Kazakhstani Wewuzing

the Scythians weren't just similar to Iranics, they literally WERE Iranics.

IRAN
ARIA
!!!!!!11

Scythians were R1b, right?

It's like saying African Americans and English people are both equally Anglo because they speak English.

Original Indo-Iranians were more like Northern Europeans. Scythians didn't really mix with the browns that much while 99% of modern day Iranics are browns.

no R1a

Isn't this pretty much "we wuz people whose primary achievement was merely existing in this area"?

sad

>If americans were banned this site would improve.
This desu

weren't redheads suposed to be R1b, weren't scythians suposed to be redheads? they are represented as that all the time, plus R1b has a past in those areas

The redheads were the Budini who were allied with Scythians.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budini

>Original Indo-Iranians were more like Northern Europeans. Scythians didn't really mix with the browns that much while 99% of modern day Iranics are browns.

muh Nordic theory

Unfortunately for Iranian nationalists it has been confirmed by genetic studies

Andronovo horizon and Sintashta were the result of the westward expansion of Corded Ware, mediated by Afanasevo.

Source?

Haplogroups have nothing to do with pigmentation. It's only 2% of your DNA.

Allentoft et al 2015 Population genomics of Bronze Age Eurasia

then why are Scythians always depicted as redheads?

Really? Source please.

You do realize Corded Ware were phenotypically described as dark-eyed, and dark-haired with a darker complexion than modern Europeans? They were in fact darker than Neolithic Farmers in Europe.

They're not. They were described as blonde, perhaps even dirty blonde. Those redheads could've been easily assimilated.

If you think red or blonde hair is only present among muh Nordiks, then you don't know how genes work.

it's about associated traits user. For example, paternal A and B are strongly associated with melaninated skin.

there are blonde/redheady Scythian mummies

Cite the relevant fragment.

>muh Nordiks
>muh Nordic theory

nobody is talking about Nords here, stop conflating positions you disagree with

I'm trying to establish the legendary Scythian - Irish connection desu
Iran-Arian-Ireland

Iranics were originally Eastern Europeans, that should answer your question.
Jesus fucking Christ. Don't.

Why not user, this is my hobby.

>They were in fact darker than Neolithic Farmers in Europe.

Really? Source please.

>Iranics were originally Eastern Europeans
They weren't. They were already mixed when Proto-Indo-Iranian emerged.

Mixed with who? They came from Eastern Europe and mixed on their way to Iran.

it should obvious user, Eire etc. But everyone know's it's the Scots who originally hailed from Greater Scythia and came by way of the Tyrrhenian Sea and the Pillars of Hercules.

Yes they did mix with local Tocharian related Yamna in the Urals whom they replaced but these people had nothing to do with Iranians

>not the Mongoloids that currently live in the region
Yeah this guy literally knows zero things about Kasachstan

>on their way to what we now call Iran
fixd
also Afanasevo

>described as dark-eyed, and dark-haired with a darker complexion than modern Europeans
you're conflating Yamna (one example of late-PIEs) with Corded Ware.

>darker than Neolithic Farmers in Europe
simply false, they were progressively more lightly pigmented than most contemporary European groups with few exceptions in the far Scandinavian North.

uh sweetie

What about Chadic R1b? You do realize how retarded your argument considering associated traits are merely a function of time and geography?

BMAC. They met Tocharians much later. When Indo-Iranian language was already established.

>simply false
I would like a source from this. I remember reading that farmers already had genes for light skin.

>dude Scyths and Sarmatians looked like modern Iranians

Chadic R1b is downstream of Balkan WHG R1b(V88).
That means it came down from Europe either through the eastern Levant or directly through the Mediterranean.

Not my argument, never implied R1b was associated with red hair.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_L-M20#Chalcolithic_South_Caucasus

Chadic R1b is evidence of an early Eurasian migration into Africa, one of several.
>associated traits are merely a function of time and geography

What do you mean by this?

Andronovo were the ones mixing with BMAC, and they were already Iranic at that point.

>downstream of Balkan WHG R1b(V88)
dude what?

>they were already Iranic at that point
Evidence? Because the oldest Indo-Iranic language is Vedic Sanskrit which was created after the collapse of BMAC.

It doesn't matter to me, to me it matters that Scythia went form there to ireland/scotland, that's sick, they stopped at Galicia first btw

Sanskrit is Indo-Aryan, and is written

>fixd
fix'd

Every nomadic group gets assimilated because they compose a tiny genetic component of the effective population of the area they conquered. Invasions have very rarely change a region's base phenotype.

There is a distinction between the R1a of Europe and the R1a of Asia, Scythian remains have the Asian Z94 which is an Indo-Iranian lineage.

>WE Scots and Irish are Sarmatians even though Sarmatians spoke Satem languages closely related with other Indo-Iranic and Balto-Slavic dialects

>Scythian remains have the Asian Z94 which is an Indo-Iranian lineage.

>Chadic R1b
Ouch!

>very rarely
>Every
not really desu, see America

Sanskrit is a language, not a system of writing (the oldest examples were written in a Dravidian script). It's also younger than BMAC.

