Soup Veeky Forums, I'm currently doing SS, but I also want to add some cardio and accesory work. My question is:
- What type of cardio is best? I know you're supposed to do it on off days, but should I go for regular cardio, HIIT, swimming? We have a pool at the gym
-should I do my accesory work during my regular lifting days or during cardio days? If during cardio days, before or after?
Lastly, I want to do accesory work for shoulder and biceps as well as forearms. Besides curls, lat raises and incline bench, is there anything you recommend? My friend told me to do 8 x failure of hanging from a chin-up position for forearms
If you want a routine with more cardio and isolation work, then do that. SS plus extras and cardio is just going to make you stall out early.
Joseph Watson
Nah, its fine to do a modified SS with some accesory work and cardio. The only thing wrong with it is that it'd tire you out more during the recovery period and require extra callories, but if you train muscle groups you didn't train in your main days at relatively light weights and eat enough food after doing *light* cardio, you should be ok.
Jacob Parker
>What type of cardio is best? doesn't matter
>I know you're supposed to do it on off days you can do it anytime you want but i would avoid doing it before lifting because you will perform worse. afterwards is fine
>should I do my accesory work during my regular lifting days or during cardio days? after your main compounds on lifting days
>I want to do accesory work for shoulder and biceps as well as forearms shoulder contains 3 delts. just look up some of the best exercises for each one. for biceps i would prefer chinups so you can hit both your back and biceps at the same time. this way you don't have to really do curls. for foreams deadlift will work it plenty otherwise you could do farmer walks if you want to train your grip in addition to forearms or even rack pulls. for pure forearm size gains nothing beats wrist roller.
>My friend told me to do 8 x failure of hanging from a chin-up position for forearms that's called dead hang and it's a pretty decent forearm exercise especially if you do it weighted.
>is there anything you recommend? youtube.com/watch?v=nuHJYKUapZw and ab wheel or hanging leg raises every workout. also do more volume after you are done with your main exercise. for example when you are done with doing OHP for 3x5 use around 70% of the weight you just used and do 2-3 sets of 12-15 reps with it. do this for ohp, bench and deadlift. you could also do it for squat if you want.
when you are warming up do paused reps at the bottom for around 2-3 seconds on squat (paused squat) and bench (spoto press). this will help you a lot down the road.
also do OHP and bench every day but still alternate which one gets intensity day meaning if your day A is bench, squat and deadlift and day B is OHP, squat, deadlift you would do
A bench 3x5 squat 3x5 deadlift 1x5 OHP 5x5 at around 70% of previous work max
B OHP 3x5 squat 3x5 deadlift 1x5 bench 5x5 at around 70% of previous work max
1/2
Jonathan Bell
2/2
the reason for this is that SS lacks in upper volume and both bench and OHP really improve with volume.
i know that at first you are doing 3x5 for deadlift and once the weight gets heavy you switch to 1x5. once that happens you can do the same for deadlift. do 3-5 sets of 5 reps at around 70% on the other two days.
as assistance goes i would strongly suggest chinups/pullups and dips (if you don't have shoulder problems).
Matthew Richardson
Alright, I'll start swimming. I've always wanted to anyways, that should be good cardio that works out the body a bit, too.
I've been doing chin ups (I'm too weak to do many yet, though), farmer's walks, lat raises and bicep curls for accesory work. Light weight mostly, just because I'm targeting particularly weak muscle groups. I'm still a begginer and had to take a step back weight wise to learn proper form, too (And I've unfortunately missed the gym 2 sessions in a row due to Gastroentritis)
I do have shoulder problems and it fucks me up. I have hypermobile joints and it really sucks when I do certain exercises that put strain or weight on the shoulders. My doctor told me to do high rep/low weight exercises, but idk whether to trust her since she also told me to do crossfit, which is horrible for your joints. I just want to continue SS and hope my joints will be ok.
Jose Hughes
just don't do too much shit when you are doing SS. SS is meant to get your strong fast and if you do too much assistance work you might slow that progress. just start with chinups and see how it goes. if you're progressing fine after a week then add 1 more exercise and repeat the cycle.
Joshua Martinez
Alright, I'll take it easy. I get the point of SS, but I wanted to add a small ammount of accesory stuff for my weakest muscle groups (forearms and shoulders) I just didn't wanna go too far with it. I'm also doing it partially to avoid Trex mode.
