MARY? WHO NAMED YOU, AN IBERIAN WHOOOOOOORE WITH A STUTTER?

Probably wouldn't works, we can say all we want about his actions but all he wanted was a male heir for a stable succession.

STOP HE'S TOO POWERFUL BROS

Your grace.... theres no more wives....

hear hear, well said

>people don't know about patrolineage in the 16th centruy

To be fair, Henry did some pretty autistic shit

Some heads are gonna roll for this

Explain how that is autism?

XD Autism am I with “it” guys?

He did get a male heir, Edward VI, whose mother, wife #3 Jane Seymour, died in childbirth.

Wasn't he a cripple and always sick?

So he is the new Veeky Forums meme now?

IS THAT ANYWAY TO SPEAK TO YOU KING?

ILL HAVE YOUR HEAD ON A SPIKE

GODS I WAS STRONG THEN

Still outlived his dad, so he died knowing he left the throne to a son

nah he wasn't cripple and he was never that sickly, except for the illness (possibly influenza, small pox or tuberculosis) that killed him

WE AIN'T HAD NOTHING BUT MAGGOTY GIRLS FOR SIX STIKIN' WIVES

Has this meme gone to far?

...

He should've said 'blood'

Poor kid, he spends his whole childhood preparing to be a king, and probably would've been a good one. Then he drops dead a year before he could come to power. Probably died a virgin too.

He may have had sex with Jane Grey
Who knows what she did to get chosen heir over everyone else.

Was he big on the whole Protestant reformation or was that his council and regents?

He had his own face drawn on King Arthur's body

DIVORCE
YOUR KING DEMANDS IT

he was raised a protestant, he wanted huge reform

PEASENT BRING FORTH ANOTHER WIFE FORE I YEET THY IN THE TOWER

>mfw live barely a mile from his home

I have sandwiches in the palace gardens sometimes. There's a friendly robin there I like.

>Who knows what she did to get chosen heir over everyone else.
Because according to VIII’s succession set out in his will Edward, if he died prematurely, was to be followed by Mary Tudor who was a raging catholic and a dying and convinced protestant Edward and his protestant caretakers were desperate to stop this from happening so they tried to legalize a new line of succession. Ironically it would have disinherited Elizabeth I as well. Sadly mary was considered the legit heir even by protestants and she used this to her advantage only to fuck over protestants when she ascended the throne

Autist detected.

Why Jane though, he could have jumped to Elizabeth citing the annulment or one of his Scottish cousins, less appealing but still not Mary

over 9000 hours in paint

MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORE
WIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIVES

My memory is fuzzy but its for several reason. First elizabeth and edward didnt have a really good relationship. Elizabeths religious views were not well known cause she kept it ambiguous for her personal safety and Edward was comtemptuous of her for this. Elizabeth. I think also refused to step into the breach and take leadership of opposition to Mary, which as the jane grey rebellion showed was a smart political move because she would have been executed. i also think she had few political allies at the time as it was. Finally making elizabeth queen is just as legslly dubious as making Jane leader and jane i think was more openly protestant and willing to take on the role of leader/ puppet for the ringleaders of the rebellion.

You see, the trouble is that if there's any reason at all that the heir's legitimacy can be questioned, it will be.

And this will cause a civil war.

Henry VIII's dad seized power this way.

Richard III also seized power in a similar fashion.

England had been in a state of turmoil called the War of the Roses that the Tudors sought to end.

Henry VII used Star Chamber courts to arrest or impoverish any potential enemies, he also defeated rebellious nobles on the battlefield such as at the Battle of Stoke Field, and when his first son, Arthur, died he freaked out and wrapped Henry VIII in bubble wrap to make damn sure he'd have a successor.

Henry VIII inherited this mindset. He knew that his most important job was to ensure peace and stability in England by providing the nation with an unquestionable heir. This heir HAD to be male, or a new dynastic war would break out instantly.

Of course it didn't work out like that, but hindsight is 20/20 and that's how Henry felt during his life time.

I see, still seems an odd choice to choose a 13~ year old against a young woman, first cousin to the most powerful man in Europe and daughter of what I believe was Henry’s most popular wife

Well, there was sort of a civil war and a bunch of rebellions and unrest.

