Will a Day of the Rope every come to the last remaining "Communist" regimes? (China, Vietnam, North Korea, Laos...

Because they have food now and no one wants to die fighting their government when things are good.

>Surely in the age of the internet the citizens of these countries must realize how ridiculous and embarrassing it is?

>Mom, how dare they have a government that I dislike for a purely nonsensical reason!

Surely, you are the one embarrassing.

China is one of the most legitimate governments in the world, simply because it functions well.
The opposite is true. The generations that lived through the Cult. revolution are less likely to revere Mao. The younger generations more so. Sourse: every Chinese student I talked about politics did. Some elderly didn't

Let me tell you something kid, if anything, the west will start copying China and western states will involve themselves more in their economies in order to keep up with china.

>why do countries have governments i dont agree with

This may come as some surprise but were you to leave your room and walk around in the real world for a bit you might realize that not everyone thinks the same way you do

Sure, but they still have the man who ruined their country on their money. It's an affront to decency.

The "Communist" facade is made all the more galling by the extreme nepotism and greed of the Communist ruling families / nobility (applies to all these countries). The cognitive dissonance needed to make any sense of it must be crippling.

The Vietnamese government is a joke. Utterly inept, incredibly corrupt. Just imagine being China's China.

t. I live in Vietnam.

Its quite simple actually

Its basically the same reason americans abide a horrifically corrupt, nepostistic amd unconstrained government with no respect for the constitution

>China is one of the most legitimate governments in the world, simply because it functions well.

China has a GDP-per-capita of $8k (not to mention horrible pollution, lack of basic freedoms...).

Japan has a GDP p.c. of $40k (much more evenly distributed). South Korea $28k. Taiwan $32k.

China is only a "success" today in comparison to how low it was brought under the Communists (when millions STARVED: just consider how bad you have to be at running a country that millions of people starve to death)

If we still have people like Andrew Jackson on our money we don't have much room to talk either.

>what is historical materialism?
Capitalism will create the material conditions for communism. Communism will evolve from capitalism after the tensions between the bourgeoisie and proletariat become too great. And there isn't shit you can do about it, fucko.

You just can't see it in the West because you're a myopic ignoramus and the owners of the means of production have convinced the proles in the West that liberalism is the key. Little do people realise that the way of life enjoyed in the West is a result of the third world working for literally nothing per day and manufacturing all the shit we use. But they're realising this too, that's why they're flooding Europe and that's why Mexicans have been flooding the US. There will come a point when either the US/EU system cannot support any more migrants and it will collapse, or they will close borders and trigger WWIII.

Soon it will either be fully automated gay space communism or a tribal existence with militias controlling areas and a fucking mad max world. I don't know about you but I choose communism.

>The only nation in the world that hasn't embraced some amount of capitalism yet is North Korea.

Even North Korea has a form of state capitalism. The state even makes Paracetamol.

>Capitalism will create the material conditions for communism

Highly unlikely, because even automation won't create a world without scarcity.

>using nominal gdp and not ppp

Pleb tier

So what happens as the growth starts to petter out and the society ages. China 20-30 years down the line will be stuck on the low-end of middle-income, with a crumbling infrastructure and shrinking population (basically, an over-populated Russia). At some point people will grow resentful of the 'Maoist Dynasty' that's left China forever a second-rate country.

What does Japan has to do with China? Compare it with someone in where comparison makes sense, like India or Russia.

>China is only a "success" today in comparison to how low it was brought under the Communists
Chinese GDP grew around 10 points during Mao, with the exception of late 50s crisis.
>just consider how bad you have to be at running a country that millions of people starve to death
There will always be a risk of hunger, unless you have a mechanized agriculture. Precommunist China had a major hunger every 10 years.

>trump wants government owned 5g network

we china nao

>the man who ruined their country
Oh, China was better off ruled by warlords, Japan, and sometimes the horrifyingly corrupt KMT (which was a socialist party btw)?

>What does Japan has to do with China? Compare it with someone in where comparison makes sense, like India or Russia.

Again, those are only 'the competition' because those countries also had dumb leftist governments. China's the fastest runner at the Special Olympics.

