What the fuck happened to Ukraine after 1991? It's a complete shithole right now...

Ukraine should be Germany of Eastern Europe by its potential, which you already noted.

What happened? Unlike Germans, Ukrainians simply could not deal with corruption, oligarchs fucking their country in every way.

It is really not the fault of Jews or Russians or Americans or EU but Ukraine itself.

Yeah, not that Russia is any better. Most of its rich people are Jews, HIV rates are insane.

This thread is not about Russia though.

>whataboutism

No, but posting those pictures is simply retarded. Change flags and symbols and Russia is the same. Russian economy is smaller than Italy.

Whole Eastern Slavic countries are a mess today. Seeing them argue which is worse is beyond sad.

See,

At least Russia had and still has great impact on global politics, history, science, art etc. You cannot say the same about the Ukraine.
The Ukraine never existed prior to 1991. Their entire nationality was invented by Austrians back in the XIX century to combat Poles occupying all government positions in Galicia.
>and no, me typing the Ukraine is not a typo or bad english. It's literally what they are. The word means "borderland" in both russian and polish. Thus the Ukraine.

anybody pretty, smart, or inventive has already fled Ukraine

Lol, not even nearly the same. Ukraine has quality of life 3 times lower than Russia and Russian quality of life is meh-to-shit tier depending on the region. Ukraine is literal Africa of Europe.
And again, this thread is about Ukraine, don't bring Russia into it just to feel better, mr. Cockhol.

You a Slavic person?

Russia is indeed more relevant but not for long. Demographic wise, they are just as fucked as Ukraine, except Muslims are flooding Russia. Russian economy is running on rich resources from Siberia, that is one thing saving Russia from bankruptcy.

Ukrainian language is a real thing, was it not forbidden by Russian Tzars? Seems like they were trying to destroy identity of Ukraine.

I seriously doubt that the Austrians were the ones who invented Ukrainianism to counter the Poles given that Poles were a privileged minority in the Empire and the Hapsburgs had by far the best treatment and relations to the Poles of all of the powers which partitioned Poland...

Ukraine is poorer because they do not have Siberia like Russia does. That is all.

Am Croat, not Ukranian.

They can't really blame communism since they were the most heavly developed part of the union

And that explains why they fucked up everything? Poland doesn't have Siberia either. Even fucking Belarus is doing better. Literal fucking soviet republic in all but name.

Poland got economic help from EU, Belarus from Russia.

I agree, Ukraine has become African shit hole nation, but let us not really be that naive and say inventing Ukranian identity is a reason for that.

I didn't say a thing about Ukrainian identity, user.
Also, it seems as if countries manage to develop their economies through good diplomacy with their neighbours and economic agreements, but Ukraine failed at that completely .

Agreed, although I understand Ukranian desire to get closer to EU, I do think they made a huge geopolitical mistake.

EU does not want them and now Russia does not want them.

EU help is a meme, we grew with or without it
You could say that we wouldn't be able to keep our rate without EU funding development of infrastructure, but that's it

Catholic Slavbro, let us not delude ourselves. EU did help Poland, that is a fact. Sure, you would grow even without it, but not so fast.

EU is not interested in Ukraine, never was.

Oh yes, the EU "help". You do realise all that money amounts to barely 2% of polish GDP right? And it all trickles down back to the germans anyway.

So Germany is once again trying to fuck with you?
Eternal Kraut and Ivan once again.

America is only true ally for us Catholic Slavs.

Completely agree with you here, user.

>Poles were a privileged minority

Not Poles, nobles. And nobles in Galicia tended to be Polish and polonized. A Polish peasant was just as fucked as an Ukrainian one. Save for 1846 of course, when the Austrian authorities inspired the mass peasant massacres of nobles, in order to show those nobles their place.

It's truly beyond retarded to claim that Ukrainian identity was manufactured. It wasn't. It is true however that both Russia and Austria used and encouraged Ukrainian nationalism to their own needs, while brutally suppressing it when it was not needed.

Poles today remember mostly that Russia and Austria used Ukrainian identity and nationalism to combat the Polish influence and language in Ukraine proper and Galicia. Consequently, they often see Ukrainians as something artificial, created to root out Polish culture from the masses. Ukrainian on the other hand remember only the suppression part. Consequently they see themselves as victims of Russians, Austrians AND Poles.

>Poland got economic help from EU, Belarus from Russia.

Look at growth graph before Polish ascension into the EU.

