When did basic training/boot camp/recruit training become intense?

>Why did this happen?
Because people must be broken for them to mindlessly accept orders, like dying for someone else's ideology. The purpose is to remove the human from a human.

I have no problem with strict military training, but this is just silly. How can anybody look at this man and not start to giggle.

Esprit de corps, faggets. The collective ideals of the Republic have to be internalized so that the body becomes the very embodiment of Kantian categorical imperative ethics. At least, that's the idea of military drills here. Otherwise, you'll get a bunch of trigger-happy loons roaming around with their rifles (those still exist though, so maybe it wasn't enough).

it was a wild ride though, watching the death and rebirth of myself in such a brutal and condensed fashion. Not that it wasn't miserable or that it didnt leave some scarring.

He'd bury you instantly if you giggled at him. Drill sergeants are the meanest motherfuckers in the army.

he can inflict punishments on you arbitrarily and with complete impunity while it would be a serious crime to inflict a punishment on him

It's actually much softer than it used to be.

When my dad did it the Drills would beat the fuck out of people all the time.
Just walking up and slapping you and shit.

The worst that happened to me was being put at parade rest for 6 hours in heat-cat 5 until we had three people start seizing.
We all wanted to report it or something but we were informed that "use of the sun as corrective training" was allowed.
Pretty sure it's not but there's nothing that can be done about it now.

youtube.com/watch?v=a8k3b-QNbhs

This makes the situation just more comical. People normally make those faces when they are angy and out of controll. I mean, nothing against shouting and giving away push-ups, but you shouldn't look like a grumpy 2-year old while doing that.

>People normally make those faces when they are angy and out of controll.
That's the point though, he's not.
It's a profession.
I know a ton of people who've been Drill Sergeants, it's a professional demeanor built to produce a certain result that can be turned off with the flick of a switch.
After this photo the guy probably immediately went back to being cool, calm, and collected; then he probably laughed about the entire thing with his buddies when out of sight.

Despite the image being portrayed, there's very little actual emotion invested other than pride.
I trained college kids at a Senior Military College for four years.
You can yell and punish all you want, but you aren't actually angry or upset at them.
It's all a ruse to force them to develop esprit de corps, show them how they react under outside pressure, and teach them to build a tolerance to negative emotion.

The entire thing is basically an artificial pressure machine meant to show people their breaking points in a generally safe environment so they don't go in as pussies and have an easily avoidable breakdown in a time/place it actually matters.

Nah, that's an illusion, the only thing that's changed are the circumstances.

People nowadays are much better read and educated, and as a result are much better behaved and don't need orders repeatedly beaten into their thick skulls before they get it. They're less likely to lash out or need an attitude readjustment, and they get it that an integral part of being a soldier means following your officer's orders even if he orders you to do something which might get you killed. What their training emphasizes more of these days are physical conditioning, because you no longer need to scream at recruits to get them to follow orders, but you do need to beat their soft, flabby civilian bodies into military shape.

Also, hazing recruits has never been permitted, it was and still is done on the DL. Inflicting cruelty on your soldiers doesn't make them better soldiers, it just teaches them to use cruelty as a tool to gain what they want. While that does make them better at terrorizing civilians, in the field they'll lose to soldiers who are more professional, which means they spent more time mastering the basics of soldiering: PT, Marksmanship, Land Nav, Squad STX.

Pic related, Even back in the day it wasn't acceptable to be cruel to recruits, and there was a fairly decent sized scandal at West Point back then when a cadet was hazed to death by his officers.

To be fair, what counts as "hazing" and 'bullying" has changed quite a bit.

Back in the day it could mean daily beatings with axe handles.
Now you can get reported for hazing if you break someone's hangers.

>Now you can get reported for hazing if you break someone's hangers.
I have my reservations about there being some long lost golden age when soldiers were soldiers and there wasn't the occasional shitbag who did everything he could to weasel out of his responsibilities.

You're going to end up btfo worse than the Japs.

>Now they cant even call you fagoot.

