So why did everyone become a vegan?

So how does one get enough macro's when eating vegan? I used to almost not eat any meat but since I started Lifting I'm eating animal products daily to reach my proteins... Honestly I want to slowly cut out all animal products from my diet alltogether. Maybe buying whey is a good start?

...

Genesis 1:29

And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

Daniel 1:11-15

11 Daniel then said to the guard whom the chief official had appointed over Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael and Azariah, 12 “Please test your servants for ten days: Give us nothing but vegetables to eat and water to drink. 13 Then compare our appearance with that of the young men who eat the royal food, and treat your servants in accordance with what you see.” 14 So he agreed to this and tested them for ten days.

15 At the end of the ten days they looked healthier and better nourished than any of the young men who ate the royal food. 16 So the guard took away their choice food and the wine they were to drink and gave them vegetables instead.

Who /fruitarian/ here?

>Except meat is more calorie and nutrients dense then vegtables

Calorie counting is bullshit. I have a friend who eats cake all thet time and stays thin, while cows only eat grass and vegetables and are more calorie-dense.

>citing a made up story to prove his point.
Hahahahahahaha veganism really is a cult.

>veganism really is a cult.
>is a cult.
>cult.
YOU BETTER TAKE THAT BACK M,\OTHER FUCKER!!!!

>becouse y does z, x must be false
Really fires up those brain cells.

Denail is not just a river in Eygpt.

>All these animals use up Oxygen and increase CO2
Out of all arguments to become vegan this must be the most stupid

...

Kek!!!!

brrrraap. *sniff sniff*
mmhhmmm

It's pretty cheap, they tell me it's good for the environment, I don't want to give people money to kill animals, and most people agree that a plant-based diet is the healthiest way to eat whether that means 90% plants or 100% full vegan

I did it because I want to lose as much muscle as possible as quickly as possible. I also want to be deficient in essential vitamins and amino acids so that I look and feel sick.

So what, you go on another date with them and order a steak?

>Haven't met a fat vegan yet
I know one. Fries all day every day. Fries and pizza bases

2/10 b8

That's actually accurate.

Veganism reduces testosterone in men and causes multiple nutrient deficiencies.

Same, I know a fat vegan couple at my college. All they do is eat Oreos, potatoe chips, and white bread.

Oreos arent vegan you dumbass.

t. vegan

Whey is a byproduct of making cheese or comes from milk

lmgtfy.com/?iie=1&q=Are Oreos vegan

Being vegan is retarded for our biology, and plant farming at this point in time is no better for the environment than animal farming, sometimes worse since to buy a lot of that fancy vegan shit you're supporting SLAVE LABOR in third world countries. Hypocritical retard.

I buy and eat meat. I source where it comes from whenever possible, buying local and pasture raised (Meaning the animals live pretty much naturally until it's their time).

I consider it the part of nature. I wouldn't stop my cat from killing and eating a bird or a mouse (Mostly because good fucking luck stopping a cat from doing anything it wants to do) just like I wouldn't stop a bear from eating both meat and fruit.

As long as the animal is not mistreated and is allowed to live a happy life until it's their time, I can eat meat guilt-free. Plus it tastes better when they live without stress which is kinda proof enough to me that it's how we're meant to do it.

It's expensive though so I just flexi-tarian for the most part (i.e. I eat tofu for some meals instead, and aim for vegetable and fruit based breakfasts or lunches more so than ones with meat).

But fact is, we're capable of eating and digesting meat. We have done so for a shmillion years as a species. Veganism is not an easily sustainable diet, many become weak or depressed the longer they stay on the diet (Years for some, months for others), and it's not a great option for me personally because I like steak, chicken, fish, as long as they're not tortured until they die.

I don't eat dairy because of an allergy though.

Yeah I know a fat vegan too, but to be fair he isn't good at being vegan (Seen that kid get the munchies and chow down on animal products just not meat).
He's a good guy though other than that and doesn't push it down people's faces too much.