In my country the state controls the access to the internet but leases it to private companies, which works fine, because it means even bumfuck nowhereville has access to cheap internet.

Obviously the KMT were much more competent at running a country, see: Taiwan.

The case for Communist China's failure is all the more clear because it has a twin that was actually successful (the same is of course true of North Korea).

How does the PRC government justify the disparity with Taiwan? (and Hong Kong?) They seem like prima facie evidence of the Communist's ineptitude.

>implying they care whether other people judge them as competent or not as long as they stay in power

Can you demonstrate any indications that chinas growth will peter out in 20-30 years? I think not
Theyre courrently the manufacturing hub of the world and are slowly but surely moving up the value chain and toward higher quality products. Also theyre making significan efforts to clean up their environment.

And why the fuck would their infrastructure be crumbling in 20 years? Theyve got god damn commercially operating maglev railways

They do have a demographic problem but so does japan and you dont see a revolution there

Also the government is obviously not maoist and not particularly more nepotistic than any western democracy

It seems to me like your making these points to try and reinforce some kind of worlview rather than based on any kind of understanding

Wrong. Totalitarian AI dictatorship is inevitable kiddo, not your childish communist ideology.

If the kmt is so competent why did they lose the civil war?

...

It's the people in these countries who must surely be judging them as failures.

I'm legit curious what the official party line is in China on why the PRC is so much poorer than the ROC. Or do they simply deny the reality? (as North Korea does, where the official line seems to be that South Koreans are starving slaves)

>i think china is a failure therefore everyone in china agrees with me

>I'm legit curious what the official party line is in China on why the PRC is so much poorer than the ROC

They don't have any official party line on it because they don't consider the ROC a separate entity from mainland China. They consider it an occupied part of the PRC by a rogue band of class traitors.

There is no "official party line", and there isn't much difference between Taiwan and most developed Chinese provinces, like the bordering Guangdong.

I make the assumption on a number of grounds:
>The "middle income trap" seems very difficult to escape.
>China's growth has been steadily slowing for years (even while boosted by cheap/easy credit) so the trend seems likely to continue
>China is much less prepared, socially and economically, to deal with an aging society than a country like Japan
>buildings/infrastructure in China is of notoriously low quality, nor is maintenance carried out
>low-end manufacturing will continue to move to cheaper countries in South Asia and Africa, yet China hasn't built up the brands and IP developed countries have to stay part of the value chain

Taiwan was propped up by the US. The KMT failed at running China.

So how do they explain all the investment coming from these rich "rebels"? Surely mainland Chinese people know that Taiwan is a rich democracy?

this desu

the pax Asia is coming, and there's nothing we can do about it

the election of Trump was one of America's death throes

Guangdong has a gdp-per-capita 1/3 that of Taiwan.

>Surely mainland Chinese people know that Taiwan is a rich democracy?

Sure they do. North Koreans probably know this about South Korea too. But they probably think their country is superior anyway.

8 years of total war against a regional superpower goes a long way in completely exhausting a country

>It's totally bizarre to think that the party regimes that utterly destroyed all of these countries' economies live on well into the 21st century. That their flags and official symbols are those of a totally discredited (second- or third-hand) ideology, and that the dictators who killed millions of their own citizens and set their countries back a century of development are still officially venerated.
goebbels tier horseshit

Western hubris.
Democracy is where it all went wrong.

Outside of "muh freedoms" what's wrong with Chinese government?
They are making their country the biggest economic powerhouse yet again except there won't be western invasion like in 19 century and they will probably dominate more and more of Africa soon because they dont fall for some meme moral stuff and are pragmatic as fuck.

What does this flag say about China other than "we just stole it from the Soviet Union"?

What does this flag say about Vietnam, except that "we stole it from the Chinese, who stole it from the Soviets"... plus the obvious "we're Communists" when of course they are in name only.

The communists fought the japs aswell

East Germany looked like a stable regime until one day it wasn't. In the end nobody outside of the leadership morned it.

These regimes - like all dictatorships - are extremely brittle. They appear immovable and inviolable just up until the moment they shatter completely.

