How valid/invalid is the argument for holocaust denial?

/thread

It's only worrying if you swallow the propaganda and ignore the other mentions of other figures that are conveniently left out.

anyone got that image debunking the newspapers theory?

what's the number of Jews that need to have not died in order for the existence of Israel to be unjust?

The creation of Israel has nothing to do with the Holocaust...

This one?

God bless you user

I made a thread on here a few days ago simply asking how many people think it did happen and how many think it didnt happen for there is a lot of evidence supporting both arguments.
Nothing in history is portrayed as bad as the holocaust and there is A LOT of evidence suggesting it didn't happen. When you look at other atrocities in history none of them have evidence suggesting it didn't happen, only the holocaust does and makes you start to warm yourself up to that it was a lie.

>le "neutral" stormfag

>Yes, just like every other historical event.
Yes because there is so much evidence to back up that satlin didn't kill 20 million of his people.
That Americans didn't enslave blacks.
That the japanese massacred millions of Chinese.
That Romans genocided the pictish.
The holocaust is exactly the same they were just poor little jews that got picked on by evil nazis >:(

I've never been on stormfront.
What i just said was a good argument and you can't say that isn't a good argument.
Do you actually believe the jews got genocided by germans just because germans were evil?
Is that what you honestly believe?

>A LOT of evidence suggesting it didn't happen
Could you point us to the evidence?

No, it is worrying because it is a blatant lie that is proven false, but still repeated today. Things like that makes you start to question other things given as facts.

>Do you actually believe the jews got genocided by germans just because germans were evil?
How else would you explain it?

I'm not going to get into it with you because you will just spit it back in my face and call me a retard because you are close minded.
This is Veeky Forums no one can have a sensible discussion.
Just go look up the first meaning of a holocaust in there you will find the door to the truth.

...

yikes

WTF I love Stormfags now

I'm not from stormfront.
I don't really like the idea of National socialism.
I just support the truth.

Okay then. Sorry for wasting your time.

Any other examples in history of "victims" of genocide emerging much more powerful after the event?

>Haha how could someone believe such obvious falsehood, that never happened
>What's that? The Nazis had specific system on what combinations to burn corpses, had people lined up and shot at random, sewed twin children together, and made lampshades out of human skin? How horrible, I can't believe that totally happened! Thank God you got sent out of that death camp for health reasons, or we never would've known!

less than 6 million died. Enough said.

only 1-2 million died. The numbers are exaggerated in order to create the prosperous nation of Israel to secure the existence of jewish people.

the RPF taking over Rwanda and driving most of the Hutus into the DRC

That's okay.
I hope you find out the truth one day.

Here's the so called 'original pic' btw

This has been debunked ages ago. Try again. 4-7 million was the estimate for the number of Jews living in Eastern Europe who were at risk from Pogroms during WW1. Stormfags cherrypick articles that show the 6 million number to make it out to be some kind of prophetic number to Jews.

Yeah, sure, let's see

>I've seen some worrying mentions of the '6 million' figure written long before the second world war. So we can conclude that at least the 6-million number is a lie.
Here we see classical start of discussion. Just not in form of infograph.
Here is is answered. Now, the next thing is Stormfag moving goalposts. That's why they are so disliked here. They can't take on discussion on one thing, and just move to another.
And here you are, with >Just go look up the first meaning of a holocaust in there you will find the door to the truth.
Interesting. A while ago you were so sure about newspapers and 6million, and
>About the rest? Beats me.
And now you bring "the rest" back, as the "truth".
So you are either Stormfag, or retard who can't do research on his own and few Stormfag propaganda pics were enough to "brainwash" you.

the original had the standing guy removed to be less graphic

...

...

You guys are beyond help. Just think for a while.
>Newspaper deleted half naked and starving prisoner from a photo! It confirms that... uh... oh...

I don't give a fuck if it happened or not but the fact that you can't question it is already giving me doubts whether it happened or not.

No one bats an eye when some people deny the nanking massacre but when someone deny the holocaust everyone loses their shit

The naked man was actually removed in the newspaper print due to the prude editor's squeamishness taking over his reporting of the holocaust when it comes to showing an emaciated, naked victim covering his modesty with some clothing. So much so, that in the supposedly original newspaper clipping, the first bunk post from the right (not visible in the photo with the inmate in the foreground) is actually missing its base, compared to the ones left of it.
holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.co.at/2016/07/the-denier-logic-at-its-finest-famous.html
So while we have proof of a newspaper editor doctoring an original image available in an enlarged format in the archive, what exactly does this prove? If Simon Toncman was added in, we would first have to find the original print of this famous photo without him (instead of just the pic in the newspaper), as well as the original photo where he has been taken from (so that he could be copy-pasted into the famous photo above), which also no denier has ever been able to find, and in any case, the collage would have only proven that someone was trying to emphasize the very real emaciation that affected most victims found in the liberated camps - which is something no sensible (oxymoron!) holocaust denier disputes in the first place.

