I feel like this needs to be talked about because I am seeing lots of conflicting posts on this. This is kind of an interesting fork, because of the New York Agreement.
I'll make it simple for you: 80% of bitcoin mining power will be swtiching to the forked chain. This is unprecedented, if they really decide to do such a thing.
"The New York Agreement was signed by a large number of Bitcoin companies and by miners representing over 80% of Bitcoin’s hashpower. The signatories of the agreement accepted a compromise called SegWit2x. This plan would call for the near-immediate activation of SegWit, and would follow that with a hard fork in November to double the block size."
What does this mean if there are more miners on the forked chain?
>bitcoin >decentralized >80% of Bitcoin hashpower at one conference
hahahahhahahahahahahahahahahaha
Noah Phillips
It doesn't matter what that means, the only thing that matters is what is shilled, like what you're doing right now
Jonathan Young
What about Blocksteam?
Wyatt Nelson
ELI5: this
Connor Harris
I think the market will decide and when the market decides the hashing power will follow As you can see the futures trading value for s2x is .145 btc cryptonator.com/rates/BT2-BTC If 80% of the hashing power followed a token that's worth .145btc they would lose money, and chinese miners are greedy assholes
Michael Stewart
>What does this mean if there are more miners on the forked chain?
This is how Bitcoin decides on what rules it's actually going to follow. There's no single central entity that officially decides what rules Bitcoin will or won't follow. It's up to the network to decide.
And as nodes can be spammed in a sybil attack, the amount of hashpower behind a chain with a particular set of rules determines what Bitcoin is.
Carter Phillips
B-but muh blockstream m-muh core devs.
Jaxson Perez
That futures market has no depth and people will lose their tokens if 2x doesn't actually get created. No one is going to bet in a sketchy market like that.
Kevin Wilson
bitcoin designed an upgrade called segwit, and the majority of miners rejected it because they think it might threaten their profits of transactions fees. It was blocked for months until a movement was gaining traction called user activated softfork When this was happening a group of businesses and miners met and came to an "agreement" that they would softfork to segwit only if the blocksize increases to 2mb afterwards The NYA didn't have any of the core developers in attendance When this was going through bitcoin cash forked off and started their own big block non segwit chain segwit softfork went though and the signers of the NYA kept pushing for s2x hardfork Many core developers said they would quit if the bitcoin repo was replaced with a new repo with jeff garzik as the head, I think this repo is called btc1 and it's the main repo for s2x. Sometime in the 2nd week of november they plan on pushing a controversial hardfork without replay protection. If there was replay protection this wouldn't be a problem, but without it people who send coins on 1 chain could have their keys on the other chain compromised I belive there was an opt in replay protection developed on s2x that the legacy chain could follow, but this would require adding extra data by sending a small amount of satoshi to an address with its private key already known. It's a big clusterfuck with influential people trying to take control of the protocol development like I said in another post I think it will fail without replay protection and .145btc value
Adrian Williams
theres no such thing as development centralizaton. it costs nothing to fork and convince the community to move to a new client.
what you can't do is undo the complete and utter mining centralization that has been allowed to happen in china. what's killing bitcoin now is that, an until real mining competition appeats, bitcoin is under serious thread, as we can see from the attempted takeovers right now.
Lincoln Ross
yes it isn't a clear indicator you're right, but as far I know it's all we currently have to see what might happen
Cooper Stewart
Bitcoin being forked every fucking 2 weeks is what will kill it. Better stock up on those promising alts
Leo Martinez
who are these newcomers that think miners decide consensus?
consensus is fixed to the clients the users of the network run, you can't change it without getting everyone to update their software.
miners mine blocks under the consensus the users clients enforce, if they try to mine invalid blocks the users ignore the work done, and it's a waste of their money.
anyone trying to tell you otherwise is being wilfully ignorant or has been taken in by the chinks. it hasn't been 1 CPU = 1 vote for years, and without that the user's now have the power, not the miners.
