Why is the concept of honor so important for humans? Wars, duels and deaths happened because of it...

What do you mean we stopped honoring each other?

Even something as brutal as MAD has an element of honor to it.

We're social apes so we have a social hierarchy in the back of our mind. As you advance upwards, your selection of mates increases in quantity and quality. The name of your family increases in prestige and stature and the informal privileges a higher social class brings.

"Honor" is part of a system of language games where tribal perception and loyalty gets you better bitches. Maybe not you personally but someone in your family gets (a higher chance) of better bitches.

>"Honor" is part of a system of language games where tribal perception and loyalty gets you better bitches. Maybe not you personally but someone in your family gets (a higher chance) of better bitches.
So...patriarchy.

Yes but in a normative sense. It's not like a matriarchy would be less cruel. But we're also talking about a world where seals and apes, even humans, have sexual dimorphism.

90% of women are physically weaker than all men. Even the top 10% of women only rise above the weakest 10% of men.

Of course it's going to be a patriarchy. You have sexual dimorphism and the inherent "value" of females over most males. You can wish for a non-patriarchy but they only exist as isolated gardens in the world, protected only by the caprices of fate and/or extraordinary circumstances.

Read about honor cultures vs duty cultures. I think it boils down to be a way of enforcing rules/keeping peace when formal legal institutions can't serve this function.

Extraordinary circumstances called modern progress, something which is more desirable than endless practices of honor-killings. Something that needs to be taught for future generations and finally become ordinary in the future.

Matriarchal societies have existed. They tend not to be as successful as patriarchal ones. A successful civ will incentivize men to act as father to the children he sires. The matriarchies I'm aware of have men coming and going and therefore don't have the same level of paternity certainty in a patriarchal monogamous society. Thus not the same incentive to invest heavily in offspring.

it's a way to impose your authority and gain the respect of others, which means power
why do people respect that? because if your enemy is ready to throw his life for his ideals he is in a position to reach more than the one who only wants to stay alive
that directly links to leading aura, alpha attitude etc etc yes basically an upgraded version of showing how big your dick is or any other kind of showoff from animals

Isn't the concept of patriarchy effectively obsolete in the contemporary western world where it is objectively more advantageous to be born as a female in terms of social and institutional privileges? How does muscular strenght alone give you a long-term advantage in a 21th century first-world city if you're not a professional athlete?

It's a more complex version of social hierarchy. We're social animals who like having tiers of people and respect people who rise to the top and disrespect those at the bottom.

We've advanced as a species so this game has upped in difficulty, complexity and ways to win (you dont only need strength nowadays, in fact strength is not that useful in the first world) but the core ideas remain.

Why, you might ask again? Might as well ask why Gorilla males fight each other or birds shake their feathers to attract females.

Someone who lives in the ghetto today would say respect is paramount because that's all you really have in your community. You don't have money, you don't have power, you don't have influence beyond the respect youv'e earned.

Perhaps we have an evolutionary urge to defend ourselves and our perceived "selfness" against other competing tribes/mates.

We are all equalized by death and so we hope that by honorably treating our enemies that they will treat us honorably when it’s our turn to die.

>Do you not know of honor-killings? It's because of patriarchy that makes men obsessed with the idea of 'this or death!'. It's tied with reckless masculinity, among others.
Long story short, we're all letting our inner primary instinct take control of us all the time. For sex, revenge, opportunity, competitivity and so on. You can call it consciounsness or instinct but as long as we don't decide to all level it up we're kind of doomed as a specie.

That's good and all, except most duels were all about petty shit like getting cucked or maternal insult, pretty much anything like that.

Pride

Defending your or your family' honor isnt an empty ideal and sure as shit aint a spook.

You let people trample on your metaphoric person (fuck your wife, insult your mother, kill your kin) and you're setting a precedent that its okay to shit in your territory. Its not like most who does this want to fucking duel. But it was a matter of defense for your and your kin's character. To show that crossing you meant potential violence.

Ghetto nigger tier logic.

he's correct tho
also there not only phisical violence, there's no need to actually beat up someone today

The concept of duels is extremely religious.

The only reason that duels existed in the first place wasn't selfishness or 'honor', whatever that would mean in this circumstance, it was the idea that God would intervene and cause whoever was guilty to die.

That was some supreme level of faith.

trial by combat wasnt the only form of duel to ever exist.

If someone disrespects you, you want some compensation for it. It's not hard to understand, people are not your toys to abuse.

Why would God help someone who challenges someone to a duel just to make him die? Seems like bad faith.

This. If you garner respect you move up the tribal ladder. In less complex societies, your honor was the ticket to respect, attention from females, social support from the tribe, etc
The honorable activities garner respect because they help ensure the tribe itself survives. Things like being an excellent hunter, keeping your word, being brave enough to enter deadly combat all help the tribe survive, and thus the tribe respects you for taking on those burdens.
Activities like stealing, cheating, betrayal and murder are dishonorable because they undermine the unity and well-being of the tribe.

In many cultures, wealth serves as the way for one person to gain influence over another. But not all cultures have access to that much wealth. Honor and bravery are a way to set up that kind of hierarchy even if you're from a place where there isn't much disposable income for anyone.

Btw does anyone know any book suggestions for this topic?