Tyler Roberts
>What type of cardio is best? I know you're supposed to do it on off days, but should I go for regular cardio, HIIT, swimming? We have a pool at the gym Depends on your goal; Cardio is essentially more accumulated work that helps you burn extra energy, and avoid eating more than your daily TDEE to fascilitate fat loss 15-20 minutes of moderate intensity cardio like rowing with a set distance (i.e. try for around 2500 to 3000m in 15 minutes) is the go to prescribed to me by my coach, but if you want "functional" cardio that can be applied to your lifting, then HIIT is good, and so is swimming, which engages your entire body, so you can do more work in less time- i.e. 3-4 laps across non stop with 30 seconds of rest in between for 4 or 5 sets on your off days >-should I do my accesory work during my regular lifting days or during cardio days? If during cardio days, before or after? Lifting should be done on lifting day, save cardio for its own day, especially if you're gonna swim or do some other form of HIIT; instead dedicate the time you might have devoted to doing accessories to stretching instead, both before, and after. >Lastly, I want to do accesory work for shoulder and biceps as well as forearms. Besides curls, lat raises and incline bench, is there anything you recommend? My friend told me to do 8 x failure of hanging from a chin-up position for forearms >biceps chin ups preacher curls >shoulders single arm db press because BB OHP somewhat cut your ROM >forearms more deadlifts wrist curls if you absolutely must
Daniel Wilson
Thanks for the advice, but you've actually reminded me of something very important: Grip strength. Mine fucking sucks. I can sort of cope when doing diddylifts but using a mixed grip, but I need to improve it anyways. I struggle to even put the clips on the bar. Any advice, or should I simply use a gripmaster or something?
Also, is there a good way to test roughly how good you are at cardio before you set a goal? I know with weights you obviously add an objective ammount of weight and can test how much you can comfortably lift, but its not as simple with cardio. Bear in mind I´m high up above sea level btw.
Joseph Sullivan
I struggled with grip strength when I first started, too, literally just do more deadlifts and your grip will improve over time- mixed grip is fine, especially if you want to compete in PL down the road, just remember that as your mixed diddly goes up to hit the double overhand for accessories to keep yourself in check. If your hands are big enough, or if your gym actually has standard olympic circumference bars instead of the "fat" bars I've noticed some commercial gyms use, I'd recommend giving hook grip (tucking your thumb into your grip) a try. It'll hurt, and your thumbs will probably feel like they're getting crushed, but once you've acclimated, you should definitely be able to add poundage to your grip capacity by using it. As far as cardio goes, after picking an exercise, the easiest thing to do to determine your baseline is to just do it. Wanna row? Row for 10 minutes for as much as you can, and see how far you went- aim to always go at least that distance or better each time Swim? Just start doing laps until you can't do laps anymore- how many did you do? aim to do no less than that many each time- whether in a row, or using the start/stop HIIT approach
Henry Walker
don't train grip or forearms every day or it will get worse. treat it like every other muscle and allow it time to recover
Dominic Thomas
Anything you'd recomend for a thicker neck?
Caleb Hernandez
>but I also want to add some cardio not going to work you won't be able to maintain your linear progression, unless you're ready to eat yet another 1000+cals per day, and even then it's not guaranteed you'll recover in time
>and accesory work there is accessory work in SS 2 months in you start doing dips, chin-ups and curls
but who am I telling all of this? when people say they're doing SS they're not actually adhering to the program and just do what they feel is right, which is wrong
Jordan Campbell
1k fucking extra call on cardio days for a lil bit of HIIT? Fucking hell mate
Christopher Lee
He is a lying cunt unless he thinks cardio = training for a fuckign marathon
Camden Smith
what? you think you're just gonna burn 300cals and raise your TDEE by 200cals by doing cardio and KEEP GAINING MUSCLE WITHOUT EATING?
there's a reason skinnyfags are adviced to do GOMAD they have no idea how to eat 3000+ cals a day to maintain linear progression
you will not, I repeat, you will NOT be able to increase your lifts by 5lbs every single workout (maintain linear progression) if you start doing cardio and/or don't eat enough end of story you can try, I certainly tried it does not work
Thomas Cox
but cardio is good for u user
And so? I'll just eat more, if that's the case. I'm only going to be doing a small ammount of HIIT cardio, which is what most people recommend for SS.
And there's nothing wrong with doing a modified SS routine, as long as you plan it carefully and check with more experienced people (like the other user ITT) to see whether or not its recommended to do those particular exercises.
Michael Perry
...
Sebastian Gonzalez
This is only true if you're a skellington/aspiring powerlifter. If you're fat and trying to unfat, SS+Cardio is ideal training.
