Why aren't you getting free steroids?

in about ten years we're going to hear about a suicide "epidemic" as a result of parents doing this shit.

>Doc, my body doesn't match what I perceive as my sexual identity. I will commit suicide unless I start to resemble it.

Literally no different.

HAHA WOW YES!
BIG BEN!
I AM TICKLED PINK!
xD

Trannies already kill themselves en masse though.

Interestingly enough, turning them into trannies makes them kill themselves less than when they stay in their original sex. It's far from optimal but it's the best we can do for them right now.

It's a bit out of the scope of this discussion, but the studies you are citing are massively flawed and others say the opposite. This is simply not something that can be said with any certainty.

I don't doubt it, it was secondhand info anyway. Poor trannies.

>mommy I'm a unicorn!
>sure, sweetheart

>mommy, I'm an astronaut!
>sure sweetheart

>mommy, I'm a robot!
>sure, sweetheart

>mommy, I'm a girl!
> Let's get those puberty blockers and hormones to permanently change your body structure and brain chemistry forever, and make you unable to ever have children. Hey, why not mutilate your genitals too while we're at it.

>kids are too young and stupid to consent to sex
>but they're apparently smart enough to agree to life changing hormonal procedures

Insane people

Tell me about it

I won't be able to get legal testosterone and isntead I get a criminal offense for being a MAN and wanting to become more MANLY by using chinese bathtub chemicals and these people suffering from mental illness get prescribed pharma grade test.

Doctors who assist in this shit are breaking the Hippocratic oath and should be jailed.

Senpai this is already a thing. Just go to a TRT specialist. They make money giving out test why would they turn you down? They even sponsor crossfit gyms lol

The main reason people are doing this is because we've tried the treatment you guys are implying (shut the fuck up and just act like your gender already) and it doesn't work at all. The kids would grow up to be depressed and eventually become suicidal.

By giving them hormones, they can stop killing themselves and be productive members of society. So rather then you neighbors kid killing themselves, your neighbors kid can go to college and be a doctor or something.

So would you rather they kill themselves or would you rather they live happy lives? That's really what it comes down to.

I mean I don't like it either but I would rather they live and fuck their shit up then be alive and miserable all the time. It's just a difference of values I guess. If I have a son and he tells me that he's really a girl and wants to get his dick cut off. A piece of me will die but I will grit my teeth and go along with it so that I do my duty as a father.

We can't always get what we want. This is part of growing up gentleman. That the world we were taught exists isn't actually really and that much of it is beyond our control.

Citation needed. You have no idea whether that is true or not.

Also what is the rate of people who have had early childhood treatment who have later remitted? Does that factor in to your decision to mutilate your children because they saw it on TV?

Can someone remind me why steroids are illegal anyway?

>By giving them hormones, they can stop killing themselves and be productive members of society.
But the suicide rates in those people are literally the highest in the population!
JESUS do you know anything?! It does not work!

The russians won too many golds

I wish we could look into reconstructive brain surgery but now being a tranny is an identity and not a mental illness any research towards it will be:

>LITERALLY HITLER

Maybe in america but in my country you will never get TRT unless you are wayyy below reference value.

>Either mutilate my children or have them grow up depressed and suicidal until they eventually kill themselves.

torontosun.com/2015/06/08/suicide-rate-much-higher-for-transgender-canadians-study

>-- There was a link between suicide and how far along a trans person was in changing their body to the desired state -- the closer to completion, the fewer attempted suicides.

>There is significant evidence to suggest that transgender identities have a biological origin, and there is already consensus among medical professionals that the best way to support transgender people is to affirm their gender identities. Despite conservatives’ attempts to portray transgender people as mentally ill, it has already been several years since “gender dysphoria” was declassified as a mental disorder.

thinkprogress.org/no-high-suicide-rates-do-not-demonstrate-that-transgender-people-are-mentally-ill-5074c09a5827

Mate, there's no getting out of this one I'm afraid.

Why don't we look into altering the brain to match the actual physical gender?

Where?

