Do these guys deserve the shit they get from Russia?

Ukrainian literally means "By the sider", Hohols are subhumans that are good just at mass murdering of civilians

Ukriane isn't a real nation just like Belgium for starters. Their whole identity is that they are Russians that are butthurt about Russia.

Ukraine is as real as Russia, they're both russian states with strong claims to be the lead Russian state, Ukraine lost that struggle but that doesn't mean it's a meme country.

Ah yes, but those "Ukrainians" were called Kiev Polans.

So? Ukraine is not the native term for the country or its people, they're Kievan Rus or Little Russia.

Great Moravia is older than Memevan Rus

If an East-Slavic state based around Kiev somehow managed to unite the Rus principalities and then had the same history as Russia we would be memeing about the Finno-Ugric northerners LARPing as Slavs.

So? West Slavs =/= East Slavs.

Nigger said Ukraine was the first civilized Slavic state which is incorrect. It was Moravia.

Might as well split Burgundy from France since they are 10% different.

Ukraine is an artificial country made up by the German Empire and their puppets the Bolsheviks
also Crimea was given to Ukraine illegally even under the Soviet Union's laws

Yeah, they do. They are the most awful people in Europe. Albanians are far superior to them.
If you feel sympathy for fucking Ukrainians you're either mentally challenged or biased (because you hate Russia).

>Albanians are far superior to them.
t. inbred balkanoid mutt also known as analbanian

>Ukraine was the first civilized Slav state

Are Poles Slavs? Don't you have to be a human to be a Slav?

But fine, they were the first civilized EAST Slavs. happy now?

They deserve a genocide desu. Stalin was too good for them.

Carantania is the first slavic state; see Historia Langobardorum by Paul the Deacon.

300 years of Russia and 80 of gommunism fucks a country up

>ITT: Butthurt Russians

kurwa

Did a Ukrainian person touch you user?

most of self aware/nationalistic ukrainian lands were under poland for longer than they were under russia

iam Polish you tatar nigger

>Let's ignore the fact that the legitimately elected Ukrainian president was ousted in a Soros and CIA backed color revolution.

They do as Kiev has failed to recognize that Russia will not abide by having EU and NATO come any closer to its borders ( out of, I presume, reasons known to all - basic security concerns and legitimate geopoliticall worries of Moscow ). Russia is simply bound to either have all the neighbours as friends or at least neutral, or to smash any hostile neighbour and reduce their power as to not become threatened by foreign forces.

Ukrainians deposed, two times might I add, a democratically elected Yanukovich just because he recognized this simple fact and was thus more cooperative with Russia. Putin worked with Timoshenko after the first deposing of Yanukovich, but the second time was just too much. Ukrainian nationalists defied the electoral will of Ukrainian citizens, turned the country by 180 degrees by applying for EU and NATO, and now they bitch and moan because they got punished for starting shit. Putin simply made a calculation - if Ukraine is going to be an unstable borderland then he's going to take strategically important parts of it in order to lessen Russian dependance on Ukrainian cooperation. In short - talk shit, get hit.

It's not a question who's the bad guy here. It's about who's the dumb one. And Ukraine certainly qualifies for Darwin awards atm.

>hey you can't be part of Europe, you should stay poor as dirt forever because we're your neighbours and we need a buffer
Wow, and then Russians sit and think why everyone hates them.

Anyone remember that New Russia thing? Damn, Putin's trolls quickly forgot that thing, eh?

Ukraine is a part of Russia deal with it.

>Hey, don't side with my enemies who qould rake the first chance to take me out or I will have to defend my position
>Lol no
>Okay, Im taking Crimea as a required naval stronghold
>WAAAAAA YOU ARE EVIL I HAAATEEEE YOUUUUU

Also, I ain't Russian. You guys just went full retard. You expect Russia to cater to your needs and don't want to respect Russian needs. Plus you depose denocratically elected man twice just because "fuck Russia". And YOU dare to complain?

I don't see Finland having problems with Russia though.

The flag they chose though... Lol

>it's our right to invade and annex lands
>not russian btw

>It always seemed like Russia were the bad guys
Yes, you don't need to know more than this

>It's our right to keep our nation safe, so cooperate and at least be neutral

Tell me, if China placed bases in Mexico or Mexico turned anti-USA and said it will join an alliance aimed at threatening USA, you don't think USA should bitch slap Mexico for pulling that kind of shit? Of course it should.