Lucas Diaz
>but cardio is good for u user I know, I've been doing it for 2 years but I should've gotten the hint after half a year, I was stuck
>And so? I'll just eat more you're sure you can eat enough for linear progression (3000cals+) aswell as compensate for cardio (another 1000cals)? you'll have to eat 4000cals a day, good luck with that and then it's not even guaranteed you'll recover, as I said I'm not sure if more nutrients necessarily result in sufficient recovery you can only build a house so fast, no matter how many bricks you have
>which is what most people recommend for SS well most people do it wrong, completely and I was certainly one of them
there's a reason people will doubt you when you reach a 3 plate squat in 5 months on SS because you did it right and they did not it's perfectly doable, it's not even hard, but you have to do it right
>And there's nothing wrong with doing a modified SS routine of course there's not, but you or I don't have the credentials to judge that
>and check with more experienced people (like the other user ITT) hahahahahahaha
you should get it out of your head that Veeky Forums is infalliable just because they're not as affected by the generic fitness industry
Jaxson Lewis
I am indeed fat.
I don't have much control over my diet RN due to living in a residence where it's all fully catered. all I can do is eat weight gaining powder and supplement that with nuts, bread, bear, tapas, avocados, etc. It's not hard to bulk when livin in Spain for a year. But 1k for cardio, you sure? Even just a 30 min HIIT session?
Jeremiah Davis
Still ndtp
Even at SS barebones, you still need to eat shitloads for recovery and progression.
Op should accept he is a beginner and do the beginner programs as prescribed, then later move onto madcows/texts method/ppl or whatever which allows accessories to be added.
Or he can waste time doing a sub optimal routine. Someone who does SS/SL for 6months-1year and then move onto intermediate routines will look both better and be stronger than the guy who wanted to do everything at once. I've seen it happen way too many times, but it's not like most of you will listen anyway.
Robert Thomas
Rowing
Hudson Baker
I can't focus too much on a specific routine anyways due to diet issues. This year will unfortunately produce sub-optimal gains regardless, until I move back to my house and am In full control.
Evan Gutierrez
Well you can go ahead and try it, if you're completely untrained you'll still make the cut and increase your lifts every workout for a short while
but you'll quickly plateau and nothing you do will help you out you'll have to drop the cardio and rest, properly, then the train keeps going
I'd argue you get your lifts up there first, then you do all the cardio you want it will make it that much easier, considering you will have a lot more muscle mass, meaning your TDEE will increase and you'll have an easier time losing fat
gaining muscle AND losing fat at the same time are not compatible for anyone who lifted for more than 2 months and if you do SS, you gain at a rate of 5lbs per workout - because you can - because it's the fastest progression - and you'll worry about getting below 20% bodyfat after that
Lucas Moore
I'm kinda cucked this year due to diet issues anyways, since I can't control what I eat for now.
Damnit, is GOMAD really a good idea? A personal trainer at my gym with a master's in Nutrition told me 1 litre is already pushing it (which is what I currently have) and it's full of unhealthy shit.
Eli Adams
Why the fuck are you so obsessed with the thought that every cardio, even if iz's just 15 minutes burns a thousand calories?
OP, you'll be fine with what was suggested ITT. When I started out I did SS with lat raises and curls on OHP days, and skull crushers and chinups on bench days. Also I went running two times a week and it still worked fine. Just don't overdo it and make sure to be in a calorie surplus. Godspeed.
Henry Sullivan
>I'm currently doing SS, but I also want to add Don't.
Jayden Morris
>Damnit, is GOMAD really a good idea? are you a skinny auschwitz survivor who can't stuff his face with meat?
then no, GOMAD is for those people, not the fat guys, fat guys know how to eat and eat well
It's not a zero sum game you're not taking into account that doing cardio consistently also consistently raises your TDEE plus whatever you burn while you do cardio
plus it's yet another type of stress on the body that he has to recover from if you're superman you can get away with it
chances are he is just an average guy though
>When I started out I did SS... and? what's the result? what are your stats and how long did it take you to reach those?
Mason Gomez
This is what I looked like a month ago. I'm OP.
Do I do GOMAD? I don't think it's needed.
Caleb Clark
well, can you EAT? you don't look like a GOMAD patient
if you can eat 3000cals a day you'll be fine without GOMAD
Anthony Walker
>"I can't be bothered to find a way: the post."
So you think customising a routine would be better?
Are you homeless or just lazy, which is it?
Luke Smith
I live in a residence and can't cook my own food. I'm in a dorm where they make food for us. They usually give you a salad or soup, a main course and a desert.