Ukranian industry was reliant on the russian market both for the raw materials to fuel their factories and to sell their finished goods. When they split with Russia there was no one to sell their products too and they had no cheap supplies to subsidize with, so everything rotted away. Now they've put the final nail in the coffin, eastern european flee to Russia to get work, western ukranians flee to Europe to get work, while the entire economy crashes and burns. It has become a cesspool that no one wants to touch with a ten feet pole.

Belarus is much better than Rushka and Ukrwanda.

That's fundamentally not true.

Stupid proles in Europe often don't know where Ukraine is. They are naturally hostile to letting anyone in, because they see everything in terms of migrant and money-sucking. However there are many wiser heads, especially among ruling elites, who see this differently. They see it as part of a bigger project, in which Europe will be a force to reckoned with and able to stand on its own. Ukraine's immense assets, no matter how neglected today, would still be of great advantage to that project. From Europe's point of view it is therefore more than beneficial to let Ukraine in and invest in it.

It is also beyond stupid to think that Russia does not want Ukraine. Quite to the contrary. Russia would love to gobble up Ukraine for so many reasons. The problem is, Russia currently is too weak to swallow and digest Ukraine without dropping dead. Russia barely manages it's own budget and has massive demographic and economic issues. It is simply to weak to hold onto entire Ukraine, where much of the population hates Russia guts and where there are equally difficult or even greater demographic and economic issues. Russia therefore thinks that if she can't have Ukraine, no one can. That's why they generated those now-frozen conflicts. It order to discourage anyone from getting involved in Ukraine. That's why also Russia's peace proposal is completely unacceptable to Ukraine. Russia demands that Ukraine federalizes with regions having the power to veto international treaties. This is not even a concealed attempt to prevent any international aliment of Ukraine.

It's sad, that people still do not understand that economy IS NOT a zero-sum grade. Money flows and benefits everyone. Infrastructure improves and generates income, several levels of corporate chain earns money. And even those German companies who "eventually" get money still have subcontractors and suppliers, often from Poland and other Central European counties.

Having jewish government would be quite a improvement from having ukrainians in charge of leading their country

>What happened? Unlike Germans, Ukrainians simply could not deal with corruption, oligarchs fucking their country in every way.
comparing them to germany is pretty fucking stupid mate
Western Germany had to invest MILLIONS into east for them to catch up. And they are still behind.

>IT'S DA EU MONEY
Try again. FYI we joined the EU in 2004.

>Russia is the same
Sure thing, Ukrainian.

Poland should honestly thank Russia without whom they would never experience this current boom.

Explain.

Without communism Poland would not be able to enjoy this nice and steep growth curve.

Pretty poor bait.

>being this thankless

Yawn

>arguing with polish people

>communist Poland is poorer than Ukraine
>capitalist Poland is almost 4 times richer than Ukraine
>braise gommunizm

Much like Veeky Forums, they thought that democracy, regulating the private sector, a functioning judicial system and such were meme ideas, so they either didn't implement them or did it very poorly. Ukraine is basically the Veeky Forums utopia, a near-failed state run by gangsters. Which is supposedly what commie Ukraine was, fancy that.

Whole of Russia and Ukraine will be so much empty fertile land without population.

Precisely where hundreds of millions of climate refugees will be resettled.

>millions of climate refugees will be resettled
Dream on, Pedro

see >dependent of exports to Russia
>subsidies here and there
>"developed" but even then they flee to western countries
tl;dr: communism

Harsh reality, user.

Have you seen fertility rates in those countries? Dead and dying. When hundreds of millions of Africans and others start surging into Europe during 21. century, Eastern Europe will be quite empty.

This is your future, whitey.

This is truly some post-apocalyptic stuff.

Slavs aren't cucked like western Europeans who just let them in. They'll shoot them like dogs at the border.

Fuckwit, I am Slav. Have you seen our demographic statistics?

I don't care you Marxist cuck. We'll nuke the nogs if we have to.

Not a communist myself but I can at least read demographic reports, can you? Do Slavic countries have 2.1 fertility rate?

>Slavs aren't cucked like western Europeans who just let them in. They'll shoot them like dogs at the border.

Dude, girls literally jump on dark chads all over here.

Only takes one guy to push a button.

>over here
Nice LARPing Nigel.

I am Polish, you idiot.

Good thing our foreign policy isn't dictated by girls then

Sure you are

>arguing with western retards
Don't bother, they think that we are living in some kind of utopia just because we don't have black people in our countries

That doesn't excuse them from being the only post-communist country that hasn't grown at all since 1991

that's because russia has endless supply of natural resources. just look at it's exports, like 80% is oil/gas. ukraine is basically russia that has no oil.

desu Ukraine has a sea access, shitload of coal reseves, fantastic soil for agriculture. Why is it significantly poorer than Hungary, Slovakia or Czechia, landlocked countries with literally no resources? And don't give the muh EU shit, see

how much of Ukraine's poverty is due to mismanagement of its economy by American jew advisors in 91' and after

no foreign investments

Bosnia is Serbian land you fucking traitor.