Position of Ukraine is such that it is vital for Russian security, so Moscow can't afford to have threats coming from that direction. If that means invading, sure go for it. Why respect the security of a neighbour who actively works against your security? Geopolitics 101.

So stop that moralizing bullshit.

>Im taking Crimea as a required naval stronghold
Are you fucking retarded? Russia already had plenty of naval bases in the Black Sea, Crimea is in no way a "required naval stronghold" and why would they even need one in the first place? So they could invade more countries?

But are those geopolitical concerns still real? With modern weaponry having so much more range than in the past?
Or is it more a matter of prestige and power, controlling the old sphere of influence and all that?

>you don't think USA should bitch slap Mexico for pulling that kind of shit? Of course it should.
No, of course it shouldn't. Since when has the dealing of one country with another been any concern of anyone but those two countries?

Not that Russia Today shill but the Soviets built their naval bases primarily in Crimea, yes they have other much smaller facilities but losing the bases in Crimea would be a disaster for Russia. Besides, the population of Crimea is Russian and identifies as Russian, it should never have been added to Ukraine and only was because it would be easier to administer as part of Ukraine, not for any "historic" or "ethic" reasons. Of course the Soviets didn't anticipate the breakup of their country.

Maybe because it's better to have a monopoly on Black Sea naval bases that are right next door and to prevent a hostile country controlling a navalbase that can directly threaten your own naval bases?

Honestly, is it that hard to get throught that thick skull that Russia is reaaaaally touchy about ANY security threats?

>Yeah I will let you be my enemy AND let you hold a naval base which can threaten my naval base and thus my borders. It's what every smart country would do.

When you poke the bear dont cry when it rips your arm off.

Then you are a moron. USA should and would do that. Every sane country would do that. Thats why Israel occupies Golan heights to this day for example.

>When you poke the bear dont cry when it rips your arm off.
And when everyone calls you aggressor don't bitch and moan about "muh muh muh dindu nuffin it was volunteers who got tanks from the supermarket"

No but the people from the Donetsk and Lugansk republics seem to be pro-russian separatists and they believe in Russian government more than they trust the Ukrainian government and their political decissions (most importantly the decission of joining the EU)

So who can blame them? Even the Ukrainians hate Ukraine.

>When you poke the bear dont cry when it rips your arm off.
But this isn't a fucking bear, it's the leader(s) of one of the largest countries in the world in the 21st century, is it really too much to expect them to be more reasonable than a FUCKING BEAR?

If the world acted like you imagine it "should", then we would be at constant war. Every country forms alliances against other countries, in fact one country can very easily find itself on both sides of any conflict, because they might have an agreement in different areas with each of the belligerents. The fact another country considers yours a threat, and takes action to form an alliance against you, is in no possible universe a justification to attack that country. Literally all you would prove is that you are, in fact, a mad dog that needs to be put down.

>the people from the Donetsk and Lugansk republics seem to be pro-russian separatists
Ah yes, the civilian farmers and miners who just so happen to be right next to the Russian border cooperating with soldiers from Russia on vacation. Ah, such people's struggle.

Want to go study abroad there this summer.
>how fucked am I?

No. Countries don't operate on reasonableness, they function like psychopaths, because the ones that didn't were destroyed millennia ago. A country that doesn't seize an opportunity to strengthen itself is a country that will not survive the long haul, and a leader who doesn't seize such opportunities is a coward or a traitor.

Watch out, we've got a realpolitik Putinboo teenager in here.

Yeah thry are. Maybe Crimea by itself is not all important. But the fact that a rival wpuld be able to threaten Russian naval force and security from a base so close - that is important. Prestige and power, sure but not crucial. Pragmatism is Putins policy after all.
Georgia also tried similar shit. They wanted into NATO forgetting that they are of strategic importance to Russian security ( as who controls the Caucasus controls the passage from Iran to Russia which has been historically quite important ). And they got bitch slapped so hard that Russia did to it what USA did to Serbia - used local separatists to cripple the country and keep it obedient that way.

When you are small you better be smart or get butt raped and there will be no ine guilty but you for threatening the interests of stronger superpowers.