Can you not read?
Chadic and Balkan WHG R1b are in the same branch(L754 and V88) and steppic R1b associated with Indo-Europeans is on another one.

Latvia also had this type of R1b but that's not terribly surprising as it was partially settled by Balkan WHG after the ice age.

ancestraljourneys.org/mesolithicdna.shtml

Ctrl+F L754

yfull.com/tree/R-L754/

The Nigerian Chadoid Kano is way downstream.

And to offer a counterexample, look at Central America. Besides the elite, everyone looks like a fucking pureblood Indio.

>Another thread of Raciology and the incorrect use of halogrups.
Into the thrash it goes.

having chariots, bronze weapons, and the composite bow used to be like having an attack helicopter in the year 1750.

no shit, it's an Indo-Aryan language. What's your point?
>younger than BMAC
what does this suggest to you?

Butthurt Kazakh detected. Face it y*llow boy, Scythians were WHITE.

>incorrect use of halogrups
oh yeah? What's the correct use of haplogroups?
>Raciology
sad

>what does this suggest to you?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substratum_in_the_Vedic_language

> 55 loanwords entered Proto-Indo-Iranian during its development in the Sintashta culture in distant contact with the Bactria–Margiana Archaeological Complex, and then many more words with the same origin enriched Old Indic as it developed among pastoralists who integrated with and perhaps ruled over the declining BMAC.
It's irrelevant if they ruled over the late BMAC or not, but when BMAC collapsed this new population moved East to India. Indo-Iranians who invaded/migrated to India were already different people than Sintashta or Andronovo.

Or are you saying they just slaughtered all BMAC people and never intermarried with them?

incredible, but that has nothing to do with the origins of the early bronze age Iranic peoples.

Fpbp

And gunpowder and steel isn't? Lol.

uh, not implying firearms/bombs or high grade steel aren't important. In fact much the opposite.

you're not recognizing the effectiveness of early weapons systems when coupled with the fact that's the first time you've ever seen a horse.

El ogro de las Americas

Because artists are dumb

Kek no they were steppeniggers.
While germanics were getting their women abducted by romans these people ruled the steppes till other turkics took their place.

sad

Sounds to me like you're describing how the Aztecs felt when they first ran into the conquistadors.
And look at them now. Mexico still looks like a land of Indios, despite having a lot of Iberian R1b. So where are your associated traits now?

>Mexico still looks like a land of Indios
sure thing kid, let's pretend they aren't caucasoid

Steppeniggers were originally white.

...

WE

...

>Ancient Y-DNA data was finally provided by Keyser et al in 2009. They studied the haplotypes and haplogroups of 26 ancient human specimens from the Krasnoyarsk area in Siberia dated from between the middle of the 2nd millennium BC and the 4th century AD (Scythian and Sarmatian timeframe). Nearly all subjects belong to haplogroup R-M17. The authors suggest that their data shows that between Bronze and Iron Ages the constellation of populations known variously as Scythians, Andronovians, etc. were blue- (or green-) eyed, fair-skinned and light-haired people who might have played a role in the early development of the Tarim Basin civilization. Moreover, this study found that they were genetically more closely related to modern populations of eastern Europe than those of central and southern Asia.[134] The ubiquity and utter dominance of R1a Y-DNA lineage contrasts markedly with the diversity seen in the mtDNA profiles.

NOT
CONTROVERSIAL

excellent post

Have you ever met a Mexican in your life lol
Flat, wide noses
Epicanthal folds
Straight or wavy black hair
Straight up brown skin
Squat, round heads
Which one of these are Caucasoid features again?

...

stop comparing real history to Yakub

Mexicaans are on average 60 percent european user, phenotypes dont matter that much. Pure Indians are Also easily spotted

you've never met a caucasoid with brown skin?
I'll direct you straight to India.

>Flat, wide noses
>Squat, round heads
wow, racist much?

>The early Indo-Iranians are commonly identified with the descendants of the Proto-Indo-Europeans known as the Sintashta culture and the subsequent Andronovo culture within the broader Andronovo horizon, and their homeland with an area of the Eurasian steppe that borders the Ural River on the west, the Tian Shan on the east. Historical linguists broadly estimate that a continuum of Indo-Iranian languages probably began to diverge by 2000 BC, if not earlier,[9]:38–39 preceding both the Vedic and Iranian cultures. The earliest recorded forms of these languages, Vedic Sanskrit and Gathic Avestan, are remarkably similar, descended from the common Proto–Indo-Iranian language. The origin and earliest relationship between the Nuristani languages and that of the Iranian and Indo-Aryan groups is complex.

not R1b then, meh, then what were the traces of R1b were doing around iran?

uh no population is a monolith. Scythians probably had some significant R1b and J despite the preponderance of R1a1a. Maybe even G or N/O, I don't know for sure.

WUZ

they *were*

STEPPE NOMADZ

You dumb shitskin turd. Iranics were Eastern Euros with pale skin, often blonde hair and blue eyes.

>muh yogurt

Even genghis Khan was white you losers, we were Khans indeed