Ryan Jones
>there's no such this as development centralization Meanwhile blockstream controls and regulates all contributions to "open source" bitcoin. Really makes you think. Complete retard astroturfing pajeets. One side profits from the network processing as many transactions as possible. The other profits off strangling bitcoin and it's users. I wonder which is better for bitcoin?
Cooper Wright
Yeah mining centralization is a big problem. It's why I bought some vertcoin months ago when I realized this issue. Even if bitcoin survives these shenanigans what happens if the miners are unhappy with tx fees after a couple halvenings and want to raise the block rewards which would make more than 21 million coins and change the inflation rate
Chase Lee
Even if blockstream is one of the 1st companies to implement payment channels it's still open source and anyone can run their own payment channel There are many startups developing LN, payment channels, etc. You have to realize when you raise the blocksize as a solution down the road nodes will become centralized
Jonathan Young
Game theory holds up on this. I trust the miners and hope they win. I don’t trust Chinks but they have a huge monetary incentive for Bitcoin to survive and have people do as many transactions as possible.
Blockstream has no such incentives. They could give a shit less about Bitcoin unless people are using off chain scaling that they own.
Chase Morgan
if bigger blocks are the solution then why not just support bitcoin cash if you really think blockstream is nefarious then get out of the segwit chain 1mb segwit 2mb segwit makes no difference in 2nd layer payment options
Cooper Watson
They've been centralized for the longest time, bitcoin incentives this. It's entirely based around the miner user relationship. What incentives the miner is the well being of the user and the network. The LN is the worst possible answer to both scaling and centralization. Due to LN favoring high liquidity nodes and the cost to run one limiting users to create one. You end up getting an even more centralized network that just finished gimping your onchain network and the miners, leaving you with no choice but to pay their high subscription fees. The other side of the coin is increased blocksize resulting in cheaper and faster transactions with a sacrifice of no raspberry pi nodes ;(. We've also started seeing third parties come into the mix releasing the hardware monopoly while also putting out better hardware in general. It just ends up coming down to cheap electricity.
Andrew Perez
You are a faggot nigger who should go do pic related.
Go back and circlejerk in the Bitcoin sub about how hot Luke Jr is and how much you would love guzzling his cum. You Blockstream faggots are the worst.
Joseph Bennett
>They've been centralized for the longest time, bitcoin incentives this. do you mean miners centralized or something else?
Yes I agree miners need to network to function properly to maintain profits.
Why is LN the worst possible answer? Isn't it optional to participate I have this vision that for bitcoin to scale for everyone we would need payment channels. Right now on chain transactions are still cheap but if everyone wants cheap on chain transaction the data required would be too much. So I see it as payment channel to use bitcoin everyday, and anything going on chain would be expensive and important. Somehow we need to figure out the proper balance to compensate miners while still offering cheap transactions. I think there will be many 2nd layer options that can compete with each other, not just a blockstream monopoly.
There's really a lot to think about and see what would be the best option. I see bitcoin cash as a big block testing ground and bitcoin as a segwit 2nd layer testing ground.
Carter Jones
Not bigger blocks that's for certain. Chink mining pools need to fuck off. Seriously. Bitcoin cash is the solution you claim everyone wants with your 2x attack but no one gives a fuck about it. Just admit 2x is about kikes wanting to assume control over the legacy chain.
Ian Reed
In your "game theory" are there 2nd layer payment channels on the s2x chain or would changing blocks from 1mb to 2mb change that? lol
Austin Roberts
Holy shit I'm going to have 4 Bitcoin forks
What if all 4 turn into 100b+ in the future? I'mma be rich
David Bell
I can't believe there are still so many retards here. History already taught us that bitcoin core is unmovable and nothing will replace it. It's literally 101 in trading and investment to not try to dictate the market but adapt to the market yourself, the fucking kikes will have no success in destroying core.
