Stop fucking making fun of SS. Seriously, stop...

>coming to Veeky Forums for actual fitness advice and being convinced by a hungarian upholstery forum that SS is a meme

I just come here for posts like this

Kys

oi yea

SS is literally the worst "routine" ever conceived, Mark rippleshit is one of the biggest con artists

Shut up retard you don't know shit

I don't know who's trolling who anymore?

What is a good beginner routine? I'd appreciate serious answers if Veeky Forums is capable of that.

Starting Strength created by Mark Riptoe

t. I spend my professional life failing to rehab injuries that a guy with a geology degree fixes for his trainees on a routine basis in his gym in Buttfuck, Texas.

>squats are bad for you

While you're worried about a routine CHAD EATS PIZZA EVERY DAY AND STILL LOOKS SHREDDED

This is the only factual response

>lazy routine with 3 movements per day and tiny volume
>drinking an entire gallon of milk a day while doing an iifym diet
Yeah, sure sounds "fit" to me bro.

Shut up retard you don't know shit

I wish I wasn't so new to Veeky Forums because I don't know what the hell is going on.

Sorry, but even rippletits says it's a routine "your grandma could do." SS is the most basic barebones effort you can do to make gains. If you choose to do the bare minimum, don't be dissapointed by the results.

Basically retard fatties gravitate towards SS because it's an easy as fuck routine to do. Results of SS are fairly consistent.
>bigger legs
>pathetic upper body
>fatter
Of course, nobody wants to say "my training is lazy and inefficient" so instead they try to tell other noobs to do SS to legitimize their poor choice.

Never going to make it. Sad!

>Basically retard fatties gravitate towards SS
And what about those of us that are low weight looking to gain weight and strength

I thought SS was just a good beginner plan to build a foundation in strength and weight lifting in general?

At least that's how I'm looking at it. Then again I'm not training for looks, I don't care about that. I just want to be stronger and in better health.

I've been doing SS on a deficit as a fatty and been making great progress, only people who call it a troll routine are permastall brosplitters

It's more or less a program that was based around the idea of "we have a couple months to take this scrawny kid and get him to where he won't die on the football field". Further you are from that ideal - skinny young guy with a short timetable to bring up his numbers - the less of a good idea it tends to be.

and also, what about accessory work? I always do them after the main 3 workouts (chin ups, dips, hyper extensions and sit ups)

So at what point should you move from SS to another routine

SS + chins & deads is GOAT beginner routine. the SS is a meme is the actual meme.

t. Rippletoe zealot on his first 6 months
Eat big lift heavy and frequently. Look up babylovers SS. It's a modification of the standard SS routine made by someone who dwarfs rippletoads lifts. It has more frequency, is flexible and hits miscles that SS leaves out
Like I said, it's only the BARE MINIMUM. You will make gains, but not as much as you could.

Juggernaut beginner routine

You have no credibility compared to Mark. Why should anyone listen to what you have to say

Then get the fuck off of Veeky Forums and give daddy rip a bootycall you shit eating faggot.

Ah yes, "optimal training". The modern noobish lifter is usually some skinny/skinny-fat kid with no musculature (because "optimal training" focuses on "strength" and not muscles "like those vain bodybuilders") and all sorts of crap on him.

Seeing a kid put on squat shoes, a belt, wrist-wraps and SBDs to squat 120kgs and do maybe 2 of them as a squat and the rest as something that resembles nothing is sad. Then we move on to bench and due to the "optimal' way that the training is done, our boy benches less than the bros and about as much as a highschool kid doing calisthenics and playing sports.

Seeing a pack of these guys is always a recipe for hilarity. Usually the discussions would range from topics such as Alan Thrall, Silent Mike and whomever else is trending on Youtube. Hearing them "troubleshoot" their benches is even more hilarious with craptastic advice such as "arch more", "squeeze your glutes" and "initiate leg drive".

These programs are not bad but there are other ways to train if you want to get big - ones that don't focus on giving you the Blaha physique i.e big ass, wide hips and hamstrings.