Baltic states in that regard are lucky to have entered NATO while Russia was still unable to secure its interests. Ukraine and Georgia failed to see that they need to be careful with Russia now as that time has passed.

Ukraine is not a homogenous state, it has a very clear northwest / southeast split. Eastern Ukraine is inhabited by Russian speaking people who identify as Russians,not as Ukrainians. They absolutely are the ones doing the fighting, Russia is merely providing training, satellite surveys, equipment, supplies, and possibly some special forces assets, they're not sending troops although again they're not exactly trying to stop volunteers who want to go fight, either.

Sure. I aint defending Rusdia by saying it dindu nuffin. It did. It worked. It was needed for Russia.

Depends whereabouts. The fighting is in the east, and Kiev is probably a dangerous place to go, but if you stick to some western city like Lvov you should be fine.

Zero troubles if you just avoid politics.

Are we talking historically or today?

>Russia is merely providing training, satellite surveys, equipment, supplies, and possibly some special forces assets
>merely

Also
>muh volunteers
lol stop watching RT, vatnik

What part of the word merely confuses you? You claim they are invading, they're not, they're merely assisting the rebels.

This is essentially what Hitler did, eventually all other countries got tired of his shit, WW2 broke out and 60 million people died. This mentality is simply not appliable in the modern age unless you want a bloodbath on your hands.

Russia is """"merely"""" providing 99% of what's needed to continue the fight.
Also you're a braindead idiot if you really think they're not sending soldiers and the soldiers there are civilians.
>volunteers on vacation
Yeah, sure, buddy.

You think the world doesnt operate like that?
Then why is Israel all chummy with Saudi Arabia behind closed doors?
Why did USA put down Sadaam by allying the world against him when he threatened their regional interests?
Why did USA and USSR fund coups and organise two military alliances against each other?
Why are Japanese, Koreans and Taiwanese allied against China?
Why is USA forming alliances against China ( both Obama and Trump spoke about the Chinese threat )?
Why is EU pushing for an army in face of Russian rearming?
Why is Turkey fucking over Kurds in Syria if not to pre ent Turkish Kurds from dreaming wet dreams of independence ( all with compliance from USA and Russia )?
Why was Russia helping USA in Afghanistan if not for security concerns against islamists near its borders?
Why x10000000 every power balancing that happened and that happens actually happen?

Because power politics are still the way geopolitics are shaped. No friends, no enemies, just interests of being piwerful and secure as much as you can.

They are mostly civilians tho but there are volunteers from Russia and other slavic countries such as Serbia

Stealing the name fyi.

Also - prove that realpolitik is wrong.
Protip:you can't. It fucking works. Don't beliwve me? Ask our most satisfied customer - her Bismarck.

No, Hitler acted like a solipsist, he showed that he could not be negotiated with so the rest of the world put him down like a dog. A psychopath is not a wild animal that attacks everything it sees, a psychopath is perfectly aware that other people can kill him if he just goes around attacking people, so he moderates his behavior and plays by the rules when people are watching him. However, unlike a normal person, the psychopath doesn't internalize these rules as being "good", they are simply a game to be played, and when the opportunity comes for the psychopath to better himself at another's expense, he does not hesitate or feel remorse. This is the sense in which countries act like psychopaths, the successful ones anyway.

Yes, merely that, as opposed to invading. Are you dense? Don't you know what merely means? Go look it up you illiterate.

If you think the answer to ANY of your questions is anything other than "because it was in their own self interest" then you're wrong.
>No friends, no enemies
This part I agree with, countries are wholly pragmatic in their behaviors, like psychopaths. They might stand by an ally, even year after year, but only so long as they both need one another's protection. This is why the "balance of powers" system and the "mutually assured destruction" paradigm are the only periods in history marked by frequent and lasting periods of peace between the strongest states, when every country feels the need for allies, then no country can afford to isolate itself by turning on those allies.

Dude, he is just Ukrainian who's national pride was dragged through shit for the last 3,5 years. Be a little more understanding as to why he is not being rational.

Nope. Hitler wanted to grab more than needed. E. Europe worked to form an antigerman ( and antisoviet ) block but failed because we E. Europeans are kinda shit at cooperating. And Hitler picked them off one by one then. UK didnt defend Poland because of "muh liberty" but because it recognized that beyond that point Germany would become a hegemon on the continent and that is unacceptable to British interests.

