Name ONE more traiturous entity in history

They weren't castrated though.
How do you want young boys to become burly soldiers if you take away their balls?

You kill their family?

Judas

That's also bullshit, only boys were taken from families which had atleast several sons.

>justifying slavery

mehmed detected

I didn't justify it you imbecile, I'm just telling you how it went. You might not like it but it is how it went.

>They were literally taken as slaves so that they could become the nobility of the empire
>slave class
>nobility

nice try memeth

Varangians.

...

I literally do not understand how the fuck defending the blood tax system became so popular among liberals on the net

Italy in general

What did he mean by this?

Someone had to say it

>taken as slaves
>islamized and turkified
>but educated
>got salary in a time when poeple lived from harvest to harvest
>got pension later on
>if smart could become administrator instead of soldier
>could even become the grand vizier which is the most powerful man after the sultan
>grand viziers later became the real rulers of the empire

How the fuck is this not the nobility you retard, they lived better than almost all commoners.

...

>mfw the praetorians get uppity

>>got salary in a time when poeple lived from harvest to harvest
ignorant

Explain to me then how I'm wrong about an age when most people were still farming for a living.

Boyars

For the same reason clergy=\=nobility despite their similar privileged status. Warrior class is warrior class even if they should have a chance to be raised to the status of nobility.

Criticising the Ottomans is /p-p-p-pol/ tier, so they feel obligated to defend them.
I find it funny, because most of these people would genuinely feel more in common with the Byzantines if they bothered to study them.

>abstain from executions
>provide public support for orphans
>hospitals for the poor
>unemployment subsidies
>sacked by crusaders because they formed alliances with Turks
>had a mosque in the city so Muslim traders could pray
>Jewish district characterised by great wealth, Jews involved in silk weaving since the fourth fucking century

HURRRRRRRRRRRR FUCKING /pol/ FAGGOTS I HATE SISSY WH*TOID CRUSADERS KARA BOGA HUR HUR HUR

You forget how the Sultan chopped and changed viziers when it suited him. Even Suleiman, who every apologist dickrides, had his good friend and vizier beheaded on a rumour and spent the rest of his autistic, bipolar life regretting it.

Based Constantinian, best emperor ever, erasing those shitters that destroyed Rome.

The original post that started this argument was wrong on almost all counts regarding the janissaries.

why weren't Varangians as messy?

>Kidnapped
Yup
>Castrated
Mostly the ones used for administration, so partially correct
>slaves
By all practical accounts yeah
>islamic state
Are you going to try to counter this with "muh tolerance"?

You are clearly talking with triggered poltard, they can't see the ottomans or any form of islamic countries in objective light, a poltard can rest only when he has claimed that everything muslims did was evil compared to european deeds

They never put down roots or were tied to local political forces like the Praetorians from the start or the Janissaries eventually did. They remained outsiders who only got paid doing the one job and nothing else.

>an age when most people were still farming for a living.
the modern era did not have most people as farmers. There was a wide variety of jobs, and after the fall of Roman Empire even in Europe many were not farmers. Serfs sure, but there jobs other than farming.

Janissaries were not castrated, period. The eventual position they reached didn't change that. They were also considered loyal troops for as long as they were pulled from war prisoners and devshirme, because it was when they were recruited from free-born Muslims that they became kingmakers. And they existed as personal property of the sultan, not as agents of any Islamic bureaucracy, and the very system that produced them was at odds with the religious bureaucracy.

Poor Pertinax

Mamelukes of Egypt show that being both a slave and a member of the ruling elite is not incompatible.

>their treachery is quite justified
What does this mean? How did Janissaries replacing one sultan with another have anything to do with anything you brought up?

Besides, the early corps were extremely loyal, so it doesn't make any sense.

werent varangians more known to be fiercely loyal but had no will to avenge their employer?

name at least one occasion

>be Italian
>backstab someone
They didn't change in 2000 years...

>it's okay when others do it

an explanation isn't an excuse

Butthurt austrian detected

>Taken from your fucking parents as a young boy
>Forced into a shitty religion and given a Turk name
>Some of them never saw their family again
Fuck you asshole, don't even try to justify what the T*rks did, its barbaric and disgusting as a practice.

The VenetiANUS

The nobilty is originially the warrior class

Abraham Lincolns security team

Not him but he never justified it, just stated facts.

THE venetiANUS DURING HIS CHILDHOOD... IS FORCED TO BURN,, PILLAGE,,, AND PLUNDER THE BYZANTINE EMPIRE
``THE venetiANUS ``CONQUERS`` ISLANDS. TO PRODUCE`` THE MOST DISGUSTING TRADE POSTS!!..the venetiANUS DOESN'T PRAY , DOESN'T STUDY THE BIBLE ,
DOESN'T GO TO CHURCH , DOESN'T REPENT HE'S A SACRILEGIOUS TOOL
CONNIVING , WICKED , EVIL , PROFANE , REPUGNANT

-HOW DO YOU SAY venetiANUS IN ``LATIN ???