But the opposite is the case here: the foreground person was removed, so that the image would pass the censor, and in fact LESS of the holocaust's grim reality be shown to the public. All this "proves" is that American media were DOWNplaying holocaust atrocities to the civilian populace, rather than the opposite which deniers allege the press of doing. Thanks...I guess?

Whataboutism. And you are wrong.

Are you merely pretending to be retarded?

>The Holocaust never happened and the Nazis were good guys, I wish they returned so we could cleanse the Jews.
This kind of thread, every Goddamn time.

>I don't give a fuck if it happened or not but the fact that you can't question it is already giving me doubts whether it happened or not.
Stop this stupid fucking tired old meme. Questioning the holocaust is not illegal in any country on the planet, else every school kid asking their teacher something they didn't quite grasp, would be in the slammer. Denying, is in some.
Secondly, if you look at the countries in the world, the amount of them that have these laws is pathetic in number. Coincidentally, these countries are also those who were most affected under the Nazi dictatorship. Maybe the only political agenda here is something called "Never Again"? How about that.

And in these few countries where denying or grossly downplaying the death toll of the holocaust is a punishable offense, in these very same non-islamic countries, it is also a punishable offense to e.g. slander the prophet Muhammad with allegations of bestiality or pedophilia or raise your right hand in a 45° angle in public, or display Nazi symbols for recreational or commercial purposes, or call someone a nigger or post on social media that all refugees should drown in the Mediterranean. People have gone to jail in these countries for all these offenses: It's called generic hate speech laws. You'd only have a point if saying anything and everything were perfectly legal, where true freedom of speech existed except when it came to denying the holocaust, but deniers cannot point to a single country where such laws exist.

1)The Einsatzgruppen were an anti-terrorist organization, charged with rooting out communists and terrorists.
2)The Nuremberg trials didn't operate according to standard rules of evidence by their own admission. Many were tortured in order to admit to their crimes as well.
3)Gee, it's almost as if most people involved in the supposed Holocaust were wither killed or tortured for testimonies, making them less likely to recant and risk more torture (See Rudolf Höss).
4)Nice ad hominem.
5)In order to gain the sympathy needed to persuade the Allies to give them Israel.
6)Gas chambers, obviously. Clearly, there is literally nothing else that "special treatment" could mean besides that. I myself regularly get gassed to death and lampshades are made out of my skin at my local day spa.
7)Have you never heard of barbers? That hair had to be deloused before being used.
8)The load was terrorists. They were processed, as in registered in the German prison system. You know, like every other country does?
9)Apparently you have never heard of rationing either.
10)Nor typhus.
11)Either changed their identities to hide from the Nazis or killed by the Soviets, who might I remind you killed or deported over a million people in Poland alone. Once they were over the Iron Curtain, trying to reach their relatives meant risking death.
(1/2)

12)It's not outside food, it's inside food. Czechostowa was within the borders of the GG, which was part of Germany, retard.
13)For delousing.
14)They were clearly gassed in the death camp which they never arrived in. Oh wait
15)Yes.
16)Most of those documents were handily "discovered" years after the war, including the infamous Wannsee minutes, which weren't found until 1947, two years after the war ended, even though they were supposedly there the whole time!
17)"The evacuation of Jews." Oh no, how horrifying! Clearly he meant genocide and not, you know, evacuation! Curse you Schlomo, you have foiled me again!tler was going to deport them all to either Madagascar or Palestine.
18)The keyword here is "in Europe". Hi
19)Aktion T4 refers to the supposed killings of the disabled. It has nothing to do with the Holocaust, which was the supposed killing of Jews.
20)>Source: Jewgle
You're not even trying anymore. Come back when you have a primary source.
21)Are you seriously so brainwashed you believe the only reason for signing an NDA is because you're participating in genocide? Guess my job at the Mergers&Acquisitions department is actually ordering masturbation machines for Jewish death camps.
Nice try though, shill.

it's illegal to question the crimes of the Khmer Rogue in Cambodia
it's illegal to question the Holodomor in Ukraine
did those happen?