War breaks out when power balance becomes distorted severly.

It baffles me how Amerimutts with no history or culture to speak of criticize Macedonia, Moldova and Ukraine "because they're not real, they have no history or culture!"

Eh I wish the Ukrainians all the best in the world, but that clay doesn't belong to them. The whole carve up of eastern Europe was such a botched job, so many ethnicities split between arbitrary lines of a map.

They are just "concerned citizens" who happen to be trained soldiers.

Nooothing to see here. Move along grazhdanin.

Well its for like a month. I'm really interested in this part of the world, I guess being from Texas it seems like a really foreign place. I also read alot of easter front-ww2 type shit. Anyways,
Hows the food? Is it cheap?

>Hitler acted like a solipsist, he showed that he could not be negotiated with

That's why he continually tried to negotiate peace with GB, France, etc., right?

By your line of thinking, it was Churchill (the /real/ non-negotiator of WWII) who caused the war's destruction.

Yes this always makes me kek. Or when someone calls an ethnicity "artificial", as tho there is such a thing as a natural one.

Oh cool! My first sighting of Russian shitpo$ters on Veeky Forums!

COOL. Or maybe just Putinboos, whatever.

EVERYTHING is cheap, not only in Ukraine, in the whole of Eastern Europe. You might find a few ultra touristy places where things cost /12 what they do in the States, everywhere else its pennies on the dollar.

>volunteers from Serbia

Fucking kek. Bunch of nasty ass chetniks on one side, and brain dead Croatian ustashe on the Ukrainian side. Oh, the flashbacks to happier times.

Everyone hates Ukraine

Russia

Poland

Turkey

Hungarians

Romanians

Moldovans

Bulgarians

White Russians

You forgot
>Ukrainians

sounds nice and comfy.
Are u from there?

Ofc. All out of self interest. Countries would do genocide if it meant some benefit to them. Luckily, they stick to diplomacy more and more over time, being careful not to upset each other.

But when a country refuses to listen and play tge game ( just rememver the Concert of Vienna and how jealously that order was guarded ) shit goes down. And if thats a small country...well, their fault for being dumb. Honestly, N. Korea is smarter than Ukraine at this point.

>Bulgarians
I didn't know I hate Ukrainians. Thanks.

No but I went all round that part of the world maybe 10 or 15 years ago. Never had any trouble, obviously you should avoid gangs of drunken young men and stuff like that, but the people were without fail friendly and welcoming. Also the chicks REALLY like American men, if you know what I mean.

Only with UK when he conquered France and thought he scared the Brits enough. He misjudged.
Also, Hitler negotiated the Munich agreement and the shat all over it.

He was unreliable, at best. The West tolerated Franco despite his evil deeds just cuz he was willing to cooperate.

...

Ukraine had the misfortune of not being an ally to the West before it collapsed, so Russia knew she could get away with a lot more in terms of supporting the rebels than it would normally have been able to, sure the West would complain but unless Russia outright invades, there's really nothing the West can legitimately do beyond the usual financial sanctions. I don't blame Putin for helping the rebels, in fact I would think he was weak if he had not done so, it is the right thing to do for Russia, and that is what Putin's job is all about. At the same time I love Ukrainians and this whole thing has been a terrible blow to them just when things were looking rosy.

>Also the chicks REALLY like American men, if you know what I mean.
Yeah they like their wallets.

Whatever, its cheap to show a girl a good time out there and they are hot as fuck.

>Whatever
I elaborated on what you said. It's not like anyone digs what Americans look like.

You got it all backwards, Russia is the one everyone hates

>Romanians

I don't hate Ukrainians. My girlfriend is actually half-Ukrainian and I myself have great-grandparents from there.

Ukrainians dig money and passports, you mean. Nobody other than Amerimutt natives like Amerimutts in a romantic or sexual way, they're fat and stupid and swarthy. Ukrainians, being money craving prostitutes, will happily fuck some dumb mutt a couple times so that his pea brain will propose to her. Then she will divorce him ASAP and remarry a Ukrainian man who lives in America.

Love me, love my dollars, idgaf if it means I get to fuck Slavic qts.