>One of the biggest studies on the experiences of transgender people was the 2011 National Transgender Discrimination Survey (NTDS). It found that in the U.S., 41 percent of transgender and gender non-conforming people had attempted suicide, compared to a national average of just 4.6 percent. When all of the data were analyzed, however, researchers found a number of factors that significantly influenced whether a person was more likely to attempt suicide: being a person of color, experiencing poverty, being unemployed, achieving less education, being out or more easily perceived as transgender, experiencing housing discrimination or especially homelessness, experiencing harassment or especially physical or sexual assault, being rejected by family, or facing discrimination in health care. In other words, the more forms of discrimination transgender people experienced, the more likely they were to attempt suicide.
>A brand new study from Canada confirms this effect. There, the suicide attempt rate for transgender people was similar to what other studies have found: about 18 times higher than the general population. But the study found that some factors greatly reduced the attempt rate. For example, when transgender people had affirming parents, the rate dropped by 57 percent. Access to legal documentation consistent with their gender identity dropped rates by 44 percent. Trans people who experienced low levels of anti-trans hate were 66 percent less likely to attempt suicide. And perhaps most importantly, the further along individuals were in their transitions—i.e. the closer they were to having a body and outward identity that matched their internal gender identity—the less likely they were to attempt suicide.

thinkprogress.org/no-high-suicide-rates-do-not-demonstrate-that-transgender-people-are-mentally-ill-5074c09a5827

You're running out of memes kid. Your arguments are based on debunked claims.

thefederalist.com/2017/02/27/threatening-violence-trans-activists-expel-un-pc-research-medical-conference/

Actual inquiry and research into these issues is not PC and is actively suppressed. You are citing thinkprogress for fucks sake, have you even read how these studies were conducted? This is how "consensus" of professionals "affirms" treatments that they profit from.

>would you rather they kill themselves or would you rather they live happy lives
Kill themselves

Those increased suicide rates are tied to discrimination. If they were treated better after transitioning, suicide rates would go down.

Seriously kid, our choices are either force millions of people to live unhappy lives as outcasts before they kill themselves or give them a chance to live happy and productive ones while admittedly fucking their shit up.

Ideally we would just tell them to knock it off but that clearly doesn't work so we have to try something else. Protestant ethics won't save these kids.

Why the fuck do you lads even care about what other people do?

I seriously don't understand why more availability and the driving down of the price of hormones for general consumers can be considered anything but good.

Nothing in this society is worth preserving anymore. Just let the fucking Muslims take it.

I had a feeling you would point out think which is why I think it's funny that you're citing the fucking federalist as a counter point. Literally pot calling the kettle black.

Except no, read my article and they give numerous links to scientific and medical studies debunking your arguments.

For instance, the Toronto Sun is linked in there: torontosun.com/2015/06/08/suicide-rate-much-higher-for-transgender-canadians-study

-- The support of parents mattered greatly even when a transgender person was well into adulthood.

-- The risk of suicidal thoughts dropped 44% among trans Ontarians who could get legal forms such as birth certificates or OHIP cards with their new gender.

-- Those who experienced low levels of trans-based hate were 66% less likely to consider suicide that those who endured high levels through things such as abuse.

-- There was a link between suicide and how far along a trans person was in changing their body to the desired state -- the closer to completion, the fewer attempted suicides.

>Those increased suicide rates are tied to discrimination.

Gonna need some proof on this. Does Dailykos have a science section now?

>millions of people
You're severely overestimating the population of trannies.

Not confirmed. John Hopkins will no longer carry out the surgery because it was found to not be worth it when the trans still killed themselves and had high depression rates after the surgery.

Would you rather that hypothetical kid live his whole life depressed and miserable until he kills himself?

You guys are lucky that you don't have to deal with this shit or have to cut your dick off to just feel like a normal human. Why not some sympathy for those that are less fortunate then you?

By your logic, if someone is born paralyzed or blind,should we just keep them like that instead of trying to help them?

>millions

>Doc, I'm a MtFtM. Gib pills.

>Literally posted a shit load of links for this lazy cunt

Are you even reading the thread asshole?

interesting, I hadn't heard

The hypothetical kid should not fucking be allowed to make such a drastic life changing decision at such an age.

Thank Christ I'm not a child now or I would be considered transexual for letting my older sister put make up on me.

We should fix his eyes
This is a brain malformation and we should be looking for a neurological solution instead of an elaborate pantomime to pander to the delusion

Whether that be drug induced neuroplasticity or neurosurgery remains to be seen

>millions

There is no way you can attribute a 41% suicide rate to discrimination.

>there is already consensus among medical professionals that the best way to support transgender people is to affirm their gender identities
John Hopkins won't carry out the surgery anymore because it wasn't worth it when they kept killing themselves.

nytimes.com/2016/07/01/health/transgender-population.html?_r=0

>Estimate of U.S. Transgender Population Doubles to 1.4 Million Adults

Worldwide, this would be millions of people.

You're citing studies in a field where criticism and inquiry is literally impossible. Actually read the Federalist article, you'll find it enlightening.

If the support of the parents is crucial for success, why are laws being supported that allow for these treatments without parental consent?