CO2, methane and nitrous oxide levels are going up thanks to you vegan faggots. What do you think it takes to produce your rabbit food?
Eat fish or die

I think there are 3 primary arguments for veganism that are overwhelmingly convincing -

[The Ethical argument]
P1 (Premise 1): Unnecessary suffering is wrong
P2: Eating animal products is unnecessary
P3: Eating animal products causes suffering
C (Conclusion): Therefore, eating animal products is wrong

[The Environmental argument]
P1: For our long term future and for the future of our planet and all its flora and fauna and so forth, as the only known 'intelligent' species we have a duty to preserve the environment and oppose anything that might threaten it
P2: The production and consumption of animal products threatens the environment when compared to the alternative of production and consumption of plant based alternatives
P3: There is no good reason to produce and consume animal products vs plant based alternatives
C: Therefore, we have a duty to oppose the production and consumption of animal products (i.e. be vegan and promote veganism)

[The Health argument]
P1: We have a moral obligation to treat the source(s) of any worldwide disease(s) that is/are killing many people
P2: Heart disease is, by some margin, the leading killer worldwide (who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs310/en/)
P3: Heart disease (amongst many, many other leading killer diseases) is heavily associated with consumption of animal products, which have saturated fat (saturated fat hardly found in any other foods) (dresselstyn.com/JFP_06307_Article1.pdf)
C: Therefore, we have a moral obligation to oppose the consumption of animal products, and to advocate for the consumption of plant based alternatives, particularly when it has been documented that these alternatives have the power to reverse the leading killer - heart disease (see previous citation)

(part 1/2)

(Part 2/2)

If anyone is familiar with formal logic, you will know that an argument is divided into premises and a conclusion. An argument is "valid" if and only if it is not possible for the premises to be true and the conclusion to be false. This has no bearing on the truth of the conclusion however, because the possibility of the premises being true does not make them true in practise. An argument is sound if it is both valid and the premises are actually true. If this is the case then the conclusion must also be true. (see: iep.utm.edu/val-snd/ for more on this)

I believe the three above arguments satisfy the criteria for both validity and soundness, thus I believe their conclusions and the obligations their conclusions bring to be true by definition. If you have any issue with this, then you must work to show how they are either in-"valid" (the conclusion does not follow from the premises by necessity) or un-"sound" (the premises are untrue). Otherwise, you must also accept their conclusions as true by definition.

If you want something with a bit more depth, I believe this to be best paper ever written on the ethics of animal products: faculty.smu.edu/jkazez/animal rights/norcross-4.pdf

Thanks for reading.

who the fuck cares i like eating steak

>who the fuck cares i like assaulting children
>who the fuck cares i like killing old people
>who the fuck cares i like molesting teenagers
>>who the fuck cares i like [morally repugnant act that gives me pleasure]

**before any meat-lover sperges at me, I am not equating the consumption of animal products to the above acts, they are merely for the sake of analogy**

You're a cancer to society and I mean that literally, not as an insult.

Factory farming has created a situation where a massive chunk of the gulf of mexico is actually devoid of all fish life.

And the only way for the type of pure veganism that people who push it and don't produce their own veg depends on factory farming.

There is no positive environmental impact and the amount of living creatures that were and are still being genocided and chunks of earth that have been STERILIZED( like the kind of destruction that made people write long nightmare scenario GOD(s)has forsaken us/is angry with us kind of shit) is staggering.

mate vegan is a stupid hippy meme, your teeth are omnivores teeth. you have fucking canines and incisors, fuck me people are so dumb.

ethical argument - it is unethical not to eat meat, because you are dooming billions of cows to unbirth, non-existence, they will never be born, you have commited the most atrocious sin against a living thing, by taking away its opportunity to ever be alive.

environmental argument - humans create problems and then solutions and then more problems. you don't get solutions by banning, stopping or reverting back to a less efficient system. history shows us free societies structured around giving people what they want are the most prosperous and environmentally conservative. the only other historical alternative is mass depopulation. if people did not want to eat meat they wouldn't eat it and the meat industry would collapse. people will always want to eat meat because its part of their biological imperative to consume animal fats and proteins and to develop towards larger brains and bigger bodies.