If you do fit that template? Around about the time you start to stall repeatedly on squatting. Rip says run it until the third proper stall, I think most people can get away with less.

If you don't? Personally I'd say most people would be better off running something slightly higher volume/lower intensity and more balanced. The full body approach itself is fine (personally I like the PTC beginners program but really any program that has decent volume and frequency with an idea of how to progress is going to work).

No need to go ape shit when someone calls you out on your BS, lol. Makes you look like an autsitic child.

chins & dips *

>hey guys, im a newcommer, im skinnyfat and i dream of a pleasant beach body, i want to fill out polo shirts and be generally fit and athletic. how doi go about that?

WELL YOU SHOULD DO A ROUTINE THAT PUTS 90% OF THE FOCUS ON IONCREASING THE WORST VARIATION OF SQUAT, LEAVES LITTLE TO NO VOLUME TO THE UPPER BODY, COMPLETLY NEGLECTS ANY VARIATION OF BACK WORK OR ARM WORK ALSO MAKE SURE YOU DRINK 3 LITERS OF MILK A DAY SO YOU SHIT PRIMARILY COTTAGE CHEESE

Lol this. SS is an introduction to powerlifting, nothing else.

>worst variation of squat
debatable
>little to no volume to the upper body
Theres plenty though
>completely neglects any variation of back work or arm work
Deadlift&Bench both work arms, Rows work back
>drink 3 liters of milk a day
this is one thing i'll agree with Rippetoes nutrition advice is pretty garbage.

Default SS doesn't have any rows. It does have chins as an assistance movement but most people neglect to read that far into the book.

I wonder how stupid you would need to be to actually squat every day of the week

That's fair, but pendlay rows are a very common substitution for power cleans with SS

You only even go to the gym 3 days a week according to the workout

>"why is SS a meme"
>*lists reasons why it's shit*
>BUT RIPPLEFAT SAYS
>*gives better alternative*
>b-but muh rippletoad!
If you want to believe SS is unquestionably the end-all-be-all just go to the SS forum. Veeky Forums isn't for you.

>debatable
no its not, lb is biomechanically closer dl that proper squat and its far inferior for optimal quad development
>Theres plenty though
there are weeks where you do 3 sets of bench and call it the day lmao how the fuck is that anywhere close to optimal?
>Deadlift&Bench both work arms, Rows work back
im gonna assume you had a stroke when you said deadlift works arms and address the latter remark, bench doesnt work arms to a degree significant for optimal growthand ss has no rows

here's by far the best beginner routine by the way

>There is plenty of volume
3x5 bench
3x5 chins
3x5 dips

You call that plenty? That's the bare minimum.

>Deadlift and Bench work arms
Please explain to me why every good bencher, every powerlifter, every Olympic lifter and every bodybuilder in the history of the world do direct arm work? Please explain to me why getting a bigger and stronger triceps drives your bench up like nothing else.

>Rows
SS doesn't have rows. The rows SL recommends are the worst variety you can do as primary back work.

and it also tells you to not do any cardio.

>Deadlift&Bench both work arms
just lol. i dont even know what to say.

>Veeky Forums isn't for you
>SS is listed as a routine on the Veeky Forums sticky
Hmmm

>i dont lift the post.

So then what routine would you suggest someone do that is just getting into lifting?

Outdated sticky written by a DYEL.

Who has the bigger arms - the bros or the SS crowd? Even your idol Alan Thrall has no arms.

See

Alright then you fucking pack of cockteasers what routine SHOULD I be doing

You can easily add accessories for arms which is covered in the book.

a bit far fetched, isn't it?

download candito's ebook and pick up a routine that looks fun. yes, he does the unthinkable by giving the beginners and option to tailor the routine according to their needs and golas while still staying witihn the guidelines of proper linear progression.

Depends on your goals.

I don't want to write a wall of text so this Candito thing seems alright. Generally, I'd advise you to start on a 3-day split where you drive 2-3 exercises and then figure out what works for you and what doesn't. For legs don't do squats for the first 3-4 months, do leg press and good mornings so when you squat you don't look like a duck.

