So I'm not sure how to put the question. Ofcourse the 56ers had no nobility in the European sense but they had extremely rich families that lived a lifestyle quite similarly to that of the European nobility. European nobility, while fancying the 'exotic' and wild of the Americans however were rather reclusive towards commoners.
So my question it were the old money families of America considered on equal or similar footing to the European noble class or did they look down on them? How much and what were the interactions of the upper classes across the atlantic like anyhow?
There are more facettes to the question but I'm having difficulties expressing the nuances correctly so for now I'll leave it at that.
Didn't mean to put 56ers there. Old reflex. I'm genuinely sorry. This thread isn't meant for insults or such thing. America. Truely sorry.
Xavier Diaz
There's a term for them: WASP, stands for White Anglo-Saxon Protestant. There is a subtle American nobility comprised of rich English landowners from the colonial era that have since held positions of power in American politics and financing. While their ancestry may be English it wasn't generally English nobility as the nobility were quite content with staying in England. They were upper-middle class gentlemen who settled in the colonies. Many of the founding fathers (probably all actually) were of English descent. As to whether they are looked down upon the answer is mostly yes, but that's mainly to do with their lack of aristocratic ancestry. It's likely though that some old money American families are probably viewed quite favourably by European nobles due to their oppulent wealth.
Ethan Brown
Rich Americans were seen as peasants who “cheated”, but their money & influence was damn enticing. And they had a rugged edge to them that made Europeans feel excited without also feeling like you’re slumming it. In later years slavery left a bad taste in the mouths of Euros.
I guess sorta like how the Byzantines viewed the Franks.
American wealthy people viewed European nobles as the APEX of class and sophistication. They were always trying to ape European behaviors & trends. But those Americans who actually DID visit Europe were quite disillusioned by how backwards, primitive, and downright MEDIEVAL European nobles often behaved.
John Ramirez
Just Dixieshits LARPing as 'sophisticated Anglo Yuros'
David Cox
Who is more powerful, WASP's or jews?
Leo Mitchell
What is "56" a reference to, anyway?
Adam Wood
Dixies were indeed idiot LARPers but there was a genuine old timey ruling class located in New England, most notable group being the Boston brahmins. And I wouldn't really call it nobility or aristocracy, as nobility is something formal. They were more like an oligarchy.
Justin Baker
I think it's from some document claiming that America is only 56% white. I don't know what document it is and where they would've gotten the number though, given that it contradicts the official census data.
Logan Martinez
I think it's because non-Hispanic whites are 62% of the population and by substracting all the Jews and Middle Easterners and other non-whites who get counted as "white", you'll get 56%. But not sure.
Blake Phillips
>56% white Oh, right, the mutt meme, completely went over my head. I was trying to figure out what happened in 1856 or somthing.
Adam Brown
>Unitarian merchants were more noble than chivalrous agrarian planters OK kid...
William Bell
I think it was trying to factor in illegal immigrants or something, it might have been from PEW but I can't remember
Jayden Williams
Planters were basically what kulaks were in Russia. Just peasants who ran into some money.
Hudson Hill
No, we feel sorry for you that you still pay attention to the stale rubbish here.
>But those Americans who actually DID visit Europe were quite disillusioned by how backwards, primitive, and downright MEDIEVAL European nobles often behaved. This. The Innocents Abroad by Mark Twain is a great instance of that
Easton Jackson
>chivalrous >slavemasters Pick one, and only one. Then kys you dixiecuck.
Gavin Williams
Are you implying slaves couldn't be treated better than poor natives of any group at any point in time?
Jeremiah Harris
>whataboutism One evil does not negate another. Southern slaveowners were subhuman.
Benjamin James
>despite his age, he proudly participated in a "little talked about" activity called "bedding down with a negro wench" for which Lord Fairfax would pay a fee to the person who supplied the "wench"
was he /ourguy/?
Elijah Walker
>Southern slaveowners were subhuman All I can do is lol at your hate. None of the world needs people like you around.
Dylan Clark
Sherman should have hung every living person he came across.
Julian Watson
The elite the Anglo countries became transnational after WWII; There are many politicians in all Anglo countries that hold dual citizenship.