Thats what they want you to think, I remember specifically how our DIs would dare us to call hazing on them whenever they'd do or say some really over the top shit. I remember we'd push our racks to one side of the squad bay and we'd call it the "Mini-Grinder", well we had something called "The Meat Grinder" and it was pretty much all the racks haphazardly thrown to the edges of the of the squadbay with all our personal shit and uniforms tossed all over the place and recruits running around and screaming to the top of their lungs while stopping to do exercises with our rifles, it'd get so fucking stuffy in there the windows would for up and you could swear you could see condensation on the ceiling and in the air.

All while the Senior Drill Instructor was playing this

youtube.com/watch?v=YkADj0TPrJA

Without fail, every generation of servicemembers shits on the ones that follow. Things were always tougher "back in my day". It's mostly horseshit.

Its like that old joke goes

The first recruit to sign up at the Tun Tavern walked up the the table and was told if he signed up he would get a free shot of whiskey.

The Second recruit walks up to the table and gets 2 free shots for his enlistment bonus.

When the Second recruit tells the First recruit what his bonus was the First recruit tells him...

"It wasn't that way in the old corps"

>When did basic training/boot camp/recruit training become intense?

>meanwhile I spent the whole time folding towels and wondering if anybody is saw my weener in the showers.

The harder it is to join, the more loyal the member. It began when mankind began.

basic training has become a lot easier in the united states if anything

>It seems as though most developed nations no longer recruit this way

That's because the rest of the developed world has relied on the US for military protection for about 70 years.

It's really sad, the once proud military cultures of western Europe have been completely neutered and most NATO members don't even pay the pathetic 2% of gdp on their militaries like they're supposed to.

Eastern Europe and Israel are the last bastions of militaristic developed nations outside America.

>inb4
>Eastern Europe
>Developed

Compared to most of the world they are.

It's hard to say about the training but discipline (HARD discipline) is a very old concept. Decimation is well known example.
US is not the only country to use viril training methods, Russians are way more hardcore, some French units too. Overall it tends to soften though.

It's comical when its happening to you, too, but its more like being in prison than anything else.

>drill sergeant
>professional demeaner
You're waaaaaay out of touch.

The purpose of military training is to depersonalize the trainee, to break them down to component parts and rebuild them from the ground up, so that they are capable of working properly in a true hierarchy without politics.
It's an assembly line to make complex human beings into simple killing machines within a given context, the context of military operation.
This was a thing that became formalized, historically, in Sparta and then more popularly in Rome, the Professional Army.

There's some truth here. The US is one of the few western militaries that will unabashedly promotes killer instinct and a desire to murder your foe as efficiently and mercilessly as possible, in an emotional sort of way. Sure professionalism is important and sure every military is trying to out murder the enemy, but the way it's promoted, particularly to the marines, is still very old-fashioned and medieval in character.

What makes the grass grow? Blood makes the grass grow.

Good one.

It's a playground, more or less. When I went through, the drill sergeants did everything they could to openly abuse their power in front of you, lecturing you on 'honesty' and 'integrity' and then breaking his oaths in front of you for shits and giggles. Remarkable moments included staying up all night long to clean the barracks at the DS behest while he snuck off from his station to get some underage poon, taking care of a DS's dogs that they left in the barracks while they went to do whatever, and our captain having to look up the regulations on exactly how much sleep you are required to give a trainee per night and deciding that four consecutive hours does not mean four hours at once. I also remember our 'graduation' ceremony where we were going to become 'real soldiers' and move to IT, there was some kid there who had heard about this event from his brother and was excited for it, and watching them tear him down was a sight. Patriots to cynics in 4 months or less.

Basic training is Charmin ultra soft now they can't even hit you anymore just a much of yelling and there are limits on the amount of physical activity they can force you to do.

T Angry milfag

Only if you have females in your cycle.

My military buddies say they just play videogames most of the time

It's hilarious how soldiers actually get bitchy and jealous because their juniors aren't getting abused like they were. It's pathetic.