>believing the jews are harmless good guys and germans are evil
>2018

>This is literally the same shit posted in yesterday's thread, which got debunked
>LITERALLY
>THE SAME COPY-PASTED SHIT
nice try goblino

Today I will remind them.
>imgur.com/a/725A7
>imgur.com/gallery/iNYHW
>imgur.com/gallery/tq9IF
>imgur.com/gallery/2qAgl
>rationalwiki.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial
>reddit.com/r/ShitWehraboosSay/comments/3kprm0/the_greatest_story_never_told_for_good_reason/
>holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.ie/2012/10/index-of-published-evidence-on.html
>holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.ie/2017/06/debunking-david-coles-auschwitz-video.html

Honestly, I don't really care. But the fanatical defence of even minute details such as exact numbers, even though there seems to be conflicting evidence, is also very strange.

How do I achieve this physique?

No, the number is estimated between 5.5-6.5 million. Auschwitz alone had a capacity to cremate a million people per year, and indeed 1.1 million died there during the camp's existence.

...

>I don't really care
You clearly aren't interested in having an actual argument.

nice to see my image being reposted

Why would we have an argument with you when you will just call us stormfag neo nazis for denying it?

If you don't want to be called a Stormfag then don't act like one.

because that's what stormfags neo nazis do, denying the holocaust

Do each Stormfag really think he is the center of the world
>I happened to learn about holohoax, quick, I must go and share this, the world has to know truth! It's hard to be first on such kind of mission, but I will do my best
>Oh noes they answered my delusions in one minute! They must have foreseen this, it's just part of the conspiracy.

>The Einsatzgruppen were an anti-terrorist organization

They have restarted the thread on /pol/ conerning Holocaust denial, you can lurk there and see how moronic things get

you have to add board name to >>>
if you want cross link to work

...

Yes, because I don't really care, I just came to share my viewpoint and the thread erupted in paranoia and religious defence.

Example of paranoia. How can you be so fanatically sure of even the most minute details? Why is the holocaust sacred?

>denying jewish conspiracies makes you a stormfag
You sound just like the jews "Don't say the truth or i'll call you a bad name!"
Same for you Hamish.

>Why is the holocaust sacred?
I notice you avoided answering this

>everyone who doesnt share my views is a JOO

>1)The Einsatzgruppen were an anti-terrorist organization, charged with rooting out communists and terrorists.
The Germans applied the term "Terrorist" pretty loosely. It could mean a fucking passing balloonist who just happened to be in the area.

>2)The Nuremberg trials didn't operate according to standard rules of evidence by their own admission. Many were tortured in order to admit to their crimes as well.
Interesting how out of thousands of witnesses not one of them has withdrawn their confession.

>5)In order to gain the sympathy needed to persuade the Allies to give them Israel.
Myth. The Balfour Declaration was a thing. The Jews didn't need to stage some elaborate conspiracy to get their own country.

>9)Apparently you have never heard of rationing either.
"Rationing" does not mean starving people when there is ample food to be distributed.

>16)Most of those documents were handily "discovered" years after the war, including the infamous Wannsee minutes, which weren't found until 1947, two years after the war ended, even though they were supposedly there the whole time!
How the fuck would you find them during the war when they're in enemy hands?

>17)"The evacuation of Jews." Oh no, how horrifying! Clearly he meant genocide and not, you know, evacuation! Curse you Schlomo, you have foiled me again!tler was going to deport them all to either Madagascar or Palestine.
The Madagascar plan was a death sentence anyway. Btw the final solution is so named because they came to it after the mass deportations became impracticle

>19)Aktion T4 refers to the supposed killings of the disabled. It has nothing to do with the Holocaust, which was the supposed killing of Jews.
Aktion T4 is a part of the Holocaust.

>You're not even trying anymore. Come back when you have a primary source.
Says while providing not a single source of his own. Nice try.

No you are just acting like one by calling me a neo nazi as an insult.
If you were going to sit there and say i disagree with what you are saying and i believe the holocaust happened i would simply say okay, wouldn't call you a jew.
Grow up.

I haven't read the thread because for the nth-time, I don't care about this. I just find it fascinating that the holocaust is a sacred thing that if you even show a glimmer of doubt about exact numbers, people go completely bananas. THAT is suspect if anything.

/pol/ really is this fucking dumb

so the Cambodian genocide and the Holodomor are also sacred too?

>If you even show a glimmer of doubt about exact numbers
By "showing glimmer of doubt" you mean screeching it was 1/20 because of some number in rancom IRC telegraph?

But you didn't provide any point of discussion on your own. You just used some Stormfag propaganda and you are surprised, that people here are calling you Stormfag. The only thing sure and sacred for everyone is that you Sir are retarded.

No, I love to BTFO tankies and prove the Holodomor happened as well. But tankies are usually smarter than you Stormtards in the sense that they don't like to bring up the topic and try to pretend it never happened more than omission than actual denial.

But you fucking idiots are the ones starting Holocaust denial threads EVERY FUCKING DAY. If it wasn't for you we wouldn't even talk about it.