YNDTP

accessories in the book, or atvery least in the 3rd edition, are only covered in theory, in terms of biomechanics - there is nothing about programming.

>but if you add this or that and maybe remove this is a good routine!

it essentially boils down to this. whenever people reccomend SS, whenever newfags read the sticky they are met with the bare bones cookie cutter skeleton of a program that the fat texan fuck once ripped off from bill starr. its overly dogmatic, inflexible, lacking in volume and adjustability to trainee's need. if you want bigger arms you pick up a barbell and curl it, you dont need rippletits throwing a shit fit because YNDTP.

strength training is for people who wanna call themselves fit without fixing their diet

lifting weights is easy. eating right is really really hard

And Mr. Toe says right there in the book where he talks about rows as an assistance exercise that they're not an acceptable substitute for cleans.

To the original point though: every SS exercise WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE SQUAT is working the arms in some capacity, and every single one with the arguable exception of the bench is working the back.

>working the arms in some capacity

stroking my dick works my arms "in some capacity"

Deadlift doesn't use the arms, power cleans don't really either. You've basically just got the bench and press. Which might be enough for triceps but is kind of lacking for biceps. Not even from an aesthetics perspective. Strong triceps/weak biceps is a recipe for elbow pain when pressing (and for shitty stability on the eccentric).

None of them are particularly back dominant either. They use the back, sure, but not enough that you're going to get much development from it outside of your erectors traps. That's acceptable if your short term goals require a hyper focus on the squat and pressing right damn now, not so good if you're looking longer term.

You guys continue to amaze me. The bench is a display of your upper body strength. It's a good chest and delt builder but is limited by your delt and triceps strength. If you use the bench to build your arms you will have noodles. Do your french presses and do your curls, you won't die from them.

Also deadlift for arms. You get some forearm work, however, you are better off doing grip work if you want bigger forearms.

You do realise that Bill Starr taught Rip how to lift, right?

And that Starr was a contributor to Rip's website for years, had nothing but good things to say about the guy (he even credited Rip with saving the OHP from the dustbin of lifting history where he had been unable to do so.)

And that Rip built his programming using Starr's as a base to compensate for the flaws that Starr acknowledged were inherent in his programming because of circumstance?

So saying Rip somehow 'stole' the program from Starr is more or less slapping your micropenis on the table and admitting you don't bring anything to this discussion?

Also, YNDTP is addressed specifically to people who add 8 accessory lifts, only squat once a week, and try to add 15lbs a session then wonder why they can't ever bench more than 150lbs.

Also also, chin ups are a type of bicep curl you dumb fuck.

This looks a lot like Westside. If you don't want to powerlift you can easily ditch the deadlifts and you won't miss that much.

It's not really that similar to westside. It's a four day upper/lower but that's about where the similarities end.

Saying that the chin-up is a type of curl is like saying the bench is a type of tricep work. 9/10 people can start doing chinups after they address their weak arms, not the other way around.

>dissuading newcomers into the fitness community

What's wrong with that? Less competition while I look great standing next to fatties, manlets, and fatty manlets.

Heavy work to practice the lifts and hypertrophy work to build them up. It's a good program, probably one of the better ones to come out of the Internet.

>what are chins?

Also, what parts of the back, precisely, are not being worked in their anatomically correct function by the excersies in SS?

You don't squat and can't coach it because you don't know how to properly do it.
SS is only bad if you stick to it for more than a year.

I'm not saying its bad (it isn't), just that it doesn't have the things that distinguish westside from the standard upper/lower approach. No ME work, no DE work, no rotation of main exercises, no use of supplemental movements etc.

From all of the SS exercises the best one for back are the chin-ups which are (surprise, surprise) a pure back exercise. The deadlift and the clean are lower-body dominant. There's a reason why bodybuilders do deadlifts in a specific way or outright discard them - they are too hamstring and quad dependent.

If you want a bigger and thicker back - rows. Yates rows, bent over rows, T-bar rows, dumbell rows. That's what you should be doing. If you want the deadlift to be a back builder don't lower your bar below the knee.