Charles Miller
And a vast majority of planters weren't noblemen, most were people like Andrew Jackson, poorfags who became rich. And some of the Southern ones, especially in Virginia and South Carolina started literally LARPing as aristocrats.
Isaiah Bennett
Especially all the niggers he hated
Logan Mitchell
Yes let the hate flow through you. See I love everyone and who I love the most is those that are the most hated and persecuted.
Jason Garcia
I love you too user. [spoiler]Unless you're a Southerner, in which case eat shit and die.[/spoiler]
Blake Gomez
One of the wealthiest slave owners in South Carolina was literally a freed nigger called William Ellison. Nobility my ass.
Luis Carter
Sorry you feel that way maybe one day you will find it in your heart to forgive. We all share the same table.
Jose Foster
>started literally LARPing as aristocrats Elaborate.
Christopher Smith
I never got where it came from either, considering that every census piece I've looked up lists the US white population at 71%. Yes that includes Hispanic whites but Hispanic is a fucking made up ethnic group that has no bearing on race.
Noah Davis
American nobility are jews >dont pay taxes >nepotistic control over the countries politics >make up the upper class Hell they are even inbred too
Brandon Hill
I mean I guess the Kennedys
Logan Jenkins
Many of the landed gentry and upper-middle class became very rich land owners in the American colonies. Eventually rising to become the "nobility" you describe.
The descendants of these same families remain in positions of power and political influence.
>We all share the same table. Lol. Now I know you were b8ing the other user. Any one who actually lives in the south knows this shit is still segregated like a motherfucker. There are a lot of things I love about being a NC hillbilly but damn it if Sherman shouldn't have come around for another pass. That and all the carpet baggers twisting the knife after Lincoln died left the south as prime soil to plant this 'landed gentry; it was a simpler time' nostalgia circlejerk bullshit.
Samuel Cox
That's old census data man. Last one was in 2010, the demographics have noticeably shifted in the past 8 years. I would not be at all surprised to find out that only 56% of Americans in 2018 are white.
Liam Hernandez
user it took like 40 years to go from 90% to 71%. I find it hard to believe that it would downshift that fast when immigration is slower than it used to be.
Brandon Adams
They would pretend to be aristocrats, put on fake accents, the whole deal.
Parker Bennett
No, they were largely drawn from the English petty gentry and provincial bourgeoisie. They were absolutely seen as something more than peasants. Look at the histories of families like the Washingtons, Lees, Harrisons, etc. You certainly could rise from the ranks to become a planter, but it wasn't where most of the real players came from.
Christian Nelson
There was a sense of nobility and "Old Money" among the American upper class until at least WW1. The Great War upheaval shook up social relations both sides of the Atlantic.
But until then, the division between "Old Money" and "New Money" was a real thing, even in the USA, the newly rich were looked down upon by traditional families. The old families upheld traditions and conservative modes of behaviour that were very different, women were expected to marry into other reknowned families, for instance. Marrying a "commoner" was looked down upon, even if he was rich. He needed a proper surname.
Not all of these expectations were bad however. Traditional families also expected their members to behave with honor to uphold their surnames.
One good example of this was Benjamin Guggenheim, which died on the Titanic after refusing the opportunity to climb on a lifeboat, which would have been seen as cowardly and dishonorable for a man of his class and family.
>Realizing that the situation was much more serious than he had implied, as well as realizing he was not going to be rescued, he then returned to his cabin with Giglio and the two men changed into evening wear. Titanic survivor Rose Amelie Icard wrote in a letter, "The billionaire Benjamin Guggenheim after having helped the rescue of women and children got dressed, a rose at his buttonhole, to die." The two were seen heading into the Grand Staircase, closing the door behind them. He was heard to remark, "We've dressed up in our best and are prepared to go down like gentlemen."
>e also gave Etches, who survived the sinking, a message, which Etches wrote down: "If anything should happen to me, tell my wife in New York that I've done my best in doing my duty."
>"Guggenheim and Giglio were last seen seated in deck chairs in the foyer of the Grand Staircase sipping brandy and smoking cigars, ready to accept their fate without fear or hesitation
Joshua Brooks
I was thinking "7 years war? But that's a bit weird of a dividing line and it started earlier in North America..."