Also Jane Grey was his first cousin and tied by marriage to the Lord Protector john dudley duke of northumberland who was Edwards regent and a powerful influence over him personally and over the formstion of his protestant conscience. Also forgot to mention that according to the logic of disinheriting Mary Tudor as Edward it made sense to also re-disinherit elizabeth because thw two were born of wives henry had forsaken and so were both bastards (it should be said VIII swing back and forth according to politics and personal sentiment between having Mary and Elizabeth legally declared bastards then reinstating them to legitimate succession), especially to someone who had “true” legitmacy of being a male heir as Edward was.

>Well, there was sort of a civil war and a bunch of rebellions and unrest.

Which ones are you referring to? I didn't know about this now I'm curious.

Pilgrimage of grace under VIII, Wyatt rebellion under Mary Tudor and though minor the “jane grey” rebellion was a civil war led by Duke of Northumberland to put his proxy on the throne against Mary Tudor which was the precursor to wyatt rebellion. Henry VII also faced a lot of early rebellions trying to put pretenders on the throne claiming to be Edward V whom richard iii had secretly killed

Mainly religious things and discontent about Mary
And the usual executions, Mary killed Jane and imprisoned Elizabeth for a while, Elizabeth killed Mary Stuart
But things calmed down during Elizabeth’s reign

If Jane had had a bit more support than what she had there would have possibly been a fill out civil war between her and Mary.

Same user replier. On reflection i think your right and that is why Jane grey failed to win out sgainst Mary. Everyone saw Jane, and no doubt they were right to an extent, as a way for duke of northumberland to perpetuate his rule, a rule which had made him many enemies and people jealous of his power. Jane was seen as nothing more than his puppet and lacking the kind of independence and discretion that a true monarch posesses. Mary also did a better job of stressing her connection to viii and crucially secured backing from important powerbases in the countru

Oh Okay. The events between Henry VIII's reign and Elizabeth's are such a blur to me for some reason.

>I live in Blackheath
>actually lives in kidbrooke

Yeah its understandable its one of the most convoluted periods during the tudor period and full of twists turns and reversals of fortunes. Its also an extremely underrated period because it was precisely this period that the nature of englands religion took the shape that it did. Anglican retardation came about by the very fact that Edward vi dies young and a thorough protestant reformation takes place. Mary reverses the very stern protestant settlement and assures for centuries to come that 1) protestantism is stillborn in england and 2) and small but significant catholic population clings on to life in the kingdom and becomes a beacon for anglicans who want to model their church on catholicism than on protestant ideals. Finally Elizabeth comes to power believed by most to be protestant but in practice extremely ambivalent toward godly reformation and enforces a watered down religious settlement that is neither here nor there and pisses off a lot of protestants who want a full rationalization of the church according to international protestant lines instead of some mongrelized system that still maintains cathedrals, elaborate church music and an ecclesiastical hierarcical structure left over from the catholic church. This leads to the formation of puritan minority, which is checked by churchmen who come to celebrate elizabethan church as the best religion there is and eventually steer it toward catholicism ironically

Reformstion fails to take place*

I think the counselor closest to Edward had just married his daughter into the Grey family had something to do with it.

It's unclear who killed edward v.

I thought the pretenders were claiming to be Richard, the younger of the two princes

it make sense politically doesnt it?

you're right my bad. one pretended to be the younger son of edward IV and another the son of edward iv's brother, edward plantagenet.

>it make sense politically doesnt it?
Killing the princes? No, Richard III had already declared the illegitimate and safely locked them up in the tower, their disappearance cost him support and made his sister-in-law his enemy and she went off to marry her surviving daughter to Henry VII

>mfw meme thread turns into actually discussion about the War of the Roses

This is why I love Veeky Forums

people can escape from the tower though. it's exactly what perkin warbeck and edward plantagenet tried to do in 1499 before Henry VII had them executed because the threat of escape meant threat of an alternative to his kingship around which discontents can rally. iirc I've heard that a lot of Richard's letters heavily imply that he had them killed or had some third party have them killed so he could plausibly deny his involvement in the mess.

They were little kids though, and wasn’t the eldest really sickly?

Though, we all know now that those are all Tudor lies
youtu.be/nIciw2Rgz50

THE WHOOOORE AIN'T PREGNANT

pic related

...

>young henry viii looks like benedict cumberbatch

>you don't get to bring friends

10/10 would separate with the catholic church to

lmao looks like the villain from Pocahantas

What went wrong?

no son

inbred genetics

He had a son

Living the life without a thought for his health

The absolute state of Veeky Forums...

laughed audibly

Didn't know Mordred was a knight of the round