health argument - this is the most retarded shit i've ever read, the most healthy people are in the developed world and they consume far more meat than some villager in south east asia or a poor african country. the health risks in the western world stem solely from over-indulgence, this is a moral failing with respect to temperance, something closely linked to the decline of (1) religious virtues and (2) the strict standards enforced by a society where strength and prudence is valued over greed and impulsive vanity.

all your premises are wrong, the world is not some abstraction you can reduce to the shit you learned in your philosophy 101 course.

observe the world and the people living in it.
create your hypothesis and try to test it.
draw whatever conclusions you can.

>people must be ruled
>people must be free

this is the tension that builds and collapses every great civilisation. a fleeting balance leaps progress forward

I eat meat, it's about 1/4 of my calories. 1/2 of my calories is vegetables and 1/4 of my calories are starchy vegetables.

1) Animals are killed in the collection of plants
2) You cannot get all the nutrients you need from plants alone, you MUST supplement if you are on a vegan diet.
3) We decend from omnivores.

Vegan does not mean healthy. There are a ton of processed vegan foods that will take you straight to diabetes town.

You wanna be healthy? Eat whole meats (organ meat included), dairy, fruits and vegetables, avoid anything that comes in a wrapper and has more than 1 ingredient.

You don't have an in home chef? Fucking pleb

The problem is humans are hypocrites about everything. The world you were told about when you were a a child is vastly different to the world experienced as an adult.

I've got nothing against eating meat or soley sticking to a vegetarian diet but including some debased ideology with your eating habits is stupidly hypocritical. Either be a full on Jain or shut the fuck up. We all know you're only doing it for the image and how others perceive your "uniqueness".

We dont decend from omnivores, we are omnivores.

Yes everyone should eat vegan diet and become weak numales. Please do.

I eat a strict !vegan diet. Meat, eggs, and cheese only. No pants. Plants are what my food eat.

Inb4 muh kidneys
Inb4 muh cholesterol

I am descended from my family, I am also my family.

>1) Animals are killed in the collection of plants

I'm surprised this argument has caught on. Animals are killed by combine harvesters when crops are harvested. These crops are grown 10x more than they need to be because we keep livestock that need to be fed. Eating meat means all the livestock animals are being slaughtered in addition to 10x more of the unlucky animals in the crop fields. If you really cared about this, the option would be to not eat meat.

>2) You cannot get all the nutrients you need from plants alone, you MUST supplement if you are on a vegan diet.

Only true of vitamin B12, which is extremely easy and cheap to produce and is already added to many foods and livestock feed. Fortifiying more foods would benefit society even if nobody was vegan, as B12 supplementation is better even for meat eaters than relying on meat for B12.

ars.usda.gov/news-events/news/research-news/2000/b12-deficiency-may-be-more-widespread-than-thought/

>3) We decend from omnivores.

Not an argument. Our furthest ancestors were herbivores who gradually become opportunist omnivores as they left the equator, as that allowed them to survive in areas where their main diet foods were rare. Omnivorous behavior doesn't mean all foods are equally healthy when eaten or that an omnivore needs to eat every kind of food that exists in order to survive, only that they have more food options. Some options are better than others. You wouldn't argue that we should eat donuts and candy just because we have the ability to digest it. It doesn't make sense to do that for meat either.

>didn't even address that most vegan diets aren't even healthy.

Checkmate vegans, i eat what you eat plus I eat meat, I also don't eat that processed garbage that you idiots can't seem to stop cramming down your gullet.

saved

It was a stupid point. I would agree that a vegan diet doesn't necessarily mean a healthy diet, which would be true of any type of diet. To say "most vegan diets aren't healthy" would require statistics, and diet comparisons usually favor vegan diets.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3967195/

>The use of indexing systems, estimating the overall diet quality based on different aspects of healthful dietary models (be it the US Dietary Guidelines for Americans or the compliance to the Mediterranean Diet) indicated consistently the vegan diet as the most healthy one.

