Tell me about the battle of Kursk, Veeky Forums

Was Operation Citadel doomed from the beginning?

The battle was quite close, but even if the germans had won it would have been a phyrric victory and they still would have lost the war. They were running out of "gas"

Well, given the krauts melted their gun barrels killing Sovs, destroyed thousands of tons of Sov equipment and still couldn't destroy the hordes that replaced them, it appears it wasn't possible to win. Maybe if they'd attacked before the Sovs were prepared, it could have worked better.

Yes, aoviet an british intellegence saw it coming and the soviets had constructed massive fortifications to counter it. Kursk showed that the 'blitzkreig' really wasnt all it was touted to be, against prepared and determined opponents with deep defenses it was stopped easily.

Also the germans were relying on untested wsapons to carry the day but had no strategic reserves whatsoever. The soviets had massive reserves and even though they lost far more equipment than the germans they could replace it im a matter of days, the germans could not.

Actually they didn’t capture shit for equipment at kursk, indicating that the soviets retreated in good order

Reminder that the Germans did such a bad job at concealing this attack that the Soviets unleashed a pre-attack bombardment on the German lines before they attacked.
Fucking dumb attack without any chance of turning the tide of the war. Guderian's idea of going on the defensive was a better idea.

>going on the defensive

that's basically conceding defeat, their industry was only falling further and further behind the allies. at least with kursk they had some kind of chance

They might've been able to force a stalemate, an armed peace as it were. They had no chance with Kursk, sorry.

They had less than 20% chances of pulling it off, at best.
Only the meth-addled minds of the German High Command saw those numbers and said "Fuck it, let's do it".
>The only alternative was slowly getting whittled down by the massive disparity in industrial military output.
Guess what, that happened anyway, except even faster.

20% > 0%

They ran out of "gas"- Those gas chambers are really something huh
You made me laugh irl, thank you user

When losing means total collapse of your front, only a raving methhead would take that chance.

Wha'dja know, he did.

Hitler was stupid but you are too.
What's the use of a longer war ? None.
Much better to take a small chance.

Should have capitulated after it failed though.

Yeah, but that would go completely against Hitler's autism who would never surrender and still thought he could turn the situation around with America/Britain and the Soviets balls deep inside of Germany.

A massive summer offensive could have worked -if they hadn't attacked the place where the largest concentration of Soviet forces were sat in three defense lines. Hitler never understood encirclement, blitzkrieg, any of it. The Allies decided not to poison the water tank on his train because he was too valuable to their war effort.

After Stalingrad, the Soviets demanded unconditional surrender from the Germans.
The Nazis had no intention of accepting, not least because they were quite aware of what would happen after surrendering to the Allies.
Heck, no state with a military still partly functional would've accepted it.

attacking the kursk SALIENT would reduce the size of the front and retake lost territory. Encircling it would enable the tide to (maybe) turn.
It was the only real place you could attack.

The germans were certainly given a spook

Except the blitzkreig only really ever succeeded when it had the element of surprise and achieved quick breakthrough, kursk was the most obvious place to attack and had miles deep defenses.

>completely against Hitler's autism who would never surrender and still thought he could turn the situation around with America/Britain and the Soviets balls deep inside of Germany.
This is more of Germanic autism in general, even Ludendorff believed he could knock out the Entente in 1918 and force them to negotiate, rather than vice versa.

this is true as well. It was fucked anyway. But attacking kursk was the most solid option, other targets didn't do much.