Most of these muhreens and “soldiers” are just white trash/spics who can’t even do basic algebra. They only know “m-me have gun I tough I shoot you”

Hazing is a huge part of Korean culture. There is a strict hierarchy and if you are not a ranking member, you aren't shit. Even the people getting hazed haze each other. Leads to bro tier friendships through mutual hardship but can make you want to kill yourself, especially if you're an autist like me.

>It seems as though most developed nations no longer train their recruits in this way

No fucking way. Russia, China, the U.K., France, all of them do it.

Is this an accurate depiction of US army boot camp?

Is this an accurate depiction of US army boot camp?

youtu.be/-LksYTLJpVE

Way more gay in my experience

It's at least as old as the Roman Republic, which instilled discipline in troops mostly through highly regimented violence. You had to learn the rules because you could very easily end up dying by them. You don't want to have to summarily execute your soldiers or whip them ragged every other week, so you drill them when they're recruited, and you drill them very hard so they learn not to break the rules. A few examples doesn't hurt either and there was no shortage of those. Floggings, whippings, casual beatings, court marshals and executions. There were lesser punishments like demotions and fines as well, but those are punishments for officers, not recruits.

Spoken like someone who never went through boot camp or basic training.

>People nowadays are much better read and educated, and as a result are much better behaved and don't need orders repeatedly beaten into their thick skulls before they get it. They're less likely to lash out or need an attitude readjustment,

You have no idea how wrong this is, a lot of shit bags get processed through basic who struggle to adjust to military life and it's extremely common to see a lot of infighting during the early phases of basic training.

>Also, hazing recruits has never been permitted, it was and still is done on the DL. Inflicting cruelty on your soldiers doesn't make them better soldiers, it just teaches them to use cruelty as a tool to gain what they want. While that does make them better at terrorizing civilians, in the field they'll lose to soldiers who are more professional, which means they spent more time mastering the basics of soldiering: PT, Marksmanship, Land Nav, Squad STX.

Nope. Hazing is officially disavowed, unofficially its common amongst soldiers in combat roles. The purpose of hazing is to acclimate people into a subculture and force them to conform to a the norms of that group. You can haze and train at the same time, there's no opportunity cost being made there.

>Even back in the day it wasn't acceptable to be cruel to recruits, and there was a fairly decent sized scandal at West Point back then when a cadet was hazed to death by his officers.

And yet its still commonly done in West Point.

Sounds like you're cruel, power tripping faggots to be honest. Disgusting.

I hate to pull the whole "you just think this because you are virgin nerd with no life experience lol" shit, but ... if you'd experienced something like this you wouldn't have written that. I'm willing to bet you've never had to maintain your composure while somebody that close to you acted that aggressively, certainly not somebody in a position of authority over you. This being Veeky Forums, there's a good chance you're going to fire back and tell me how wrong I am and greentext some stories about your domineering father or boss or whatever, but if so I'm not buying it. You haven't experienced a situation like that. When you do, if you ever do, it will not make you laugh, it will stress you out and intimidate you (at least at first, until you learn to cope with the pressure) - you aren't immune. That shit works, that's why they do it.

You have to realize that if you take a single frame of anybody in the middle of making literally any expression there's a good chance it will look silly and unnatural. But in the moment, you're not seeing a single, silent frame of that guy's face. You understand that, right?

They saw your weener.

You watched full metal jacket and then decided to post a reply, huh?

read von clauswitz

>When did basic training/boot camp/recruit training become intense?
It has varied over time. American GIs in WW1 and 2 did not receive equal training. Some were held to a high standard, some weren't. Some got excellent training, others were allowed to skate because the Army needed every warm body it could find. Some of these men survived in wars, some didn't.