Even in just the last few years looks what happened to Syria, Libya, Tunisia, Zimbabwe, Egypt....

Bad example. Stability of DDR and other satelites was dependent on USSR.

barely, and even then that was mostly outside their own territory.

Vietnam and Cuba didn't destroy their countries' economies or kill millions of people.

The fuck does that have to do with capitalism lmao

>"middle income trap"
True but thats where state planning of large sectors of the economy can come it. Also china is investing in other countries, especiall africa, a lot so that when manufacturing does start to move they still make money
>growth has been steadily slowing for years
Yeah but its also been on aseries of crazy up dowm trends see
It was declining for half the 90s and came back in force, theres no reason to assume the current decline will be premanent
>China is much less prepared, socially and economically, to deal with an aging society
This is a pretty abstract point, what even constirutes 'preparedness for an aging population'?
>buildings/infrastructure in China is of notoriously low quality, nor is maintenance carried out
I dont doubt that this true in comparison to, say, western europe, but i dont really see this become a massive econmic problem except when earthquakes happen. Also what makes you think maintainance isnt being carried out?
>low-end manufacturing will continue to move to cheaper countries in South Asia and Africa, yet China hasn't built up the brands and IP developed countries have to stay part of the value chain
There fucking working towards it ill tell you that. Not to memtion they have strangleholds on many indusdries such as heavy metals and also that brands like mercedes manufacture there. Also chinese brands are much much more popular outside of europe and north america. Theyre not high quality but its improving fucking fast.

I think my main point thougn is that the chinese reigme has an unprecedented ability to plan in the long terme. They are openly tackling many of their econmic problems and shifting towards stable rather than explosive growth.

Granted though, if there is an econmic meltdown we will see really how good the regieme is at managing the economy.

The USSR itself of course collapsed, as did fully independent Communist regimes like Yugoslavia and Albania.

China was a mess before Mao.

>China was a mess after nearly a decade of total war which left most of eastern china in ruins
gee i wonder why

Yugoslavias a bad example. They were surviving by playing the superpowers off one another. But when one disappeard they lost the ability to do this and also they made some colossal screwups in financial regulations that caused the sconomic crisis

Even before WWII

KMT China was doing fine before WW2. The regime was popular, China was industrialising slowly but surely (and without the autistic measures Mao employed) and famines were on their way to eradication. The Nanjing government exerted more and more influence over the warlords. By the mid-30s China was actually progressing really well.

>the state owns companies, produces goods, and sells them in a market
>not capitalism

You are an idiot.

The Vietnam War (and spin-off wars) killed literally millions (there would have been no war without Communists trying to and eventually succeeding in taking over the country). Then millions more fled when the communists took over and set about destroying what was left of the economy (after executing or 'reeducating' the vile capitalists they found).

Vietnam remains a poor country, and was among the hand-full of poorest in the world before they started dispensing with actual communism.

Cuba was the most developed country in the Caribbean and well positioned (vis proximity) to take advantage of the US market. Now it's a country where doctors drive taxis for tourists to supplement their $25 monthly pay.

*revisionism intensifies*
There were famines and the KMT was very corrupt.

Yeah they indusdrialized a bunch but the regime was still horriffically corrupt from the top all the way down and the conditions of the urban poor were victorian britian tier, possibly worse

Taiwan claims to not be Chinese though.
Pathetic argument.

When USSR collapsed others followed like domino. Listing individual dominos like DDR, CSLA or PRL makes no sense.

Yugoslavia and Albania were states dependent on their rulers, when they died and left no proper heirs the states were doomed.

>what even constirutes 'preparedness for an aging population'

Being rich enough, and honest enough, to fund and maintain an efficient welfare state.

>the vietnam war was vietnams fault

>there would have been no war without Communists trying to and eventually succeeding in taking over the country
So fighting for independence is "taking over the country?"
>Cuba was the most developed country in the Caribbean
b8

>le communist in Vietnam are okay because I think they are anti-China

1. You are an idiot
2. The VCP is relatively pro-China in Vietnam.

I mean, no. Why the fuck you think people joined Mao in droves.