>In another case that could affect transgender people, a Minnesota mother is suing St. Louis County, two health clinics and the St. Louis County School District for denying her parental rights over her underage child.

>The case involves a now 17-year-old who was born male and wants to make the transition to female. The teen has been able to access transgender medical treatment, including hormone therapy, without parental consent.

mprnews.org/story/2016/11/16/minnesota-laws-affecting-transgender-people-under-fire

>suicide rates are tied to discrimination
>millions of people

You are fucking delusional or baiting.

Gender dysmorphia is a brain malformation, neurological solutions are what we are applying. We're giving people hormones so that they feel comfortable in their bodies and don't kill themselves.

lgbtqnation.com/2016/10/johns-hopkins-medicine-will-resume-transgender-surgeries-40-years/

Your info is outdated.

You would not have your dick chopped off since someone did that to you. However, if like these kids you were taking imitative to put make up on and dresses on and were cutting yourselves if you were forced to wear jeans, then we would need to do something fucking drastic before you hurt yourself.

I would rather this hypothetical child knows that they have a problem and learn to deal with it without being brainfucked into thinking they need to shorten their lives and ruin their bodies because drug shillers, plastic surgeons, shrinks, scumbags, and queer power brokers need new converts to keep their coffers full and their places on top of the totem poll secure and to fulfill their fetishes.

I would help them realize that they're not new or special or unique or some hopeless case that can never be fixed.
That they are a person who will live well and find some form of contentment and someone and try to steer them away from the assholes on the net.

Trans people on HRT get hormones to bring them to a normal, healthy level for their expressed gender. Empirical evidence shows this to be within acceptable margins of risk while causing them to live happier, more productive lives.

If your test levels are below normal, healthy levels, a competent medical professional will prescribe you the necessary treatments. However, going about healthy levels is known to be unsafe, which is why a doctor won't give steroids to you.

Quit bitchin. Eat big and lift heavy if you want to get swole.

>used to like wearing dresses as a kid
>if I were a kid now with "progressive" parents they would have kept encouraging me "not to be afraid to be who I am" until I start thinking I'm actually a tranny
>tfw I probably would've been pumped with life-changing drugs and shit before I was old enough to be trusted with walking down the street by myself
Thank God I am not growing up today or I'd probably be staring at my father's loaded gun having realised there is no going back from what I've done to my body

We allow plenty oif treatments that don't require parental consent. If your religion prohibits blood transfusions, we're not going to let the kid fucking die. We'll give them the fucking blood transfusion. Likewise, if this kid is going to be miserable and self harming, then we should be able to override the parents to protect the kids.

Dude there is literally no shame in admitting that maybe you saw the issue wrong. I felt the same way before I started seriously researching it. Frankly I would rather people fuck their shit up and we play along with their delusions so that they can be happy then force people to be miserable.

Should we ban the special olympics because they're disables? Fuck no, it makes people with less advantages then us feel special so it's worth it to accomodate them. It's inconvenient but we should do it for people who have gender dysmorphia too.

There is also a massive push against research using Pimozide to get rid of trannies. It does have some side effects for some people but it doesn't fucking cause you to become infertile and have a 41% suicide rate.

The case is reported of a gender dysphoric patient who responded successfully to pharmacotherapy with pimozide. An adult male patient with a borderline learning disability presented with cross-dressing and a strong wish to undergo a sex change. Supportive psychotherapy and pharmacotherapy with pimozide was tried. There was an excellent response to pimozide 2 mg daily, with a cessation of both cross-dressing and the wish for sex reassignment. When, after 1 year, the dose was reduced to 1 mg daily, there was a rapid return of the cross-dressing and the wish for sex reassignment. An increase in the dose again led to a remission which has been maintained since then. Pharmacotherapy with pimozide should be considered in cases of doubtful gender dysphoria.

Research paper: The successful treatment of a gender dysphoric patient with Pimozide. Available from: researchgate.net/publication/14365362_The_successful_treatment_of_a_gender_dysphoric_patient_with_Pimozide [accessed Apr 9, 2017].

What about surgically reconstructing the brain to be able to recognise reality?
On a voluntary basis ofc
Neurology is so interesting

I don't care what people want to do with their bodies or call themselves aslong as they don't wanna threaten me with the law if i dont wanna play along

>Dude there is literally no shame in admitting that maybe you saw the issue wrong
Look whos talking delusion fag.

>Should we ban the special olympics because they're disables?
Yes, if lots of normal people started to mutilate themselves to becomes disabled just to enter it.

This is bait. or ateast i hope it is

>Likewise, if this kid is going to be miserable and self harming, then we should be able to override the parents to protect the kids.

