From all sources that I have looked into, this seems to be my unbiased truth. Tell me why I'm right/wrong. This is meant to be a discussion thread. Here it goes...
>6,000,000 is most likely a purposeful overestimate.
>Hitler definitely abused ethnic minorities (I don't think anyone disputes this).
>I'm not a White Nationalist but considering Hitler's hatred for Eastern Europeans in general, he seems like a shitty role model
>Hitler's evil, like most war winners' enemies was made into an over exaggerated comic villain for propaganda purposes.
>Stalin is another example of someone who, while evil, has an exaggerated death toll for propaganda purposes (unless you believe he killed 25% of the Russian poplualtion)
>I don't know if Hitler was purposely trying to actually eradicate the Jews, however he was clearly committing ethnic cleansing and he never denied this
>the real number of Jews who died in the entire war was probably no more than 1.5 million, a number inflated by the overrepresentation of Jews in communist and socialist partisan groups and the Commisariat which the Germans openly acknowledged kill on sight policies on
In the end, Hitler was a vehement racist who liquidated even Jewish thinkers who agreed with him. His aggression led to the death of 30 million people in the European Theatre. But that's all in the past and I want the truth. Primary sources are appreciated.
What's the verdict on Uncle A?
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The exaggerations are in the kind of people who would be targeted and from when it was obvious who would be targeted, and in how many people were subjected to the most unusual means of execution. And then there is minimization of the crimes of other European empires in other wars.
Six million is a high estimate, five point five is the conservative one. This is based on census records from before and after the war. Between six and eight million Jews in Europe and Russia before the war, and between one and two million people who made it out.
The Nazi regime was trying to remove Jews from Germany from the start. No Eastern Front means no opportunity to engage in large scale killings. No war means more opportunity to drive Jewish people out of Nazi controlled territory, and no additional millions of Jews inside their territory. You do know that Hitler was trying to kill the Jews.
,000,000 is most likely a purposeful overestimate.
I see this posted more and more often, and its based on nothing. I think its just deniers having all their points proven wrong and just reverting back to this because they still cant come to just admitting they were completely wrong
This was in February of 1939. Its Hitler saying that if another world war happens, it will lead to the destruction of the jewish race in europe
youtube.com
There is no doubt that the nazi plan, from the start, was to annihilate jewish people from existence. Also, this idea that it was the soviet/communist/jews who made up or exaggerated the holocaust holds no ground when all of the initial reports of it came from the Polish Underground.
5.1 was the original number but we round up to 6 because 6 is a magic number among Jews for various cultural reasons. That's not even counting the other supposed 5 million which is 10000% a made up number from the 70s.
The other five million? Then that was a theory that was dismissed before I started reading about the holocaust.
Okay so 5.1 rounded up to 6 for various reasons. Do you think you'd get much push-back from a real scholar on the subject if you led with that one?
Also the census reports post 1948 was taken over by the AJC which I wouldn't consider quite as unbiased as the original calculations by World Almanac.
>5.1 was the original number but we round up to 6 because 6 is a magic number among Jews for various cultural reasons.
the 48 census is based on prewar estimates
I mean it's not like the Holocaust was a secret at that point. The six million narrative was already widespread. I just don't understand why it would take seven years to put that into the stats book. Not to mention that they slashed the pre war numbers by a whole million which, even if you believe the AJC with all your heart, puts the number to only 4.1 million. It doesn't make sense to me but if you make a good case, I'll listen.
Heres the case, the 48 census was based on estimates from before the war, let alone the holocaust, even started.
Very few of those three million Polish Jews made it out, and only a fraction of the three million Russian Jews made it out.
Then we have relatively larger fractions of the other Jewish populations escaping or surviving, with some exceptions where every single one was killed, as I believe happened in one of the Baltic states.
>"...the greater the number of Jews liquidated, the more consolidated will the situation in Europe be after this war."-Mar 6, 1942
>"The procedure is a pretty barbaric one and not to be described here more definitely. Not much will remain of the Jews. On the whole it can be said that about 60 per cent of them will have to be liquidated whereas only about 40 per cent can be used for forced labor."-Mar 27, 1942
>""Short shrift is made of the Jews in all eastern occupied areas. Tens of thousands of them are liquidated."-april 29,1942
>"At bottom, however, I believe both the English and the Americans are happy that we are exterminating the Jewish riff-raff."-Dec 13, 1942
>"We are now definitely pushing the Jews out of Berlin. ... On the Jewish question, especially, we have taken a position from which there is no escape."-March 2, 1943
>"[Hitler] approved of my measures and specifically ordered me to make Berlin entirely free of Jews."-March 9, 1943
>"There is therefore no other recourse left for modern nations except to exterminate the Jew...."-may 13, 1943
what did he mean by this?