>if EE countries get better it must be because of EU, foreigners, or Soviet communism (kek)
>thry can't possibly improve on their own

>Russians come and destroy most of your country in civil war
>Russians starve half your population to death
>Nazis have the other half of your population shot or raped
>Have entire population forced into Chernobyl-tier inhumane industry by Russian autists
>Russia's retarded system collapses
>People stop wanting to die in rusty factories and mines
>Shitty communist economy colllapses
>Russia and Europe then continually fund rebels within your country
Gee I wonder

So are you making a positive argument they did improve on their own without any outside influences whatsoever based on nothing but a claim that such a thing is possible? Or are you just making retarded greentext shitposts with no logical coherence?

What

Yes, that's what I thought.

Jew

Ahh, I see, I guess if you are Israeli English is probably a second language to you.

>be Poland
>World War One happens on your territory bringing ruin
>Immidiately after regaining independence you have to fight chimping out hohols and then major soviet invasion, nearly losing your capital city, still win somehow even though germans and czechs try to fuck you in the ass and lithuanians let soviet troops through their territory
>5 years later enter into a trade war with germany
>In 1939 both Soviets and Nazis go on a literal genocidal campaign, killing people, forcibly resettling populace, killing off your intelligentsia etc.
>The front passes through your territory twice
>Western "allies" sell you to Stalin, ensuring your enslavement to communism for 45 years to come
>In 1991 finally get rid of the last soviet influence, same year Ukraine gains independence for the first time in history
>Have 14 million less people than Ukraine, Ukraine has most fertile lands in the world, huge post-soviet industry, nukes
>Still turn 50 times better than Ukraine

explain this

Can confirm. UAfag here.
If you ain’t got the bribe, you ain’t get shit.
Actually, there are a LOT of Jews here. Not the sole problem, but their bribes and laundering definitely fuck up the economy and prices.
Never heard of HIV going crazy but you’re right about the Jewfags.
Depends what part of Ukraine you wanna call Africa. West Ukraine is pretty nice actually, we call it the “Rich Side” (that’s Lviv, Chernivtsi, etc)
Of course they try destroying Ukrainian identity. Uniting under one culture is easier than catering to 20.
Yeah, I can tell you’re Croat because you’re fucking retarded.

Because work ethic is shit here. So nobody wants to tap into the shit.

but I never claimed they can't on their own
I don't get why you people get so defensive

Jews are the most intelligent and productive people in Ukraine. Jews built 99% of anything valuable in Ukraine.

You ethnic Ukranians are known in world for one thing only, your women are cheap and hot prostitutes.

>Jews are the most intelligent and productive
kek.
Our women would never fuck a dumbass like you. We all hate Jews over there.

Bugger off kike

West side is rich? Holy shit, western ukrainians flood Prague in search of work and are literal barbarian-tier. If that is your rich part I shudder to even imagine poor ones.

Sure thing, that is why Ukranian prostitutes litter Tel Aviv. That is why our financial institutions control your country.

Like this map shows, most of modern Ukraine would not exist if it were not for the mercy we Jews took upon your people. Show some gratitude.

Like I said, it is extremely wealthy because of bribes.

You faggoty Jews do nothing but rip the money out of my pockets lmao.

Maybe you shouldn't have so many holes in your pockets, goy. Take some personal responsibility.

You should check out upon whom Ukrainians are building their national identity.
On one hand we have Bohdan Khmielnitsky, a cossack leader who sold his own people into tatar slavery to pay for military assistance and then sold his own "country" to the russians, and we all know how that ended for the cossacks.
On the other hand there is OUN/UPA. Organisations responsible for the slaughter of countless women and children. Nowdays questioning the legitimacy and ways of these organisations while in Ukraine will land you in prison.
Have a watch:
youtube.com/watch?v=v6wlrvMY0UA
>These are the national heroes of Ukraine.

polish pope gave his blessings
everything is lost since his holiness is dead

>explain this

>Literally half your population leaves for Western Europe
>Brings billions in remittances and German guiltbux
>Still a giant shithole except for Warsaw

Based jew tells it like it is.

Bad joke is bad

>EU gibs and people's salaries equal 100% of polish economy

It's really shitty, third world tier.
I really don't know what happened :(

...

>>Still a giant shithole except for Warsaw
nah that's not true anymore, besides Warsaw it's not so great even by polish standards