AGAIN, what percentage of these treatments end up in remittance? How many people regret this treatment later? How can you tell if someone will remit?

>If I have a son and he tells me that he's really a girl and wants to get his dick cut off. A piece of me will die but I will grit my teeth and go along with it so that I do my duty as a father.
>I will give complete agency to my young son over whether or not he should go through a life-changing hormonal procedure before he's old enough to consent to sex and drink responsibly

>Frankly I would rather people fuck their shit up and we play along with their delusions so that they can mutilate their bodies, ruin the families lives, be a leech on society, and then kill them selves instead of actually getting treatment for their mental illness
Sounds good lad. They should be chemically sterilized, along with the disabled.

>we should be able to override the parents to protect the kids
>the state/courts should decide how parents should raise their children based on a rather limited and often flawed body of evidence/research

>pumping a kid full of hormones for no medically justifiable reason
how is this shit even legal?

But we've fucking tried that! The kids keep killing themselves anyway. It's like telling a heroin addict to just stop using or like telling a schizophrenia to stop being so nuts. Reason and logic won't work on minds that can't handle them. We have to use this approach instead.

Holy shit dude, there is a world of difference between wearing dresses and these kids. You would have been safe. These are kids who are literally killing themselves because they can't wear dresses while you would have just gotten used to not wearing dresses.

These kids brain chemistry is all screwy. Gender dysmorphia is as real as ADD or Alzheimers. \

This is basically about compassion. We should just accept that these people have these problems and try to help them be happy instead of forcing them into a life of misery. Literally no other way around this.

The problem is SJW fags are literally mentally ill and put guys like you on the defensive, rather then taking offense, you should be the bigger man, recognize that these people have serious fucking problems that you were lucky to not have. Don't cave in but don't be dicks either.

>Toronto Sun is a peer-revived medical journal

Pushing the idea that they'll never be happy unless heavily medicated or acting out some fantasy outright ensures that they'll never be happy.

Cold hard reality and love from the people who care for them is something that they need. Not to be permanently disabled and in need of drugs, surgeries, and therapy for their considerably shortened lives or god forbid till they eventually kill themselves.

>Holy shit dude, there is a world of difference between wearing dresses and these kids. You would have been safe. These are kids who are literally killing themselves because they can't wear dresses while you would have just gotten used to not wearing dresses.
You missed the point of my post entirely. I meant that my parents would have mistook it for gender dysmorphia (out of a combination of wanting to be extra sensitive to it and also pride in having a tranny kid) and encouraged it until my young mind eventually became convinced too (you know how kids are). And since I would have been too young to reach a reasonable decision and/or realise that I don't actually have gender dysmorphia but I'm just an impressionable kid, I would have asked for hormone treatment

>By giving them hormones, they can stop killing themselves and be productive members of society.

are you serious lmao
they end up offing themselves post transition at roughly the same rates as pre transition
not to mention all the complications arising from the tansition

It's called progress dipshit.

>Reason and logic won't work on minds that can't handle them.

You are living proof. You are trying to tell people the State can override you as as a parent in castrating your children because YOU feel good about it.

Still haven't answered any question about the people who have this treatment and remit. How can you tell who will remit?

People who want to be another gender are mentally ill

Help is convincing them that this is true and not to take chemicals and fuck themselves up

its not natural, it can only be achieved with modern science. A man sucking cock is infinitely more normal, "trans people" are simply mentally ill and artificial hormones are not the cure

>But we've fucking tried that! The kids keep killing themselves anyway. It's like telling a heroin addict to just stop using or like telling a schizophrenia to stop being so nuts. Reason and logic won't work on minds that can't handle them. We have to use this approach instead.

Since when? Because as long as I can remember surgery and drugs has been pushed in the mainstream as the only cure.
Untold numbers of "brave" people who've undergone the surgeries or lives broken short lives as they all play pretend.
I've yet to see someone who is or was thought to be transgender and suffering from it but managing it and presented as their true sex talked about or treated with a hint of respect in media or academia.

Giving them drugs and surgeries doesn't slow it down. It exacerbrates the problem and almost always, without heavy drugs ends in suicide.

>there is a world of difference between wearing dresses and these kids

the difference is having progressive "parents" like pic related lmao

Yes

Not really a lot of scientific data on this desu.

I would listen to a doctor first obviously.

mutilating their bodies is debatable and them being a leech and ruining their families lives is because of discrimination.

In some cases yes, would you be ok with some kid dying because the parents thought they should prey to jeezus instead of taking him to a hospital? We have to go off scientifc consensus. If you think the science is wrong, you have to fucking prove it first, otherwise we're giving into homeopathy and dumb shit like healing crystals.

it links to a journal

again, we have tried cold hard reality and love. That shit doesn't work except for a small minrotiy of people.