>Why did this happen?
Training is a well-understood part of the Army mission, especially after 9/11. Each branch has its standards and there is a procedure for every kind of training. I would say training is most rigorous after very public fuck-ups: Lynndie England, Jessica Lynch, Bergdahl, and that mentally ill wikileaks traitor. Training is easiest for recruits after years of peacetime, when senior NCOs are fat and the lack of wartime purpose instills a malaise in even the most dedicated. Commanders have a personal incentive (advancement) to keep discipline and physical fitness ratings high, though, so there is a longstanding baseline of effort for American troops. Americans are some of the best trained imo. Koreans are better. Israel is some of the worst.

t. army

>Because people must be broken for them to mindlessly accept orders

Now they don't. See the Stanford Prison experiment. People just have to be told that they have to follow certain rules, and if they don't follow the rules they will be punished. That's enough to make most people accept the chain of command.

>See the Stanford Prison experiment. People just have to be told that they have to follow certain rules, and if they don't follow the rules they will be punished. That's enough to make most people accept the chain of command.
Except that's not what happened at all. That's what Zimbardo claimed happened (although most analyses focus more on the behavior of the 'guards' than the 'prisoners'), but if you actually look at the experiment in depth instead of reading quick synopses, many of the 'prisoners' behaved rebelliously and clearly refused to accept the guards' authority, even in the face of increasingly harsh discipline.

American training is absolutely pussy tier when compared to the Russian one
youtube.com/watch?v=VFjZEOSVC6Y

That's not training lmao. That's just dumb ass NCO's on a power trip. It's what happens when your boss is a fuck up with a GED, all to common among the enlisted personnel

There's absolutely no hazing in Finnish army, and the conscripts are relaxed and the officers are competent and often funny guys too, if a bit tired.
t.went to the army 4 years ago

It's comical because the actual mannerisms of drill sergeants are pretty much traditional and look completely affected from an outsider's point of view. Shit like the knife hand would look like a joke to brit soldiers, just like the screeching of british sergeants would look hilarious to us muhreens.

Hard times create strong men
Strong men create good times
Good times create weak men
Weak men create hard times

Great meme,
Eatler.

Seems like kind of the reason why you guys would get bent over and raped if russia actually wanted to do anything.

>Spoken like someone who never went through boot camp or basic training.
Spoken like a true meat brain

>, a lot of shit bags get processed through basic who struggle to adjust to military life
It's always been that way, and always will be. There wasn't any golden age when every soldier was a hardcase and military life wasn't shitty and tedious

>You can haze and train at the same time, there's no opportunity cost being made there.
>And yet its still commonly done in West Point.
That's exactly what I said: they keep it on the DL, that prevents people from going overboard with it. It's a fine line between hazing and indoctrination and outright sadism, and can very, very easily spiral out of control until someone gets seriously hurt or killed. Look up the Stanford Prison Experiment. It also means that there needs to be a certain level of trust between the people being hazed because if you haze the wrong person he'll rat you out.

I'm fairly certain weaseling out of ones responsibilities has always been a core part of being a solider. At least the ones outside of combat.

Turns out that people don't do well if you treat them like shit. Surprise!

Hahahahhahjaha fucking autists.
I dont have to go as long as I stay here and i will never go. Why should i serve gooks whom i dont relate to other than foods. Plus they are into weird shits.
I hate their/our international students. I cant comprehend their way of social interaction even though i left Korea not too long ago. Fuck korean military never going there. Besides why should i fight for false flags

Wrong.

Gotta love it when somebody who's never experienced something talks about said experience to someone who actually went through it.

You don't know shit about the necessity of hazing in the military. It's absolutely necessary to build trust in a combat unit because your fellow grunts need to be able to rely on you, it's done to harden the boots and weed out the weak.

>It's a fine line between hazing and indoctrination and outright sadism

It can be sadistic, but so the fuck what? There are far worst conditions in the battlefield that a combat soldier will find themselves in compared to the hazing that they'll go through. As I said the hazing is designed to harden the men and weed out the week, this is particularly true for any of the leadership schools. In Ranger School if you show any weakness the instructors will notice and call you out on it; you either fix yourself or they and the other candidates will do everything they can to make sure that you washout. I know people who attempted suicide because the hazing was too much and they couldn't accept to themselves that they didn't belong there. A sad but absolutely necessary system.

da fuk

They have to get in your head so you play the game. Obviously apparent by your last couple lines, Brotherhood is obviously a lie to you. That you weren't the wash out is sad.