Oliver Reed
We can't let bitcoin die. Noone will give a shit about alts if bitcoin dies. You think the mainstream masses give a shit about shitcoins? No they don't. BTC is what apple branding is today. We will continue to get raped by the government and banks if BTC dies.
Henry Edwards
>Isn't it optional to participate If blockstream also let the blocksize increase over time yes. Which was what everyone was ready to do until blockstream stabbed them in the back once they got segwit. >Right now on chain transactions are still cheap but if everyone wants cheap on chain transaction the data required would be too much. The only reason it costs anything to transact is because you have to compete with others to get included on the block. >I think there will be many 2nd layer options that can compete with each other, not just a blockstream monopoly. Good luck passing that by blockstream.
The only other sidechains that will come around will be sold by blockstream to big orgs. This is proven Adam said it himself.
Josiah Watson
If blockstream is exploiting the users for profit we should see bitcoin cash rise I don't think they'll do that so I'll hold some bitcoins That's the great thing about all the different chains and consensus protocol, we can choose what we believe is most fair and put our money where our mouth is.
Adam Garcia
Blockstream and their supporters hope to win by having the ticker and enough dumb market money. Only way they survive this fork is if they fork off with an eda.
Colton Reed
Oh, what are you going to do about it? Nothing because you my friend, are powerless.
Bentley Barnes
the miners have been abusing the eda in bitcoin cash raising the inflation %, they game the distribution rates by not mining for 6 hours then mining the chain very fast until difficulty retargets I think the eda was a terrible idea, if there's going to be a fork they need to add something like kimoto gravity well and have difficulty adjust after each block
Noah Campbell
from everything I read payment channels are part of an open sourced code which anyone can participate, blockstream just happens to be one team developing them and I don't think blockstream stabbed anyone in the back or reneged, they didn't have a say in this NY "agreement"
Zachary Young
Eda is getting updated on cash. First implementation was a hack job it can work much better by simply updating faster.
Hudson Wood
They went along with the agreement until it stopped benefiting them. They control what contributions make it into bitcoin.
Blake Hernandez
Segwit2x will fail because it is being made by a Jew and as you all know with them you lose, just look at Bancor and Tezos. Same with his ARK clone metronome that he plans to launch afterrwards with B2X.
John Wood
When BitcoinCash was out the market carried on as normal. In fact the btc price rose shortly after. However, when Bitcoincash was being forked out big exchanges like Coinbase suspended trading!
We then had the Chinese government banning the BTC exchanges and that is still an on going issue, but I thought this also included the Chinese miners!!! The Chinese are Greedy, gamblers and currency manipulators! This caused a 40% market correction! It was very recently this happened remember!
As for SEGWITX2 this has been tested since July/August this year. It is being supported by Coinbase and other big exchanges! As free money will be available I am surprised I have not seen an even greater demand for BTC by users, etc... to stackup on the free money that will be given out eventually!?!
I know there is a lot of disagreement and politics involved... but, if BTC is being hampered it is the fork that is causing it. I would expect this fork to behave like the last one and would expect to see price increase for BTC. Coinbase will be hosting BITCOINCASH as well I think this is in the Q1 of 2018. I also believe SEGWITX2 will be a success as big names are behind it! the market will be bearish again! This technology is here to stay and not to die!
The picture I attached is a direct communication received yesterday form Coinbase!
However, for the future I think that Ethereum is going to be the fuel for crypto and ICOs . I know some of my friends have pulled out their money totally out of BTC because of the politics and the forking that is happening. Perhaps to accommodate for the growing market we need to Fork
Finally wait till proof of stake is out : When the switch to "Proof of Stake" comes there will be no mining anymore and because staking does not cost too many computational resources the fee for computation on the blockchain will decrease dramatically .....
Brayden Morales
all this forking is slowly dooming bitcoin, its basically having the same influence as inflation.
in fact, until some sort of robust anti-fork blockchain is developed, all blockchains will be fucked by this.
imagine 2 forks a months....because this is almost where we are now. then picture a fork every week on the top 10 on cmc.
