charged with protecting the lands against the sea and eventually expanding the lands. I can only assume the Frisians adopted a similar system. I believe that after the Burgundians and Habsburgs gained control of the Netherlands the responsibility of finances would have gone to the Stadtholder.
After the Dutch Rebellion the finances for these water authorities changed hands from the counts & Stadtholder to the local parlaiments, the Provincial States. The provincial states

The real change came after the fall of the Republic. In 1798 the Rijkswaterstaat was founded by the Batavian Republic (Then known as the Bureau of the Waterstate). This was a central authority over all the smaller waterstates that followed the model of William II. The Rijkswaterstate was a part of the ministery of infrastructure and it's main goal is the execution of public works and water management, including reclaiming and more importantly, flood prevention. It exists to this date and their members are elected through local elections (though their turnout ratings are abyssal).
(1/2)

And in the middle ages it was mostly the church who paid for land reclamation. Since they owned most of the land.

Anybody here knowledgable on the Dutch WIC? I know everything about English RAC and from what i've read so far it had pretty similar history

>founded on government support as a way to control Atlantic trade
>had its golden age of huge investments when slave trading became a big thing
>took on unrealistic slave supply quotas
>unable to supply
>interlopers become a thing
>18th century is filled with petition and legislative opposition until its dissolved

Land reclaimation is expensive however, and many politicians didn't find it profitable or reasonable to continue the process, as they believed it would cost much more than it would make. There had always been ideas concerning poldering the Southern Sea though, but they were always either postponed or rejected.
That finally changed in 1919 when there was another massive flood as the dykes broke through and many cities and towns surrounding the Southern sea were flooded, resulting in many deaths and destructions of properties.
To prevent such a disaster from ever happening again the Southern Sea Works were build, this time on the order of the National Parlaiment, though the Rijkswaterstaat was still responsible with it's building. The Southern Sea works includes the famous Afsluitdijk (The big Northern Dyke between Holland and Frisia in the previous map) which is too complicated for me to explain, but I do recommend you look it up. It also included the largest land reclaimation project in Dutch history: The reclaimation of the all new province of Flevoland. This particular province was reclaimed because of it's rich clay ground.

>after that we tame the south sea
What?

It's a pretty accurate summary. But while it's original purpose was trade that wasn't it's main revenue. It was really just a state-sponsored privateer's organization, especially during the 80' years war in which it was practically an extension of the Dutch navy. It's greatest profit ever was the capture of the Spanish silverfleet which brought enormous amounts of wealth to the Netherlands.
The problem was that the WIC could never really compare to the VOC and it's 'Golden Era' ended during the slave trade with the end of the 80 years war at the peace of Munster. Only a few decades after the peace of Munster the company was dissolved due to incredible debts, only to be re-established a few years later. By the time it was dissolved again in 1792 the company hadn't actually traded anything in decades and was really more of a governing instance.

Have some 17th century beats to go along with the thread.
youtube.com/watch?v=Q_2auYMS-VM

Also obligatory for a Netherlands thread:
youtube.com/watch?v=5FdEzwgOmtY
youtube.com/watch?v=qn1PAU0awK8

The South Sea (Zuiderzee) was also the sea in the middle of the Netherlands. It is currently a lake however as it's been completely encased.

2 questions: what happened in NL from 1700 until roughly 1780 and why did the Germans bomb Rotterdam and not any other city?

>what happened in NL from 1700 until roughly 1780
Economic downturn mostly

You just admitted that the Dutch outrank God.

Whats with all the purple farms on the new land and why isn't it on the old land?

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>"Ya'll wouldn't mind if I take one of your colonies? I need it to restore the Ming Dynasty."

Tulips

Tell me more about WWII era Dutch warships. Recently there is an international attempt to salvage some sunken wreckage in Sunda strait.

he didn't admit that, he acknowledged it.

Purple = clay

>Franks came
The Dutch are Franks though, unless by “Germans” you meant Frisii/Frisians

source.

Underfunded navy, still not as bad as other parts of the armed forces in this period.

The navy had quite sophisticated ships and tech. The 40mm aa mounts in use by the USN were a Dutch invention. The 'snorkel' on u-boats was also a Dutch invention.

The heaviest caliber in use was only 150mm, even on the light cruisers. The thing is that they slapped those guns on ANYTHING. Two of the most famous ships are the Flores and Sumba, highly successful sloops in the European theater. Another successful branch was the submarine service.

Despite all this they were no match for the IJN, who wiped the floor with them during the invasion of the NEI.

He who controls the spice, controls the UNIVBERSE.

What is going on here you filthy heretics

Bullfuckers pls leave

Reminder that the Dutch have the most claim to Charlemagne

Fuck off with this nationalist nazi flag. Red, white and blue are the only colors that should be on the flag.

>Fuck off with this nationalist nazi flag.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Franconian_languages

Yes, its the flag neo nazis use.

Dietsland wanneer?

>the historical flag of the Netherlands that has been in use since the days of William of Orange is a Neo-Nazi symbol.

That literally requires more mental gymnastics than the calling the Confederate battle flag a Neo-Nazi symbol.

Neo-Nazis also breathe air, maybe you should stop doing that otherwise you're a Nazi.

nikker wat zit je te roken?

could it have worked?

tandpasta

Yes and if it lasted it would have been incredible. With an industrious south of industrial entrepreneurs filled with coal and iron and a mercantile north with access to huge trading networks and colonial resources it would have been an incredible wealthu state the likes of which would have never been seen before. It was a perfect marriage.

Dan had je maar alle walen moeten deporteren.

Walen zijn oké; ze doen niet veel anders dan niets doen...

What’s the general Dutch view on the Burgundian period, and how do you fellas feel things would have gone down if Charles was less fond of halberds?

my 4 last orders from netherlands haven't arrived
i would probably be dead if i lived there

that's a newspaper in Afrikaans, not dutch

oh, fuck

Franks lived below the 'rivers' (rhine, meuse). Frisians lived above it.

Our Nazi (NSB) party used it from 1939 till 1945.

another one.

>one party of retarded fringe lunatics used it for six years
>the flag's 400 year history prior to that deserves to be erased/slandered because of this one instance of retarded Germanboos hijacking it for their own use

by the same logic we should stop using the Lion in our Heraldry because SS-Langemark made use of the Lion as well

>>one party of retarded fringe lunatics used it for six years

The party that facilitated nazi german rule in the Netherlands. The party responsible for a couple of hundred executions.

>N- Nazi's didn't use the flag
>Those guys are just fringe lunatics not real nazis!

Killing Marxists is a good thing

>>N- Nazi's didn't use the flag
>>Those guys are just fringe lunatics not real nazis!
>N- Nazi's are okay

>The nazis/NSB only killed Marxists.

The fact they used doesnt mean it’s a neo nazi flag. It’s a historical dutch flag and no amount of neo nazi appropriation is going to change that

Koxinga died like bitch from emotional stress, the Ming dynasty got massacred and Formosa is rightful Dutch clay.

Praise Willem de Zwijger.

And partisans. You shouldve been good boys like my great grandfather. He got rich as fuck after the second world war.

>nazis use a thing
>it is now a nazi thing

I heard a nazi used your mom 9 months before you where born
you filthy nazi end product

Ever heard of the swastika?

I always misread that as neanderthals

Awesome posts