Ripfags btfo:

>the core should be similar to Starting Strength
Any sensible program focuses on the compound movements.

Food makes you fat and the volume dictates where and how much muscle you put on. That's why Internet lifters end up looking like shit - insufficient volume to use the high amount of calories they packing on.

There's a Youtuber called Fight Time prod. who even at 107kg and 30% bf was not fat - he looked like a security guard in front of a night club. The catch - he was training 5 times a week and sometimes doing twice a day with typical bb/bro volume.

High volume is always the go.

nah but he writes most of his stuff with a PhD jew.

The best thing beginners could do is Westside for Skinny Bastards.

>Any sensible program focuses on the compound movements.
Yes, but a sensible beginner program shouldn't have you working compounds in high rep ranges.

In fact I'm of the opinion you shouldn't do competition lifts in high rep ranges at all, but that's more of a European vs. American philosophical difference.

Fight, also has 8 inch wrists. That's why he looks good. Someone with 6" wrists and a small skeletal structure won't look anything like him.

this. he advocates using rotating lifts for beginners (

>straps
>that "depth"

powerlifters are clowns

Depends on both the exercise and the individual. You can get away with high reps on the squat and bench variations but not on the deadlift ones.

Fight has the same structure as me and is 3cm taller. We can carry the fat as long as we keep the volume up. When I go low-volume, high intensity I end up looking like shit.

What's a good high volume program? By high volume you mean low weights in the range of 10-20 reps right?

You don't have to use 10-20 reps. Keep your intensity between 60-80% and focus on doing as many sets as possible. If you want structure you can look into Sheiko (if powerlifting is your thing) or Westside for Skinny Bastards if you just want a program to build muscle.

not him but if I'm not mistaken, volume is reps x sets x weight. I think the weight part is what a lot of people get wrong.

Both the weight and sets. The reason you do canned routines is to get an idea how things work. I can't tell you to just "feel it" but that's what it boils down to.

don't know about westside for skinny /b/tards but doesn't sheiko's novice routine require a coach?

>You can get away with high reps on the squat and bench variations but not on the deadlift ones.
Again it's a cultural thing, Americans seem to want their athletes not doing so many sets, so to "compensate" they usually use higher rep ranges or intensity, while in Europe one rarely sees sets of competition lifts (either WL or PL) exceed 6 repetitions, but will have a high number of sets (6-10+)

Don't look at the novice routine. Just grad the under 80kg spreadsheet and start training.

Westside for Skinny Bastards is what Joe DeFranco uses to get his athletes to put on weight.

You can't go wrong with both.

Yeah I've noticed. I think it's due to the fact that powerlifting and weightlifting in the USA spawned from bodybuilding while in EE bodybuilding and powerlifting came from weightlifting.

I am Eastern European myself and from what I remember the guys were doing 8 reps max and only on the bench and front squat.

I think that is something that is tailored to the individual athlete, more "power"-type guys (i.e. explosive) won't really benefit from high rep training at all, while others might (especially women I've seen)

I'm Norwegian myself, my current program does not have a single set of competition lifts (@ >=50%) above 6 reps.

Heh, you guys are doing really well now. Dietmar knows his stuff. Did you also get Stefan as well to train you guys or are you just going into raw and not single-ply (or very limited)?

>You can get away with high reps on the squat and bench variations but not on the deadlift ones.

youtube.com/watch?v=MXLo7J0qit0

Oh it is almost only equipped that is being put effort into, classic is still unfortunately an afterthought as always.

I'm just a shit tier grunt though, so I don't know everything that is happening strategically.

Lehman is a monster. I said that deadlifts aren't repped out as much because it's easier to mess up a deadlift than it is to mess up a squat or bench.

You might hate me for this but I personally prefer geared and single-ply to raw. I know raw is more popular now but I never liked it that much and I don't like the effect it is having on the training world in general.

I have no ill will towards equipped, almost everyone around me is doing it anyway, I'm just not interested myself.

I do feel a tad neglected from time to time though.

Heh it can happen. That or you can look into single-ply in the future.

Eh, I've tried a shirt once, not something for me I think. I'll just continue on. This at least makes it easy to place high on classic meets :^)

Been curious about weightlifting though.

Hahaha.

If it peaks your interest, there is no reason why you shouldn't look into it. You are already strong from powerlifting so they will help you out with your technique and stuff.

Yeah, I'll check them out sometime in the coming months, will be fun to deload to broomstick :^)

yeah can anybody explain how the routine posted even relates to the method? how do you pick your intensity on the assistance/alternative lifts (e.g. front squats)?

ITT:

People who don't lift heavy.

Personally I run TJM on one main movement and one accessory per training day. (eg: squat and good morning) Additional accessory work is IMO not worth worrying too much about choose a set/rep scheme (3x5, 5x5, 5/3/1, whatever) and try to add weight over time.

complete beginner here, how the hell are you supposed to know when to add weight and which weight to add?

also what does he mean by "work up to a max set of x reps"?
do I take what I think is my x rep max and just do 2 warmup sets and 1 set with my x rep max?
What about "work up to 3 sets of max reps"? Do I just do 3xAMRAP? How do I pick the weight?
Fuck, no wonder SS and the likes are so popular among beginners.