Isaiah Williams
>80% of bitcoin mining power will be swtiching to the forked chain. They probably won't. (not 80%) 80% is signaling NYA, that doesn't mean they will mine it at a loss later. If the BTC chain is the highest profitable one, then they will mine it. S2X will have same difficulty, but a price of 15% of the real BTC. So they would have to mine it at a loss, for a long time, for it to be profitable. We will see the "unknown" miner mine it a lot then, so that it can be usable (and abandon BCH to die completely)
It will all depend on how profitable it is to mine it.
I prefer developers united than miners united. If the miners are in total control, they can start changing the rules to favor them. Increase the 21 million coin limit for example.
Christopher Collins
If bitcoin dies, so do all alts
Stop spreading lies about coinbase. Yes, they did publish that, but a few hours later they said they would call the longest chain BTC. If 80% of the miners stay in S2X, then S2X will become BTC.
Brayden Mitchell
>in fact, until some sort of robust anti-fork blockchain is developed yeah, fuck you metronome garzik. The guy making all the forks just announced a coin that is fork-proof. fucking bastard, holy shit. I hope he dies in a fire
Brayden White
I fail to see why 2x is a big deal. Bitcoin should do the no-brainer upgrade and focus on innovating. I think BTC will need smart contracts to beat ETH next year. (In terms of growth).
Colton Flores
Everyone is assuming miners will mine what ever is most profitable, but lets assume that some continue to mine at a loss for some time. What could the reasons for doing this be?
Jason Cox
it means buy Vertcoin.
Logan Foster
Then what goybase considers BTC won't be the same as BTC elsewhere because the chink communist party miners will mine b2x at a loss for 48 hours. This is all the time goybase needs to determine the real btc as far as they're concerned.
Enjoy your lawsuits.
Gavin Cook
1000x this But don't underestimate how ignore t people are Most people use auto updating wallets and are incredibly susceptible to external influence in markets they don't understand
Alexander Ortiz
BTC is where most of the hash power is, not where the devs are.
If there's enough hash power for a 51% then why wouldn't they do that until people have no choice but to adopt b2x as the real BTC? Assuming of course b2x has 80% of the hash power?
Adam Hughes
>unprecedented >Hardforked like 10 times already
Jose Cruz
>This is unprecedented
Something has been around less than 10 years......
"It's unprecedented!"
JUST LOL
Logan Lee
That doesn't mean that dumb money won't leave the market cap, and if this results in any major price drop it leaves core vulnerable to miners preferring a chain with higher profitability (if it gets thst bad)
Joseph Parker
It's too easy to rig since the Chinese state is subsiding electricity, hence the concentration of mines in China.
No one except the Chinese state wants btc to be determined this way alone.
Wyatt White
Miners=chinks
Isaac Collins
how the hell will bitcoin handle smart contracts? do you even to blockchainz?
Bentley Phillips
Stop using the fucking "alt" term "Alts" are bitcoin alternatives by definition, like litecoin There are blockchain technologies that have absolutely nothing to do with bitcoin or anything that bitcoin is trying to accomplish (really has accomplished), and they get labeled "Alts" all the time. Bitcoin can never "die", it can lose market cap and miners if something better comes around, but bitcoin is one of a kind, and fulfils needs in the marketplace that no asset has before
Gavin Hughes
>muh 2nd layer payment channels almost all people who support a blocksize increase ALSO support 2nd layer payment channels. But since there are no 2nd layer solutions existing right now today, then why is it so fucking impossible to alleviate the congestion by also allowing onchain scaling in the form of raising the blocksize a very conservative amount (2mb in case of 2x)
Do you understand? 2nd layer solutions = awesome forcing users to use 2nd layer solutions by artificially restricting onchain scaling = not awesome
Brayden Morris
thats like saying if altavista dies so does the internet
Jaxson Sanders
bitcoin has more forks than a cutlery drawer
Carson Anderson
kek this is 0/10 bait
Miners absolutely control the network and 'consensus', to think some faggy autistic programmers can't be replaced is moronic, in fact they already have been replaced.