Ok, so you have to get approved for hormone treatment and it can take years before anything actually happens while they run tests on you. It's not something that can just happen by accident. BY and large people who transition are happy afterwards, do you have evidence of people who accidently transitioned?

that's because of discrimination. If they transition sooner, there are fewer complications.

I'd just find an early transition FtM and befriend them. Get them to get more then what they need and buy or get the test from them.

If they are unwilling to share or get the feeling that they are being used just sling them some dick. They're horny as cats in heat and love men and cock.

Any FtM Veeky Forumsizens reading this thread? Do you think this is a good idea?

Because I'm a man and I can't change my my gender into man?

Hurr durr.

>Not really a lot of scientific data on this desu.
Do the kids you are "PROTECTING" know that they're experimental test cases for your fantasies?

>We have to go off scientifc consensus. If you think the science is wrong, you have to fucking prove it first
What is the scientific consensus on remittance? Do you have to prove it first?

these are edge cases of crazy people abusing their children. Not the majority at all.

look up dr money

>People who want to be another gender are mentally ill
agreed.

Taking chemicals is the cure! The only one!

Okay dingus. Let's some leftist wackos don't want to take their kids to the hospital because they think vaccines cause autism or that some wacko christfags refuse a blood transfusion and pray to jesus instead of taking their sick children to hospital.

you're saying we should just let those kids die because of their dumb fuck parents? That's evil.

To be frank, I don't think there's much data on remitting. However there is data that clearly show suicide rates are higher among transgender people and that they tend to be lower when these people have undergone surgery and society has accommodated their gender identity. It stands to reason that the only way to help these people, at least so far, is accepting their feelings and helping them transition.

>experiencing harassment or especially physical or sexual assault
Those are the only actual cases of discrimination of the ones you quoted. Stop throwing that word around for everything bad that happens to a person.

To be frank, I don't think there's much data on remitting. However there is data that clearly show suicide rates are higher among transgender people and that they tend to be lower when these people have undergone surgery and society has accommodated their gender identity. It stands to reason that the only way to help these people, at least so far, is accepting their feelings and helping them transition.

>BY and large people who transition are happy afterwards
John Hopkins won't do the surgery anymore because it didn't decrease suicide and depression.

lgbtqnation.com/2016/10/johns-hopkins-medicine-will-resume-transgender-surgeries-40-years/

I'm a woman who wants to be a man trapped in a mans body

>look up dr money.
You mean the guy who pushed extremely hard pro-tranny and formed a lot of the theories on gender vs sex. Which resulted in both David Reimer and his brother killing themselves.

Society is made up of free beings user
You can't force people to call you a different gender if they don't want to

>To be frank, I don't think there's much data on remitting.
But that's irrelevant to whether your children can get State funded drugs and surgeries without your consent right?

>... and that they tend to be lower when these people have undergone surgery
Except for all the ones that don't say this. The ones you claim phantom "discrimination" is to blame?

You're literally the SJW version of an anti-vaxxer. You have no evidence other than sacrificing children to the altar of your beliefs makes you feel good. You don't care what happens to people who remit, or how many, because helping people isn't why you support this garbage.

So leftists pushed a top tier psychologist McHugh and world greatest neurosurgeon Carson and best hospital Hopkins into caving in. Beautiful. This is like the overthrow of the DSM in the 90s.

I would rather they kill themselves or find purpose in life that doesn't have to do with their retard sexual urges that literally mean nothing anyway since they aren't trying to procreate.

Do you have data on what happens to people after they remit? Or are you too blind to see the truth? I have data that says people who transition are happier then people who do not. So I argue that people should be allowed to transition. I am ideologically consistent. You are a hateful shit.

No you can't, it's just a question of morals. I could make fun of someone for being disabled but I don't because that's a dick thing to do.

Tell me Veeky Forums, are you excited for your daughters to see an overweight pedophile's penis in the locker room? You know that she should be ashamed of herself for oppressing this brave women into feeling uncomfortable in her own skin.

Me too! But that clearly doesn't work. It's like telling gay people to stop being gay or telling autistic people to stop being autistic. It's literally impossible for them to change their own brain chemistry. It's just part of reality that we have to deal with.

Maybe you can transition with your daughter or son too? Wouldn't that be neat!

>Worldwide

You're acting as if this is even a thing outside of first and second world countries.

Have you even read the wikipedia page on this? Or does your information come from Tumblr? Seriously never heard of Thailand?