I don't think I've seen someone more proud about not eating vegetables.

I'm really struggling to make sense of your arguments here.

Canines are present in some (see: gorillas, monkeys, etc.) - and incisors in most - herbivores, so neither are evidence that we are carnivorous. Sorry. If veganism were a stupid hippy meme you wouldn't be floundering so hard to present counterarguments. Greater and more intelligent men than you have tried and failed at that task I'm afraid.

>"ethical argument - it is unethical .."

You are assuming that animals in animal agriculture are living "good", worthwhile lives. This is obviously not the case. They suffer and they die, living a fraction of their potential age. If we are bringing them here to suffer, why is it a moral obligation to bring them here at all? This argument also obliges us to bring into actuality all the un-actualised animal lives. So it seems by extension that it is an ethical obligation to breed as many animals as is possible. A rather absurd conclusion.

>"environmental argument - humans create .."

The growth of plant based alternatives IS the most efficient system. We grow enough food for many times the world's population, but feed it to animal's instead. The energy is wasted as it is passed down the biomass pyramid and we are left with much less than we started with. The reason humans eat animal products is because the industry dictates that we do, not because of any freedom of choice. These products are subsidised by the government, who also give tax cuts and other luxuries to the meat/dairy/egg industry. You cannot tell me 2/3 of America is fat because they are following their "biological imperative". They are fat because this is profitable for the massive corporations who take advantage of our bad habits. Don't be ridiculous. I've seen better arguments from my 7 year old cousin.

>Also because the thought of eating flesh disturbs me on some primal level.
thought of eating flesh arrouses me on some primal level

god i love ribs, tearing the flesh straight off the bone and sucking on the ends to get marrow. i have them every year on my birthday, i eat a whole rack

the rest of the year i make do with wings, seeing a birds nest of tiny bones knowing every pair is just one animal that i could have gotten the same amount of protein and calories from just a single bird's breasts... its orgasmic

[Cont.]

["health argument - this is the most retarded shit .."]

Humans are, like our ancestral primate cousins (monkeys, apes, etc.), herbivores. There is an absolute mound of evidence in the scientific community in support of this. Here:

1. Ideal LDL cholesterol is only found in herbivorous (read: vegan) human populations -[sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0735109704007168] + [scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0066-782X2007000100006&lng=en&nrm=iso&tlng=en]

2. Carnivores don't suffer heart disease and other related ailments that we do which have to do with consumption of cholesterol and saturated fat (present practically exclusively in animal products) - [ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3603726/]

3. Humans don't require animal products according to the American Dietetic Association - [vrg.org/nutrition/2009_ADA_position_paper.pdf]

4. Humans don't have fat or protein receptors on their tongues like carnivores do - this is why meat is seasoned both in factory and on our plate so liberally [meatinstitute.org/index.php?ht=a/GetDocumentAction/i/48321] You would never season a ripe piece of fruit in the same way, indicating we have evolved to eat these types of foods instead.

5. Psychologically, the vast majority of humans don't have the capabilities to kill and eat animals raw. We find this thought intuitively repulsive, indicating we are far from "predators". Ripe fruit, on the other hand, we salivate over, indicating this is our ideal form of food.

6. Ideal BMI in America is only found in vegans. This shows our body is not tailored to eating animal products as being over ideal BMI is not natural - [ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2671114/]

7. The MOST healthy, and LONGEST LIVING, populations on Earth - the Okinawans and Adventist vegetarians - ate virtually NO animal products. [okicent.org/docs/anyas_cr_diet_2007_1114_434s.pdf]

Faggot, I can guarantee you I eat more vegetables than you daily. The difference is I don't eat processed garbage.

You know what's vegan? The steamed broccoli, mashed sweet potatoes, quinua, nuts, salads, wraps, that I eat daily.

I also eat bison, elk, deer, salmon, chicken, trout, some of which I fish or hunt myself.