You are assuming that through translation and linguistic changes over the past 75 years, "exterminate" holds the same connotation in modern English as it does old German. There are countless cases such as Treblinka where claims of purposeful genocide have been proven impossible with the use of physics and experimentation. Many of the claims are complete and utter nonsense. There are no bodies at Treblinka and the supposed "mass graves" have been shown to have undisturbwd earth.
During the same time period, there was a massive discrepancy of the same magnitude in the stats in regards to Christians in North America. No one believes there was a genocide of Christians in America.
They were melted down to make soap. Why else would you liquidate a jew?
im still not convinced that they were trying to exterminate jews. Lebensraum, Haavara agreement, the timing of establishing of first concentration camps and starving jews at the camps click in my head in their places too perfectly.
>Planning war against a country with plenty of land
>Trying to rid jews from your country
>Start war and gathering jews near the eastern front.
>(some talk about swimming pools and some other luxuries at the camps that would fit here)
>war needs more resources
>have plenty idle workers near the front so might as well put them into production
>war turns into shitshow
>supply lines are bombed (too bad they aren't just for germans)
>camps have to start rationing food and of course prisoners are secondary importance compared to guards.
>people are dying and crematoriums are needed to burn bodies and mass graves are dug (everyone knows corpses spread diseases)
>frontlines are backing up, all means of production are transferred elsewhere not to give them to enemies.
>camps are liberated and thousands of starving and dead get everyones imagination running
only reasons for executions i could think would be for crimes committed or not wanting to give enemies more troops. You have to keep in mind that war didn't end when the first camps were liberated and when it's about survival you will cling onto the last straw of hope.
Ther's literally no connection between bolchevism, and being Jews, people just want to get along, uniting the people under a common creed or a commond identity. Mussolini undestand that, and he united the poeple under the fascist movment, he even had some of his closet party allies being jews But muh Hitler decided to focus on his "Aryan race" and blamed the jews for the german crysis. uncle A was both a terrible politician and a great speaker
...
Also forgot to mention that whereas Hitler had no respect for the German kaiser or any monarchical/aristocratic traditions, Franco actually reinstated the Spanish monarchy upon his death.
The proper question to ask would be this:
"I am not a Jew, so why should I care if the Holocaust was real or not?"
And that's it. Who cares? This misguided Anglo-Saxon meddling is burdensome.
>Ther's literally no connection between bolchevism, and being Jews
The entire bolshevik movement was primarily Jews, like Trotsky for instance. Just look up wikipedia of all places. This is commonly known.
Because not only Jews were killed in the holocaust you dunce
Trotsky got icepick'd and his supporters gulaged and Stalin hated Jews
It's 5.1 - 5.5 million per Raul Hilberg, whom is considered by most scholars to be the supreme expert on the subject.
> Why isn't everyone a sociopath with no sense of empathy like me?
Yeah, Stalin was the end of their control. That doesn't mean that Jewish bolshevism didn't exist.
> "Unbiased truth"
> Post meme
> "Hitler seems like"
> "I dont know if Hitler"
You definitly lack methodology, you small little turd.
So you are saying it did exist, but had no impact whatsoever in Bolshevism itself, then what's the point then?
Anyone have the info-graph debunking the myth of 'Jewish Bolshevism'?
Mehmet pls did you just ask why some specific numbers don't match up while at the same time trying to argue that non of the numbers from said era are accurate?
Yeah hitler and franco had an equally strong commie opponent.
Source: your ass
>There are countless cases such as Treblinka where claims of purposeful genocide have been proven impossible with the use of physics and experimentation.
All of which have been debunked time and time again.
>(some talk about swimming pools and some other luxuries at the camps that would fit here)
there is less a question that these things existed and more a question of who got to use them. To understand, you need to do some research on what complex prisoner hierarchy the Auschwitz camp system (over 100,000 prisoners at a time) had.
At the bottom of the pyramid you had Jewish prisoners who were being worked to death or gassed upon arrival if they were too young, too old or crippled / diseased.
Slightly above, you had the Sonderkommando, Jews who were tasked in clearing the bodies of their fellow Jews from the gas chambers, searching their cavities for valuables, removing gold teeth, and then cremating them in the crematory above. The SK were awarded small trinkets like a pack of cigarettes or extra rations if they performed well, but they were shot after a couple of months when they were cycled out of rotation due to being witnesses to genocide. A bit above them were the Kapos and Blockälteste.
You had Polish and other Slavic prisoners, who were treated better. Then you had German prisoners (traitors to the regime like communists, anti-regime intellectuals, homosexuals, people trying to defect to the enemy and so on), and finally you had a few Allied prisoners, like British POWs who were the ones who ended up playing football.
And one colossal thing you need to realize is that most of the amenities of Auschwitz (swimming pool, whorehouse, post office, theatre, etc) were located in the comparatively tiny Auschwitz I Stammlager, which is where only up to 10% of the over 100,000 prisoners could be interned at a time, while the green houses and stables were located in even more remote sub camps.