Robert Hall
>theres no such thing as development centralizaton. it costs nothing to fork and convince the community to move to a new client lololololololololol
Next you'll say that communication channels can't be centralized, censored, and controlled too!
Jeremiah Gomez
if BTC dies, ETH survives. crypto is far beyond being just a currency now. we are having actual services that use the coins.
Carter Smith
it will be the end of the money in the space, thats for sure, maybe not for marginal tech based blockchains, but the money will entirely evaporate.
if bitcoin can get coopted by a bunch of chinks, its value is significnalty overvalued, if bitcoin can be overtaken by another coin which maintains a significantly higher store of value than bitcoin, all coins are significantly overvalued.
who exactly is going to put money into PoW coins, or any coin for that matter if even bitcoin can be destroyed or overtaken?
you don't understand finance.
Nathaniel Turner
survives only if it can pull of proof of stake and has other safeguards against chinks. and it will be pure utility, no longer a valuable token, because value in this space will have evaporated, at least until proof of stake can prove itself on the only other useful blockchain.
Oliver Jackson
the newness is oozing off you. you don't even understand how bitcoin works if you think miners control consensus. bitcoin was designed EXPLICITLY so miners couldn't do anything more than order transactions, or exclude transactions if every miner colludes.
nothing. more.
Colton Green
which is harder: pressing the fork button on a repository, or buying and trying to stay profitable mining bitcoin to remove the 51% attack the chinkies have on bitcoin right now?
go shill elsewhere.
Jaxon Sullivan
exactly. the chinks have shown their true colors throughout this whole bcash saga, expecially with their complete explotation of the hilariously embarrassing "fixes" to difficulty, creating huge periods of mega inflation on bcash.
you'd have to be braindead to think trusting the chinks with full control of development AND mining ends in anything but the death of bitcoin.
Kayden Murphy
i think you missed the point, bitcoin can fail and cease to exist, however blockchain, smart contracting etc will still be around.
the money would move from bitcoin which fails for whatever short coming into something which does not have the same issues.
how can you not see that this early on with this small a market cap bitcoin could cease to exist in 5 years and be replaced by something better?
Cameron Evans
If you unironically believe that the fork is the death of alts, you're retarded (probably just trolls post shit like that, but still). This fork is good for alts, and will drastically increase the price of alts and BTC will probably keep rising as it always do (10k before 2019)
Jason Torres
>10k before 2019)
at this rate it'll be 10k before EOY....and 100k next year. i don't even understand what's going on anymore, segwit2x is supposed to be something extremely scary, YET price just keeps increasing. what the fuck.
Alexander Sullivan
amazon rumor
Daniel Russell
Yes, rumor and fomo. When people realize the fork isnt gonna make you a multi trillionaire for holding 0.1 btc people are gonna invest back into alts, reducing the price of btc (massively, but temporarely) and skyrocketing the price of alts
Jack Thomas
Yes, I agree. If coinbase change S2X to be BTC people are going to be pissed
Ethan Jenkins
no it's not the same at all
Adam Hernandez
The money will move from bitcoin and cryptocurrencies back to fiat if BTC stops existing
Ayden Gray
what about ETH?
Landon Richardson
Why do you hate free money ?
Jacob Clark
I posted what I received from coinbase.. only ....
Eli Sanders
Eth is a dying bloatware. smart contract has proved to be too easy to hack because of the turing complete shit.
Justin Sanchez
i can't shake the feeling that this is a gradual influx of huge amounts of "smart money". the extreme volatility and fairly easy manipulation makes it very attractive for experienced traders, and will only attract more of them leading to a couple of possibly very nasty scenarios.