If your diet REQUIRES that you eat a supplement, it is a bad diet, the end.

I don't give a shit if you are comparing diets to these garbage modern processed diets, I never said vegan wasn't better than them, I just said vegan sucks, just like all the diets you see out there.

So you eat a relatively healthy diet plus a carcinogenic substance, cool.

The majority of omnivorous americans are deficient in 8 nutrients. Most doctors would call it necessary for them to supplement. So would your same argument apply for diets including animal products?

A proper vegan diet would only require supplementation of B12 (and possibly vitamin D but this is only due to world location and equally applies to meat eaters) - in the wild we would get this from dirt on plants and fruits which is obviously washed away before we buy it in supermarkets. The reason it is present in meat is because of bacteria that is not as easily washed away.

The longest living and healthiest populations ate no or virtually no animal products: okicent.org/docs/anyas_cr_diet_2007_1114_434s.pdf

Also, veganism is a life choice (or rather, moral obligation) rather than a diet. No diet I know of calls for you to no longer purchase leather wallets or other non-food related items.

Spiritual, Health, Ethical and Environmental reasons

There seems to be literally no good reason to eat meat

>I don't like steak.
Why do you fuck girls if you're gay?

>They suffer and they die, living a fraction of their potential age
Lol. What is this "potential age" nonsense? Creatures of all kinds die short of "potential age" all the fucking time. Hell, left to their own devices, cattle won't make it to even the age we let them in the environment. And not like the cow is capable of differentiating one age from another. Nonsense.

>We grow enough food for many times the world's population, but feed it to animal's instead.
We don't grow enough food to give the world's population a balanced diet. Don't kid yourself. We feed cows mostly corn, grains, and certain greens not only because it's cheap, but because they can metabolize more nutrients from it (such as the full protein profiles of these veggies) than we can. It's what ruminants are born to do. We also cannot readily convert farmland used to produce animal feed to grow the kinds and volumes of plants needed to provide such a balanced diet, nor can we do so with land used to raise cattle. This isn't because of some agricultural oversight, this is because there are limitations to the production capabilities of certain parcels of land which can only be overcome by years of introduction of biomatter to the soils which also impacts local fauna and water systems.

Not the guy you responded to but your arguments are either moralistic to a fault or straight up misinformed here.

>If your diet REQUIRES that you eat a supplement, it is a bad diet, the end.

In many parts of the world, iodine has to be supplied through supplementation, usually through iodized salt. Some land just lacks iodine such that no natural diet will supply it in adequate amounts. It's not all black and white when it comes to nutrients and supplements.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iodised_salt

Meat comes with too many cons to eat just because you think there's something wrong with B12 supplementation.

DOWN WITH THE VEGAN AGENDA!

what the fuck m8

being vegan will literally kill you long-term
(unless you use a CRAP TON of artificial foods/supplements)

from Okinawans diet wiki
>Every part of the pig is eaten, including internal organs.

fuck off m8

>Yes everyone should eat vegan diet and become weak numales

kek, the only powerlifting athlete to represent the USA in the 2016 Olympics was vegan

youtube.com/watch?v=f2LYe4Gzmc4
Don't mind me, just destroying some bullshit health claims.

Steroids aren't vegan little buddy.

Why'd you leave out the previous sentence from that wiki article?

> Pork is highly valued, yet eaten very rarely

They actually are

Sorry,

the only reason people show good cholesterol/lipids on vegan diets is because they are literally wasting away

on a ultra low nutrient/kcal diet based on meats, you get exactly the same result when you are literally starving yourself (although you at least get some b12 and don't die eventually, as with a vegan diet)

most modern vegans living in cities eventually are FORCED to get medical treatment (which is in the form of eating a balanced diet)

Thanks for addressing each of my points individually and with citations, m8.

Did you even read the article? Right hand column is Okinawans, less than 1% of their calorific intake was from meat you fat fuck.