Answer the question I actually asked. What muscles in the back are not being worked in their anatomically correct function by the excersises described in SS?

If their anatomically correct function involves actually moving, then you can put in all of them (except on chin-ups). They're isometric holds which are generally not sufficient for strengthening purposes.

I answered your question - they are awful back builders because there are better options out there.

Except most of the muscles in the back are holding isometrically in normal anatomical function. The ones that aren't are getting worked in the chins.

No you didn't. I said which muslces in the back aren't being worked in their correct anatomical function. You went off on an autistic tangent about muh rows and how muh bodybuilders don't deadlift (they do.)

"The more conditioned athlete is the better athlete. The Russians know this, the Bulgarians know this, but American strength coaches want to baby their lifters with inadequate volume." - Ironman Magazine, from the 80s.

You can jerk yourself over anatomy all you want - the deadlift and your clean suck as back builders if they are the things you are using.

>muh bodybuilders
youtube.com/watch?v=vZnLRqD4M-I

Skip to 5:59. Do you notice anything? He isn't doing full deadlifts because full deadlifts put the stress on your but, hamstrings and quads. Maybe, just maybe Dorian knows a bit more about bigger backs than Mark Rippetoe.

dorian just liked to do partial reps period tho, not the other user, but he was a big fan of partial rom for heavy + ton of reps.

From all of the ironheads, Dorian is maybe the one that knew how the body worked the most. There is no such thing as partial reps - it's a different exercise entirely. It's a rack pull/block pull that has been used by powerlifting and Olympic coaches for generations for strengthening and developing the upper back of their lifters.

One clip of Dorian Yates doing romanian deadlifts in a single setting means deadlifts aren't good at building backs. Gotcha.

SS the book and SS the routine are both about training NOVICES. Nobody has ever claimed it works forever, or that those six exercises are all you'll ever need to do. But they most definitely are the only thing you need to do if you're a novice.

If you'd actually read it you'd know that there's a whole section on partial movements which says they're great for more advanced (i.e. past the first 3-4 months) trainees to expose parts of the range of motion of a full exercise (like deadlifts) to more volume stress if they're used correctly.

>One clip of Dorian Yates doing romanian deadlifts in a single setting means deadlifts aren't good at building backs.

You are the one yapping about anatomy but you have a very poor grasp over it. The upper back hinges on the shoulder joint, while the lower back hinges on the hips. The deadlift is a hip hinge and done correctly uses your upper back as a stabiliser, not as a primary mover.

>NOVICES
There is no such thing as training classification. If a guy says "I want a bigger back" he should be told which exercises have the best effect for getting a big fucking back so he can work towards getting good at them. That's how we used to do things back in the day - find a guy with a big back and ask him. Find another guy with a big back and ask him.

>the only thing to do
Hahahha. If I tell you to do a standing press for shoulders but your shoulders are so weak that your back and upper chest end up tacking over is the standing press really good for shoulders? Fuck's sake, exercises are a means to an end. From I don't know how many variations and sub-variations you tell people that they only have to do 5. Just lol.

>more advanced
Partials are perfect for people starting out because they force them to train the muscles they are intended to. When I tell you to do a rack pull I know that you will work your upper back no matter how uncoordinated you are. If I tell you to do a pull to the knees and hold, I know your lower body will take a beating.

What sort of weak faggot needs to 'address their weak arms' before doing chin ups?

Something is telling me that my grandfather would spank your jewish ass for this.

Garrett Blevins' early novice template is a cracking program.

Greyskull > SL > SS

They are all the same with minor differences. Greyskull focuses more on upper body than ss and sl; sl has more volume than ss; with ss you proggress faster. Whatever u choose as a beginner, you should start studying to build your own customized routine.

How long, on average, does it take for said pack to get through their mobility work and warm up sets before they actually start doing work?

The sort of person that has spent their youth playing WoW.

15 min for mobility. There are no "warm up sets" unless you are doing the bar.

We don't want them to get fat.