I think its pretty undeniable that china has damn good welafre state considering the amount of people they have to provide for and the amount of momey they have to do it with

Taiwan is culturally very different from China

China was a shithole before, during, and after Mao.

Only sane poster ITT

>>close the borders to mexico and ww3 happens
Wow man and here I thought commies couldn't get anymore retarded.

Oh and what actually happens when things get bad for the people lower on the economic latter is the government bribes them off with various services and transfer payments. And that is something you commie dipshits can't do a single fucking thing about, fucko.

India and China are comparable. Japan was already an industrialized nation before Mao was even born.

>everything i don't like is revisionism
k senpai
famines did happen in the late twenties/early thirties, but by the mid-thirties they were well on their way towards stopping them.
Corruption was bad, yes, but still manageable. I wouldn't say it was any worse than the corruption in China nowadays.
>and the conditions of the urban poor were victorian britian tier, possibly worse
this happens in literally every country that industrialises.

Yet somehow corrupt capitalistic dictatorships almost invariably lead to development and democracy.

What's spooky about China (and Vietnam to a lesser extent) is that since adopting the policies of a capitalist dictatorship they've grown the economy, yet democracy doesn't seem on the horizon. But then I'm not sure it looked to be in Taiwan or South Korea either before it arrived.

The Vietnam War was a civil war, with outside power supporting their sides. In the end the wrong side won, but without Ho and the Communists there wouldn't have been a civil war to begin with.

>Taiwan is better in every conceivable way
No, you are dumb. It used to be better but now it's not(partially thanks to America). You have no idea wtf you're talking about, and I bet you're not Chinese(nor Taiwanese), just some butthurt wh*teloid Amerilard. Whereas I'm a Taiwanese who lives here.

The filthy forced faggot marriage (spreading from America like a cancer) along is enough to make me want CCP to overthrough present regime, not to mention all those rampant anti-chinese revisionism. I also will not hesitate to support them if they decide to nuke US and Canada tomorrow. I ABSOLUTELY HATE YOU, YOU FUCKING GENDER-FLUID AMERICUNTS!

An island of 20 million with a far higher GDP per capita in 1949 versus mainland China with 1.4 billion illiterate farmers.

Very comparable.

How about Taiwan and South Korea?

>>latter
ladder
Fixed.

They point out that the comparable coastal provinces, like Shanghai, of China have a similar HDI as the RoC.

Why are you comparing 20 million to 1.4 billion again?

[Citations needed]

The CCP lost a higher per entage of troops than the RoC during WW2.

shut the fuck up Trot nigger

>without Ho and the Communists there wouldn't have been a civil war to begin with.
Nigga are you high

Without ho and the communists vietnam would still be a french colony. They should have run the whole country since they were the ones who freed it from colonialism. South vietnam aas obviously a puppet state of the west from literally day and this was realized by everyone involved including the south vietnamese government and western powers.

If the west had just let ho chi minh rule the whole country there would have been no war and probably ho wouldnt have really been that communists since he would need mountains of aid from china and the ussr.

>KMT China was doing fine before WW2.

Umm getting invaded, raped, and losing three capitals over the previous two years? Is that “fine”?

>this happens in literally every country that industrialises.
So really stalin sending all those people to the gulag was just a natural part of indusdrialization?

South Korea handles that issue by cooking its senior citizens. Why not China?

Nothing Trot about it, it's the truth. The North Korean state acts like a private company.

>China
Communism didn't work, let's allow capitalism but we should be still on the government and owning these companies
>Vietnam
Communism China style didn't work, Russia Style didn't either, let's allow capitalism but the military should be on the government and running these companies.
>North Korea
Communism didn't work, but Juche allows me to have all these slaves
>Laos
Communism didn't work, but we are Vietnam bitches so let's follow
>Cuba
Communism didn't work, as an economic system. But it allows me to continue on power because of embargo and tourism

>military losses equals civilian, infrastructural, and economic losses

Thats a Trot claim

I mean, dont really disagree with any of your post except replace invariably with sometimes.

And isnt modern china basically exactly that? A corrupt dictatorship using capitlaist force to develop its economy?