Also, I'll refer you to my other comment regarding supplementation:

because it doesn't matter, a vegan NEVER eats meat

they also eat fish, EVERY DAY

forgot to attach image

Somebody better tell that to this guy
youtube.com/watch?v=FX58PyQwrcI

but without that 1%, they would literally die

there was no need to address any of your other points, since they are pure bull shit

>The traditional diet also includes a tiny amount of fish (less than half a serving per day)

You're missing his point though

I didn't say Okinawans were vegan, just that they ate virtually no animal products and are the healthiest documented population. I'm sure if they'd actually reduced their meat consumption to 0 then they'd have been even healthier.

>Also, I'll refer you to my other comment regarding supplementation: (You)

That's my comment

he takes b12 INJECTIONS

and a hal-page list of other medications and supplements

with a balanced, lets say mediterranean diet he would still be squatting 3pl+ and living to 120

>but without that 1%, they would literally die

The only population that live longer than them are the Adventist vegetarians who eat 0 meat

no, that small percentage is what makes the entire difference between healthy and not healthy. they are absolutely not fucking vegan when they eat fish every single day

vegan is an idiotic meme

>but without that 1%, they would literally die
My god you're grasping at straws. And ffs did you really ignore AGAIN

>there was no need to address any of your other points, since they are pure bull shit
hahahaha fuck me, truly pathetic, imagine if a vegan resorted to this

>he takes b12 INJECTIONS
Non Vegans are deficient in b12, and livestock in western countries are artificial injected with it.

>and a hal-page list of other medications and supplements

He's 98

Yes.
That's literally why vegan diets work.
It's basically themed fasting with a shit ton of roughage nutrients and macros. Much of which, your body simply can not fully absorb from the plant material.

Vegans are merely reaping the benefits from strict fasting while having a full tummy.

Ever wonder why most starvation diets are all "EAT AS MANY VEGGIES AS YOU WANT BUT CUT BACK ON MEAT AND FRUIT!!" and why those diets are so successful?

i'm picturing you crying

are you crying?

just go to pubmed and do a search for vegan

every single fucking article is about how doctors try to keep them healthy/alive DESPITE their fucking idiotic diet

fuck, I meant

do you really want me to demolish all your fallacies?

>Greater and more intelligent men than you have tried and failed

If you're going to get baited by my rhetoric so quickly that you drag yourself down to high school debate level syllogisms 1. you're going to look like a brainlet to anyone bothering to read carefully 2. you will draw the ire of any rational person who sees you hiding behind empty language.

>see: gorillas, monkeys

both omnivores if presented with the opportunity.

What would be sufficient evidence to you that human beings are omnivorous? This is how you structure a simple rebutal, if there is no answer you can come up with, then your obsession with veganism is unfounded - since no refutation exists for it, it cannot be falsified, and is analogous a religious belief, one founded on faulty science and an unearned moral high-ground, these are characteristic traits of people who lean left politically and since we are experiencing a rather turbulent battle between the dogmas across the spectrum it puts you firmly in the camp of NOTTHEMAJORITYHERE.

>You are assuming that animals

Define good, worthwhile life. It seems implicitly you have defined it as duration and some nebulous utilitarian formula you glossed over. Utilitarianism is one of the many failed Philsophical offshots of the 19th century. I can go into a serious deconstruction of why it's flawed, or you can educate yourself in your own time, it leads to the prisoner's dilema and P = NP, and was quite useful in developing the Theory of Computation and early models for solving deadlock problems, LIFO, FIFO, stacks, heaps, memory. It's only relevancy to philosophy today is of historical interest, mostly the dangers of eugenicsas religion bleeding into science and state policy. Hence why the separation of church and state is stressed and reinforced in the US constitution, and Europe as a feudal theocracy was a warring continent for over 1000 years.

post any study, and I will refute it with fact

we already explained to you that the lipid / cardio benefits are completely unrelated to the vegan diet and can be reproduced with low kcal diets (tons of articles on this).
what is then the point of your "vegan" diet?

certainly not health.

morality? who cares about that?