Say you're working up to a max set of 3 reps in the squat and you're best squat is 315 for a single. You can probably hit something in the neighborhood of 285-295 for 3 but you should have a previous 3RM which you should try to beat by 5-10 lbs (use a rep calculator if you need to)

I'd go:

>Bar x 10
>135 x 5
>185 x 5
>225 x 3
>255 x 3
>275 x 3
>Previous best + 5-10lb x3 (be conservative, small PRs add up over time and failed lifts don't make you stronger)

>high volume makes you weak but aesthetic

Weight linear progression is easier when you are a beginner

so you use that and just focus on getting more weight

By the time you stall and are intermediate, you can't progress by just adding weight, you need to do high volume

But now that high volume is thousands more lb per workout that if you had started high volume previously being a weak fuck

For example i didn't did rows for like 2 years, only pull ups and chin ups weighted

I ended with a 30kg pull up 5x5, and stalled hard for like 3 months.

So i started doing high volume, did 3x5 25kg weighted pull ups, then 5x10 t bar rows with 3 plates, then 5x15 kroc rows with 50lb with 20 sec rest

And my back exploded, and in a month i broke my stall

Wouldn't putting novices through a relatively high volume style of training before they've really got proper form down lead to a fuck off huge rate of injury and drop out?
Assuming of course that we're talking about coachless novices without an athletic background.

> 5x5 squat, deadlit, and bench in one workout isn't high volume

I've never understood why aestheticsfags think like this. Is it because they're all doing 5x20 bench with 95lbs?

Which beginner program has 5x5 squat, deadlift and bench in one workout?

WELP today I learned SS only has you doing 3x5 and SL is the 5x5 one

disregard my post

And they both have you doing one set of deadlifts.

It's high volume lower-body and low-volume upper-body. That's why SS/SL leaves you with a Redguy physique.

They aren't using high weights. I am far more concerned with people with no athletic background trying to squat 100kg for reps. It becomes a total shitshow.

pretty sure SL is marginally better, but don't both Mehdi and Rip advocate doing pullups, curls, etc. in addition to the workouts provided?

I know SL has rows (the worst kind but it's better than nothing) and I think that chins and dips are now officially part of the program. Don't know about curls. SS and SL are good if you want to go into powerlifting but they are meh for aesthetics - you need a hell of a lot more upper body work, considering your upper body can handle more work.

Daily reminder that I dont care what you sub novices think.

I bench 245, squat 315, dead 405 and ohp 150, pendlay row 200 for 5 reps @190lb 6ft. This is from SS and texas method. Your faggy aesthetics routine never made any sense to me b/c I can bench 185x20 if I wanted to but you cant even bench 2 plates? Im bigger than you, stronger than you, and I actually workout like a man

This is from the perspective of training actual powerlifters and athletes lad.
chins, dips and maybe even some kind of tricep accessory is common to SS I believe.

Either way, it's not programming that should be followed for very long. I also wouldn't recommend Texas Method for very long other than to maybe squeeze out the last few weeks of linear progression, as it has too low volume.

So what accesories would you advise for SL? I'm starting 3rd month tomorrow, I'm doing 3x6 dips (chest) and 3x6 pullup now but feel like my chest for example is still lagging. Would it be worth to throw in some high volume incline bench for chest?

ive been making the best games of my life in the past few months (overall >5 years liftan and overall very decent PBs) by working up to a heavy single on main lifts and following it up with a couple of backoff sets based on said single, eg if i benched 145kg for 1 i'll do something like 3x6 with 120kg. when working up to the heavy single i usually can tell if i feel particularly good that day and if ill be able to PR. if not ill do a lighter single BUT ill do more volume on the backoff sets.

i think this principle could be easily adapted for beginners - you can easily track progression based on your singles, get plenty of volume from backoff set, and the programming is flexible enough to accomodate for worse days without halting progression. plus breaking records is fun as fuck.

What are your real stats "lad"?

Don't change anything drastic like more bench volume. At best do 3x10 flies and some triceps work. After SL stops working consider something else. I don't like bastardizing programs, even the ones I don't like that much.

That's how we used to train back in the day - work up to a top set, do volume, do some more exercises and go do something else. Simple.

Cheers. Yeah I want to continue SL until I've squeezed the last out of lineair progression. To be honest it's motivating because I'm seeing progress every single training day and it's simple as fuck. I think I might go for a more split oriented routine afterwards (prob after summer), maybe with still a lot of focus on compound lifts because I enjoy them. Nothing feels better than doing a heavy diddly desu.

Not him.

180/120/210 at 72kg
220/140/240 at 83kg

Can we stop measuring our penises and actually discuss lifting? All training styles work.

Whatever you enjoy. When you decide on your split, see what bodypart you want to improve, pick some exercises and grind away. Simples.

that's not correct

If youre not him why did you reply?

225/130(JUST)/250

>Either way, it's not programming that should be followed for very long.
I mean no, you're meant to follow it for a few months until your noob gains start slowing down

I'm with you on the switching to a higher volume routine soon after. Any strength OR aesthetics routine worth its salt involves high volume

Because it's an overall good thread and people might learn something. Measuring our dicks accomplishes nothing.

Sigh. No, novice, youre supposed to do it until youve milked your linear gains to the last drop. That means you could be on SS for up to a year depending on your progress. Thats a GOOD thing. Because gains each training session are better than gains weekly or monthly. And wtf is this high volume shit? Is TM high volume? Like shut the fuck up already

The debate isn't the effectiveness of high volume with high weight because that's been shown to be effective through programs like Sheiko, it's whether or not high volume with a high percentage of somebody's max is necessary for somebody just starting off, and it's been shown that for the most part, it isn't. 3x5 will work just fine for progression for most new people starting off.

>all that he does is high volume and world class nutrition, coaching, genetics, and juice don't do anything

Its not a good thread when ppl who arent even intermediate are giving bad advice to others

>400 wilks
>not intermediate

You weigh more than I do and are significantly weaker than I am. For 86kg, a 180kg DL is nothing. That's what I was repping out at 70kg. Just stop.

Was I talking about you you fucking autist?

Who are you talking about?