That's my point, they aren't. If someone said that the official figures of the Cambodian genocide were incorrect, nobody would care. At most you'd get a calm discussion that would conclude with "I agree" or "I disagree". Do the same for the Holocaust and you'll get yelled at by x-amount of rabid people defendind the smallest detail fanatically. It's fucking weird.

Huh? I just said I don't fully believe the six million number, that is all I said, the rest is rabid screeching and paranoid conjecture.

I didn't use any propaganda, I just said "I don't trust the six million number". You are still screeching rabidly about this.

Why are you guys so fucking weird about this?

>If someone said that the official figures of the Cambodian genocide were incorrect, nobody would care. At most you'd get a calm discussion that would conclude with "I agree" or "I disagree".
except in the country where people were actually victimized by the Khmer Rouge, really makes you think huh?

Am I arguing with German jews now? You weren't a victim of the holocaust.

>I didn't use any propaganda, I just said "I don't trust the six million number". You are still screeching rabidly about this.
Why are you lying?
>I've seen some worrying mentions of the '6 million' figure written long before the second world war.

You can't be more obnoxious.

people from all over Europe were victims of the Holocaust, and I am giving you a calm discussion

I would dispute some commie retard trying to deny the Khmer Rouge genocide. Maybe you wouldn't because you lack the knowledge to do so.

The main victim were jews and POW's, an it was 70+ years ago now. The Cambodian genocide was far more recent. There's no reason for people to be hot-blooded about the Holocaust, it was too long ago.

>t. American - the post

That's literally the same thing.

No you wouldn't, at least not this rabidly (and why bring in politics to this?). No one would care, and you know it.

Again, why are you guys so fucking weird about this?

I don't think anybody here is hot blooded user.

>No you wouldn't
Clearly you haven't lurked in this board long enough.

>It didn't happen but it must happen again.

>The main victim were jews and POW's
You think the Holocaust is all that the Nazis did? They enslaved millions of people, massacred entire towns, killed off much of the Polish intelligentsia and kidnapped Polish children

>That's literally the same thing.
Eh, so we are again at "you are the retard" part
Just because you are denying (or really don't know), that you are using Stormfag propaganda it doesn't mean we won't be able to recognize it.
And no, it's no the same thing.
>I don't trust six million number
This is fine, but you need to specify why. If you don't, then get the fuck out of here, because on it's own it's not the argument.
BUT
>I've seen some worrying mentions of the '6 million' figure written long before the second world war.
Is an argument. And old and classic one. It bases on Stormfag propaganda, and was answered here.

Ok? War is bad, the Japs did similar things, the Russians enacted a brutal revenge, the Allies firebombed cities, but the only thing that gets such a rabid response is the holocaust for some reason. That is what I find so strange.

I refuse to belive that all people in this thread who are currently having a hissy-fit are Polacks or German jews whos grandmother was killed by the Germans.

>M'lady

Nice whataboutism.

>the Allies firebombed cities
Not a war crime.

>but the only thing that gets such a rabid response is the holocaust for some reason. That is what I find so strange.
You find it strange that people care about literally the worst genocide to occur on European soil in history?

>Whataboutism
>derailing thread to ad persona
Gee, why do we hate Stormfags again?

There was no regime in World War II that was as bad as the Fascist, Darwinist regime of Nazis. Trust me, the good guys won.

Nowadays we worry about intellectual things like loss of faith, and worrying dogma related to scientific understanding. But back then the struggle was intellectual as well. In the sense that we really didn't want the world to be conquered by a regime which was so terrifyingly fascist like Hitler's Nazi engine.

Their rate of growth was severe. If it hadn't been for Britain holding on for dear life while they brought America into the war, that war might have actually been won by Nazi Germany. A lot of people think they didn't stand a chance against Russia. They're wrong. There's a reason why they attacked Russia to begin with. If America and Britain weren't fighting against Germany at the same time as Russia, there is some ambiguity as to who might have won.

Even in our isolationism we fought, though. And why? Because their regime was terrible. Churchill recognized that. Roosevelt recognized it.

That was a really philosophical war if you think about it. The atom bomb... the kamikazes.... really interesting one.

You won't see another one like it. That's why it's talked about so much.

Is whatabout-ism some kind of new word that is used to deflect accusations of hypocrisy now?

Explain to me, why is it so particularly bad to mistrust the official figures given for the holocaust, compared to every other atrocity?

Also, why is it better to burn random civilians alive compared to putting random civilians in camp and gassing them?

I find it strange that the holocaust is so elevated above every other genocide, yes. And I find it particularly strange that you can't mistrust numbers without being accused of heresy.