I COULD eat everyone's leftovers 1hour after they leave for extra food and also eat more than a reasonable ammount by eating all the bread and milk, I guess.
The food they serve me at my residence, plus I guess 20 extra euro's worth of food a week. I spend about a euro every day on a litre of milk, plus I buy avocados and nuts.
James Murphy
Fine, I'll bite. My stats arent impressive, because after I reached 1/2/3/4 I focused on aesthetics and couldn't be bothered to make serious strength gains. However, I reached that doing my version of SS in a year, which again isnt that impressive, but I couldn't care less. Started out as a 55kg skelleton and am now at 84kg after two and a half years.
I'm still not convinced about your numbers game there, since that little amount of cardio wont raise his TDEE by a thousand. I agree that it's more stress he has to recover from, but unless he's doing two hours of daily cardio, I think he'll be fine.
It's all good bro, how are you're goals coming along?
Jaxon Rodriguez
> I've seen it happen way too many times
Where? On here? People you know irl? How many people's progress have you personally observed from beginner to intermediate level to be an authority on the matter? Just wondering
Aaron Howard
I wish I could do special cardio with Hime, if you know what I mean.
Andrew Perry
I wasted months Doing SS. Highly recommend to switching to PPL OP.
Jordan Johnson
I don't quite understand. Whatever this "special cardio" is, she's a girl and will only hold you back.
Luis Sullivan
You obviously have no way to verify who I am or what I do. Just the same as every other user on this board. To answer your question: -Online testimonies, results generate authority and popularity -History, even the lifters of the 70s/80s followed Reg Park / Starr routines which share similarities with SS and SL. Guess what, compound lifts and sets of 5. I guess you know better than Starr / Reg / Arnie / Zane when they call for such programming. -Personal testimonies. A few irl friends and work buddies wanted to get into lifting seriously and came to me for advice, I point them in this kind of programming direction. The guy who does it properly in contrast to the guy who thinks arms/legs/chest brosplits are the way forward will lift more and look better. -most routines from bb.com and the magazines are sponsored bullshit. Ever notice how the authors and "experts" look and have always looked like utter dogturd? Splits sell well because people are pussies and refuse to squat and deadlift so they look for an alternative. The primary objective of these authors is to generate revenue. Thats it.
What's the best way to build fantastic legs? Go squat 400lbs for a set of 10. What's the fastest way of squatting 400lbs for sets of 10? Squat 550lbs for a set of 5.
One thing successful bodybuilders have in common is that they are all strong as hell. Not as strong as Eddie Hall, but a hell of a lot stronger than normies who won't drop their fucking tricep accessories and complain about their 'shit genetics' in favour of getting their bench up to 400lbs.
I genuinely hope this changes someone's mind before they do something dangerous like waste their first year of noob gains because they decided to copy Arnold's pre - Mr Olympia bicep routine.
Angel Hughes
>SS >for beginner >can't even do squats without weight
Owen Peterson
What manga?
Owen Sanders
Danberu Nan Kiro Moteru
Dominic Cruz
I can only do 55kg after a month. I started on 40kg.
ull make it.
Liam Allen
Tanks mayn
John Lopez
3x5 Squat 3x5 Ohp 1x5 Deadlift 2x8 Pull ups 2x8 Dips 2x10 Hanging knee raise 2x10 ez bar curls 2x12 Rear felt flyes 2x12 Side lateral raises
3x5 Squat 3x5 Bench 1x5 Power Cleans 2x8 Pull ups 2x8 Dips 2x10 Hanging knee raise 2x10 ez bar curls 2x12 Rear felt flyes 2x12 Side lateral raises
Oliver Parker
Swallow thicker cock
Cooper Lewis
Wtf, i love cock now
Easton Stewart
Always see 1x5 Deadlift is that really 1 set of 5 reps ?
William Cruz
Not counting the warmups, yep. It's also in PPL routines, though I used to start with an AxBxAxx routine where you would do it 3x5 once or twice a week.
David Bennett
Yeah. But when you get to 2plate upwards the warm ups are decent.
I meant to say 3x5 Cleans too, until it gets heavy then switch to 5x3
Owen Powell
Holy shit lol
Mason Martinez
Are... are you retarded?
Blake Adams
Yeah not impressive, I'm pretty weak. Just need to be persistent though.
Benjamin Baker
dumbbell shrugs
Luke Gutierrez
Swap between different kinds of cardio. Doing only one kind is bad a idea. Do some intervall training, some sprint endurance (rarely, you need a bullshit amount of time to recover) and some jogging/running.