Ergo: An estimated 90% of Auschwitz prisoners never got to see these facilities, and even fewer got to partake in them. These are of course, the details holocaust deniers do NOT tell you.
>supply lines are bombed (too bad they aren't just for germans)
Does not explain the 1.3 million Jews who were executed by Einzatsgruppen units outside of the camps.
>>camps have to start rationing food and of course prisoners are secondary importance compared to guards.
When the Allies reached the Nazi death camps in Germany, they found the SS personnel well-fed and well-dressed, and the local population was often not undergoing serious hardship, relatively speaking. (On the other hand, the German population in the big cities did suffer a lot.) This is clearly attested to in the film footage of the liberation of the camps, where one can see the people in the nearby towns and villages, which the American soldiers brought over to the camps so they can witness what happened. None of them are starved.
There is also a famous photograph of some plump SS women being captured at Bergen-Belsen. Tens of thousands of prisoners starved at Belsen. If you've seen a film of emaciated corpses being bulldozed into mass graves, it was probably taken at Belsen. The contrast to the well-fed SS women is quite remarkable. Scenes from the liberation of Bergen-Belsen demonstrate this beyond question.
At the Belsen camp, hundreds of tons of food were found locked up, just a few miles away from where tens of thousands starved to death.
Also, hardly any of the Allied prisoners from Western nations starved to death; there were people that the Nazis wanted to keep alive, and there were people they preferred dead. A great number of Soviet POW's died -- over three million -- for this reason.
bergenbelsen.co.uk
HMM HITLER WAS A RACIST.. Your grandparents are probably racist because back then when sciense was more limited and africans still lived in hutts made of shit the only logical conclusion with the information they had was that they were inferior to europeans.
Thumbnail says what hitler thought about the polish.
USA abused ethnic minorities until 50 years ago and they still face unfair difficulties.
Hitler was racist. GOT HEEEEEM!!!
Churchills and world jewry led to 30 million people dying not hitler. Hitler asked for peace a million fucking times even when he had the upperhand.
>We shall adhere to it unconditionally
What did he mean by this?
>Thumbnail says what hitler thought about the polish.
He broke the non-aggression pact, invaded Poland, and murdered 5 million Polish citizens over the course of the occupation.
>USA abused ethnic minorities until 50 years ago and they still face unfair difficulties.
Nice whataboutism.
>Churchills and world jewry led to 30 million people dying not hitler.
Churchill wasn't even in power when Hitler invaded Poland, you autist. Chamberlain had attempted to appease Hitler's territorial ambitions to prevent another world war.
>Hitler asked for peace a million fucking times even when he had the upperhand.
Hitler's peace offers were not worth the paper they were written on. What did Stalin get for trusting Hitler?
If he like the Polish so much why he murdered their intelligentsia, enslaved millions of Poles, and destroyed Warsaw?
I fucking love this image
>false flags attack your own radio post for casus belli
>it's da kike i tell you
You people are aware that 12 million people were killed in the holocaust right?
it's 12 million if holocaust means plus non kikes
Why shouldnt it?
It's 5-6 million Jews, 100.000 Roma/Sinti and few thousand homosexuals. The term Holocaust really shouldn't be used to other victims of Nazi crimes.
kikes are milking for what its worth
i don't really blame em for it
Where does this Hugo Boss meme come from? He did not design Nazi uniforms, his company just produced some of them, using slave labor I might add
it's a meme trying to say the n*zis were Veeky Forumsschionable and most people equate Hugo Boss with designer suits even though it's mostly dreck design nowadays
>You are assuming that through translation and linguistic changes over the past 75 years, "exterminate" holds the same connotation in modern English as it does old German.
German hasn't changed very much since then. Back then it had the exact same meaning as today. Why don't you look up the Posener Speech in it's original (although I doubt you being able to speak a word of German, besides some mispronounciation of Schutzstaffel), you'll see very clearly that Himmler means ausrotten/Ausrottung in the meaning of eradicate/exterminate, he talks about how everyone likes to speak about "die Ausrottung des jüdischen Volkes", but noone has ever seen piles of bodies or knows what it really means to actually do it.
In case you still don't believe me:
Ausrotten, verb. regul. aét. mit der Wurzel ausreisen. 1. Eigentlich. Einen Baum, einen Wald ausrotten, im Forstwesen ausstocken. 2. In weiterer und figürlicher Bedeutung, eine Sache ihrer ganzen Art nach vertilgen. Das Unkraut ausrotten. Das Ungeziefer ausrotten. Böses Gesindel ausrotten. Dle Laster ausrotten.
from:
"Versuch eines vollständigen grammatisch-kritischen Wörterbuches der Hochdeutschen Mundart mit beständiger Vergleichung der übrigen Mundarten, Volume 1"
Bernhard Christoph Breitkopf, 1774
>Protection Squad Man