*``VENETOPITECUS``

HOW TO RECOGNIZE A venetiANUS IT'S THE EASIEST THING, THESE ARE HIS CHARACTERISTICS: ?
0- THEY'RE UGLY, HORRIBLE, DISGUSTING, SEPARATIST...SMELLY
1- THEY'RE MERCHANTS AND PROFITEERS, LIKE GENOANS, SIMILAR TO PISANS
2- THEY'RE DWARFS, 1M50 TO 1M60, LIKE THEIR TURKISH ALLIES
3- THEY'RE MENTALLY CHALLENGED FROM CENTURIES OF DRINKING TOXIC CALLED ``SPRITZ`` AND ``APEROL``
4- THEIR ASSES ARE FLAT, BOTH MEN AND WOMEN
5- THEY DON'T HAVE A HEART, SINCE THEY DON'T NEED IT
6- THEY HAVE ENORMOUS NOSES LIKE SHARKS OR TUCANS
7- THEY'RE MONKEYS, NAPOLÉON CALLED THEM SO
8- THEY'RE SEA-JEWS AND HAVE NO MORALS
9- THEY HAVE PROTUBERANT CHEEKBONES
10- THEY HAVE ROUND SWOLLEN FACES, BECAUSE THEIR WOMEN FUCKED AUSTRIANS

The Gang of 8.

...

So this is how cretin looks like.

Were they captured as slaves themselves? I thought Janissaries were the children of slaves.

user the Janissaries were dangerous because they were highly trained in firearm tactics, not because of being big and strong.

I'm sure they would've killed Nero if he didn't kill himself first.

That whole post is bullshit. The janissaries were a tax.
Initially, muslims had to serve in the army, and christians had to pay money for the army. Those were the only taxes.
Later as the empire grew it needed more soldiers, so the christians also had to serve. Except they didn't want to both serve and pay money, so it had to be done forcefully. Every christian family was visited by the taxman to get their first born healthy boy, and they were given some money or food to make up for the lost farmhand. Then the boy was educated in a military academy, european officer style, in sciences, discipline, music, arts, administration, and of course war. Those were the jannisaries.
It was taken differently along the empire. Jews didn't give any, they just paid more money. In the west Balkans, it was prestigious, and people even bribed the taxman to take two of their sons, or their unhealthy sons. In the east Balkans, it was a shame and a sin, so families cut off fingers or ears from their boys, to make them unhealthy and illegitimate, or dress them like girls when the taxman is in town.

At no point was there slavery or castration, thats just nonsense. It was an involuntary rags to riches kidnapping. The victims themselves appreciated and loved it, as did some families, but most families obviously didn't want to never see their son again.

>Aurelian

It hurts so much lads

but they were eunuchs....some acted as harem guards for the S*ltans

Harem guards were eunuchs, but they weren't janisarries. Those are different positions.
Additionally harem guards were black, so that if the operation to make them infertile didn't work (and back then you couldn't be sure) the child will show that its not the sultan's by being half black.

The Varangian guard were probably the most loyal elite imperial guard of any empire. They were completely kept completely blind when it came to Byzantine politics though, and their loyalty always lies with the living emperor (aka the guy that pays them), they never really betrayed the emperor but they didn't mind serving the guy who assinated the last one either.

don't forget of high chance of dying in some swamp fighting border skirmishes

what are the most loyal forces then? Modern ones?

That's not treacherous, they aren't even catholic.

When did this circle end?

When the guard was not busy stabbing emperors, regular troops took to the task.
It's fascinating to witness how the Romans would go to the end of the world to be crowned emperor, when the list of emperors who died of natural causes is so short.

Funny how they don't expect a lot of loyalty from a hired gun.

v*nice

The Devshirme didn't automatically put boys in military service.

The Devshirme takes them, but the boys undergo through a process of selection in the Enderun System. The best and smartes went to become government bureaucrats with a big chance of landing high posts. The ones who excelled physically and in martial training were sent to the Qapikulu, the personal army of the Padishah, to become Janissaries.

The shittiest boys were handed to the Feudal Sipahi to become regular soldiers.

that's because your only conception of slavery is 19th century chattel slavery in the Americas. Slave systems were hugely diverse throughout history and in cases like the mamluks and janissaries conferred huge advantages and were something akin to meritocracies in their prime.

>clergy=\=nobility
you have no clue about medieval history if you think these two are incompatible. to take the most blatant example, "nepotism" became a word because the tendency of popes cardinals and bishops to appoint their nephews to high ecclesiastical offices as part of a general scheme of advancing the wealth and prestige of their noble families.

take that turkish dick out of your mouth you pathetic worm

PROTIP: you know what is the formal title of the elite personal house-cavalry of the Ottoman Empire, the ranks of which you can find both the commander of all Ottoman armies in addition to the Admiral of the Fleet, and the richest, most powerful military commanders of the Empire?

Qapikulu.

It literally means "Door Slave."

>Taken from your fucking parents as a young boy
this actually didn't happen. historians have debunked this myth and showed from records that parents WILLINGLY gave up their children because it meant the potential for huge social mobility. Not to mention that parents kept in contact with their siblings and some janissaries remained crypto-christians.
>Forced into a shitty religion and given a Turk name
entirely subjective on your part and probably taken from your contemporary biases of modern "turkey", which had anyway very little linguistically or culturally in common with the cosmopolitan Ottoman ruling elite. Ottoman elite in fact hated "turks" aka muslim anatolian peasants. Turkish pride only became a thing in the 1910s.
>Some of them never saw their family again
"some" is the key word here. the statement carries the assumption that "family" is the basis of all meaning and happiness when it can be the contrary.

titles=/= reality
see: feudalism

So that's why they used niggers! You seem knowlegable, do you have any lecture or podcast to recommend on the subject?

>waaaaa history is mean :(((
Go back to /pol/ moralfag

The origin of those titles came from a Muslim tradition of buying Nomadic people as military slaves. Which continued under the Ottomans considering they had Mamluks.

Enforces user's point about how slavery is differently perceived in many societies.

And knight comes from servant.