>enlist in the USAF, late 2016
>shitting myself for the brutal treatment, scared
>get to BMT
>they can’t touch you, can’t even swear
>wait in line for breakfast, someone looks off to the left
>female MTI runs up, can’t knife-hand because it’s too violent, starts screaming
>HOOOOOOLLY GUACAMOLE, TRAINEEEEE! HOOOOLY GUACAMOLE!
>whole flight is struggling not to laugh
>other MTIs see this, rush up
>WHAT THE PISS IS SO FUNNY, TRAINEES!? WHAT THE PISS!?
>take 3 hours of “don’t rape people” lectures every day
>get Sunday’s off for religious reasons

I know Air Force is cake.

Americans still recognize that war is hell and puts people through the worst shit in the world and want to prepare their men as best as they can for it. Normally when you join the military it’s to fight, not wear bright colors and march around the queens castle

You people are dumb. You can't get "indoctrinated" during boot camp unless you're a giant faggot.

What "indoctrinates" you isn't the lack of sleep or the verbal harassment or the physical portions. It's marching in unison and doing things as a group. And waiting in line. There's no modern life skill more valuable than spending hours in a line to fill out some check box in a text maze that is probably stored in a real maze of bookshelves.

People who talk about boot camp indoctrination are people who've never seen a boot camp, let alone judge them. If the kid is a regular normie faggot, he'll be a regular normie faggot. Boot camp doesn't change that. Working with teammates in environments everyone complains about but which highlight which people are your friends? That might change the faggot. But not the inner normie.

It's harsh compared to other western countries, though of course soft compared to a good few others. Eastern european armies are without fail exceptionally cruel to recruits.

It's always people who have never served, like yourself, who have this romantic notion of military life. Just because you wear the same uniform with someone doesn't mean that you're gonna get along or that you have respect for that person; my training platoon was full of fuck ups and retards who had no business in soldiering and seeing them graduate cheapened the experience for myself.

>Obviously apparent by your last couple lines, Brotherhood is obviously a lie to you.

You're an idiot if you think this. Brotherhood does exist for me, but that's a respect that's earned and never given; go serve in a combat position and maybe you'll figure out what I'm talking about.

>Gotta love it when somebody who's never experienced something talks about said experience to someone who actually went through it.
And I love it when some random asshole on the internet thinks his opinion means more than official military doctrine. This opinion wasn't relayed to me by some chair force ranger, but by a Force Recon officer who had his nipple ripped off in a hazing incident: It doesn't make them better soldiers, it only makes them better at inflicting pain on someone who won't fight back. I know for a fact that not all soldiers feel this way about hazing.

>necessary to build trust in a combat unit because your fellow grunts need to be able to rely on you
You build trust in a combat unit by being good at your job, period.

>It can be sadistic, but so the fuck what?
Then it stops becoming military training and starts becoming BDSM for straight men. You're not actually improving your worth as a soldier, you're getting your rocks off at someone else's expense.

>designed to harden the men and weed out the week
There are more productive ways of doing that than systematized bullying. More PT, for example.

>he doesn't know that all of the Guards regiments have been deployed to Afghanistan and Iraq alongside Americans.

Wow so profound
Faggot

Americans think you have it bad? In conscript militaries its not professional drill segeants fucking with you but earlier recruits who are your own age, have been fucked with just as badly in their basic training and therefore want to give as badly as they got it themselves. Basically giving teenagers authority to mess with other teenager who they consider below them because of 6 months more training.

Not really, no. A lot of the drill books from the 18th century give explicit instructions that the people in charge of training new recruits should treat them with kindness. Simes, Cuthbertson (I think) and the Baron Von Steuben all mention this.

That exact string of words needs to be rangebanned and an automatic IP ban