My grandfather lived to 101 years old and only died because of an accident with a cow on his farm.
He was active, cognizant, healthy, and content.
He was an omnivore. He ate only what he grew and hunted/slaughtered. Rarely eating junk foods and the like.

I want to live almost as long as him and almost as well.

Yeah its called a market, commie

They need animals to make steroids.
Unless you mean that one company that PLANS on creating yam based steroids.

I'm just not ready to dedicate enough time and effort to eat 3000+ calories worth of plant based food. Not to mention constantly tracking micronutrients to avoid deficiencies.

I'd give it a go if I had a lot more spare time to fuck around with my diet.

growing/eating pigs are much more economical than almost any other option including beans, etc

in fact, some beans is the only thing that even comes close to competing with pigs

but we cannot survive on only beans

we can survive on only pig + milk

pigs are incredibly nutrient dense, unlike anything else that you can eat

in reality, contrary to what meme pseudoscience spouts, it is absolutely not feasible to feed the population of earth with only plants

it is perfectly feasible to feed everybody with pigs + some plants, even if the population doubled or tripled it would still work

basically, pigs are amazing

>we already explained

With no references

>to you that the lipid / cardio benefits are completely unrelated to the vegan diet and can be reproduced with low kcal diets (tons of articles on this).

Go ahead and do so, and not just articles about losing weight lowering lipids. The benefits of eating vegan go beyond calories and weight. Animal-sourced foods directly increase cholesterol levels, explaining why people who remove these from their diets have lower cholesterol/better heart health.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9006469

>I'm just not ready to dedicate enough time and effort to eat 3000+ calories worth of [food]. Not to mention constantly tracking micronutrients to avoid deficiencies.

What do you do now? Eat whatever is around and trust that you're getting all your micros without checking?

(contd)

I make the case that life itself is axiomatic, it's existence is a priori to it's persistence and must exist in that hierarchy. I hold the ultimate pacifist position that no living creature may harm another, though I do not impose this on others. I then conclude if I stop eating meat I am responsible for the infinite suffering of non-existence my choice would create for some delicious animal, so I choose to eat it, ensuring it dies, ensuring it existed. Terminating it's persistence to ensure it's existence.

>enviromental, growth of plant etc

the invention of fertilizer saw the greatest increase in agricultural productivity in 15,000+ thousand years. It's knock-on effects were to destroy the soil for future seed generations, and create the race condition we have now between super-disease strains resistant to pesticides and genetically enhanced crops resistant to the dieases. This has led to a massive reduction in biodiversity in the crops in question (Soy, Corn, Rice, Beans). The reason humans eat animal products is because of their nutrition and caloric density, making them far superior by weight to any other food on the planet. Example: Milk, Honey, Meat.

Corporations don't make people fat, people enter into voluntary agreements to purchase goods. Your problem is a general misunderstanding of economics, supply and demand, and what I mentioned previously- decline in social contracts for decency.

>floundering so hard to present counterarguments

burden of proof is on you to show it's a superior alternative. I cannot prove a negative, ie. Veganism is not good. I can only show why your arguments in favour for it easily fall apart. Which I have done, and you have refused to read closely enough.

see
youtube.com/watch?v=f2LYe4Gzmc4

there is no need when there are hundreds after a simple search on pubmed

what the fuck did you even post this other "study"? It's shit, and they should feel bad for writing that. Of course fat brits will get better lipids if they eat less (like removing some of the meat from their diet).

It can be addressed with the exact same argument as previously, just go on a diet and your lipids will be fine, on ANY diet.

There are no other known "health benefits" from vegan diets, in any acclaimed study.

It is very clear that you are not familiar with the medical field as a whole. So my actual advice to you, is to stop trying to give bad advice to other people.

There are much better diets with MUCH stronger links to longevity than vegan meme diets.

Pretty much.

Every time I've bothered to count a regular day it comes up okay as far as micros go. It's not hard if you eat a good varied diet every day. Unfortunately it's not that easy for vegans. It's also a lot more difficult to consume the same amount of calories.