Grayson Richardson
bitcoin has to die. its taking up too much money. people actually think its digital gold because they only see the money it makes. bitcoin needs to free up some of the billions that are stuck there forever. its absolutely retarded to have a useless coin like btc to take up so much marketcap
Connor King
>80% of bitcoin mining power will be swtiching to the forked chain ok there Nostradomus
Jaxon Clark
you have to die too everything dies
Jeremiah Powell
No, you're the newfag here, or a fucking kike paid troll.
Kill yourself if you are legit you are too fucking stupid for this world. The miners literally control the network and protect it, BY FUCKING DESIGN.
Isaac Allen
the fuel of crypto currency
Alexander Richardson
the only legit thing for a real blockchain (not POS) to do is transfer value otherwise i i have a simple server solution for you
Ayden Perez
this comment alone proves that bitcoin is becoming a religion of fanatics with their retarded buzzwords like $hodl its not my fault that you have 0 investment education and believe bitcoin will save the world or someshit
Nathaniel Miller
So unlike the last fork, I don't automatically get the same value of the new coins which I can sell for btc without fucking up my btx holdings?
Hunter Phillips
omg who cares about all this bullshit, i just want to know whether I'll get free money for holding BTC?
Jackson Powell
did you miss the dip bro?
Justin Smith
right the whole "a trustless ledger that can never be modified" thing is worthless
Isaac Russell
okay here is a reasonable but slightly far fetched example: 5 years from now a state actor launches a quantum attack on bitocin out of nowhere. bitcoin attempts to implement quantum resistance, but it will take time (bitcoin) and all legacy wallets are vulnerable.
unable to respond fast enough everyone has a mass sell off of bitcoin moving all of their holdings into a specifically built quantum resistant cryptocurrencey.
sure the above is highly unlikely but if you cannot envision such a scenario then you must be extremely hard line in your viewpoint.
Luis Sullivan
Dump it when we get free?btg was a disappoiintment earned almost nothing.
Mason Gutierrez
we're all greedy assholes
Tyler Thomas
What in the fuck are you even talking about? Too easy to hack?
Eth has proved to be amazing for cryptocurrencies and applications in general. Honestly you shouldn't be allowed to speak.
i understand what you're saying. my point is that ethereum's price comes not from smart contracts but from speculation in the space as ethereum being a good (enough) store of value like bitcoin.
if it's shown that store of value crypto aren't actually good stores of value, i expect the valuation of all crypto to drop heavily. a black swan event for bitcoin is an even bigger swan for cryptocurrency.
solidity needs huge fixes and improvements, sure, but bloatware? hardly. it's actually more efficent in disk/network space than bitcoin is for the transactions it does. its possible to run a light client on much less demanding hardware than it is to run an svp node for bitcoin.
you just sound like someone bagholding a bunch of shitcoins. the actual reality is it's the hundreds of alts that will never amount to anything other than exchange fodder that are holding and wasting capital. coins like litecoin are nothing more than a capital sink.
lol, you really don't understand how the code works. miners have one job to do, that it does not involve anything to do with consensus. the real jews are the chinks that want to sacrifice bitcoin so they can get paid more per block.
nobody would ever move to a quantum resistant crypto, and this scenario isn't feasible because as it stands now bitcoin is quantum resistant. the only people losing money are people spending from accounts more than once, which hasn't been a thing in modern bitcoin clients for years.
Kayden Adams
do people actually believe this? bitcoin needs second layer networks before it's feasible to open up to amazon users like that. its the perfect use case because amazon are a huge entity that will accept the slightly higher risk profile required, because it's still orders of magnitude less risk than accepting credit/debit card payments.
Evan Baker
Fucking bitcoin maximalists I swear to god
James Morris
Sorry buddy but you're simply wrong, the miners control the network end of fucking story. If you think some fucking autistic kikestream patsy cannot be replaced you're as fucking stupid as I believe you are.
