Were Prussianz Polish??

It's the Poles who lump Baltic and Slavic into Balto-Slavic hoping it brings them some claimant, even thought those Old Prussians were culturally different and hostile to Poles not to mention unintelligible languages.

That's just Old Prussia. About 60% people from Ostgebiete had Polish surnames or Germanised Polish surnames, in which case it would make it around 70%. But please, tell me about history of this region, I don't actually live here.

>It's the Poles who lump Baltic and Slavic into Balto-Slavic hoping it brings them some claimant
Poles ruled over Baltic states for a very long time. There is no need to do any kind of "lumping" here, because Slavs and Balts cluster with each other and speak languages that are close to each other.

They were also partially French because many French protestants were colonized in Brandenburg. Berlin was a Francophone city up until the Napoleonic wars.

Entire Western Germany got colonised by French. Dutch and Belgian colonists after Charlemagne slaughtered Saxons.

Germans are truly a mutt.

>Poles ruled over Baltic states for a very long time.

? And what does that have to do with anything? Nobility had fuck all to do with current populations.

> There is no need to do any kind of "lumping" here, because Slavs and Balts cluster with each other and speak languages that are close to each other.

What cluster are you speaking off? Lithuanians are genetically closest to Latvians then Estonians, and it's same for Latvians, who are closest to Lithuanians then Estonians, only then come Belarussians which isn't surprising since it had historical Lithuanian population living there's still pockets of them surviving, and historical tribes like Yotvingians living on their territory, also it's known that Prussians who escaped Teutonic Order were resettled in Grodno region. And languages share some features, but that doesn't make then any close it's known since the middle ages that Balts and Slavs didn't understand each other. Were culturally different, were off different religion when they both appeared in historical sources, and were hostile to each other. And Balto-Slavic split is estimated to have appeared around ~1000BC, That's over 3000 years now. Means as much as Italo-Celtic does. Julius Ceasar noted himself that Gauls(Celts) speak language that shows similarities to Latin, but that didn't stop him from genociding them and thinking they're trash that need to be subjugated.

So I'm asking again why are you lumping them two together when they're clearly different save for some inherited linguistic similarities from long time ago.

Balts and Slavs mixed for thousands of years, at one point they were the same branch of people.

Do you think that during PLC, Poles didn't mix with Liths and Latvians? Well, you're wrong then.

eupedia.com/forum/threads/32372-Surprising-genetic-similarity-between-Poles-and-Latvians

>Balts and Slavs mixed for thousands of years, at one point they were the same branch of people.

Mixing in recent era only happened among nobility common folk weren't allowed to emigrate freely and nobility isn't exactly representative of general population and genetic similarity is due to shared Corded Ware ancestry and other populations that lived pre IE migrations. That's before Baltic and Slavic or Balto-Slavic was a thing.

And here's FST distance between Poles and other Balto-Slavic populations.

0) Poles - 0,0000
1) Belarusians - 0,0000
2) Ukrainians - 0,0002
3) South Russians - 0,0004
4) Czechs - 0,0005
5) Slovaks - 0,0006
6) Central Russians - 0,0010
7) Lithuanians, Latvians - 0,0011
9) Croatians - 0,0013
10) Slovenes - 0,0015
11) Bosnians - 0,0017
12) Serbians - 0,0023
13) Bulgarians - 0,0030
14) Macedonians - 0,0031
15) Montenegrins - 0,0043
16) North Russians - 0,0087

So Balts are almost as similar to Poles as Croatians despite that Balts are your neighbors and Croatians live on the other side of Europe.

And on top of that Balts harbor increased HG ancestry and a bit more Corded ancestry and less farmer ancestry compared to other neighboring populations.

docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qYz-SsRykJEnlynp4MnQpjDETr4a0iZAZcAUJ8X2oT4/edit#gid=546161668

I guess those Lithuanian surnames in Poland and Polish surnames in Lithuania don't mean much then.

They don't. Majority of Latvians have German surnames, like Šmits(Smith) Freimanis(Freeman) Mejers(Mayer) etc. Does that meany they're Germans? Not really since they don't carry Germanic Y-DNA markers nor do they show genetic drift to Germans, it's simply because Church clergy and officials were German speaking when surnames appeared and they didn't bother to translate or give Latvian surnames. Same can be said for Lithuanians their "Polish surnames", save for some nobility who were actually Poles and moved in from Poland.

An actual retard, wow.

>H*guenots
>French

Yeah, you.

Nope, Poles always survive, Prussia didn't.

>Then why were Poland and Lithuania always shitholes?
Poland had periods were it was better place to live in than Germany.
Today it is much safer than Germany to live in.

Original Prussians were a pagan Baltic tribe. The were exterminated by German crusaders, who next broke their treaties with catholic Poland and set up own independent state in Prussia. Since then many German settlers arrived there. After Poland destroyed the Teutonic state in 1525, Polish king spared Germans, under condition that local Germans - who called themselves Prussian - will be a dutchy loyal to Polish crown. During the Oliwa peace treaty with Sweden in 1660 however, Prussian dutchy was granted independence by Poland. Soon dutchy turned itself into kingdom and united with Brandenburg, since both were ruled by Hohenzollern family. Rest of the story is well know.

Nice T*menashit theory you've got there. The Franks killed thousands of Saxons, not millions. So small was the demographic impact that the Saxons were still overpopulated and forced to settle eastwards.

>small was the demographic impact that the Saxons were still overpopulated and forced to settle
Not really

French constantly raided them so to be supplied with a huge ammount of Nordic slaves, they also sent colonists(franci homines) to the East so to secure the borders. Germany is after England our second most successful colony.

Gallo-Moroccan detected

>Gallo-Moroccan
Romano-Moorish(Black Roman)*

Not an argument btw

There's no point arguing with you because you don't accept reason, but nonetheless

>French constantly raided them so to be supplied with a huge ammount of Nordic slaves
Franks =/= French
raid =/= population massacre

>they also sent colonists(franci homines) to the East so to secure the borders
colonists =/= mass migration and population replacement

>Germany is after England our second most successful colony
Normans =/= French

Because Hitler was a literal retard

orleans larpnigger detected

What a fucking, bad thread.
Poles are the Slavic people living in Malopolski and Wielkopolski, every other Slavic tribes, who settled in what's now controlled by Poland were Silesians, Masovians or Pomoranians, Prussia was inhabited by Baltic tribes.

The territories up to the Oder-Neiße-line were temporarily subjugated by the Polish crown, but later made themselves Independent and were absorbed by the Germans, as there never was large-scale migration by Polish Slavs to those regions.
Please don't view this statement as we-wuzzing, but all Western Slavs are mostly descendants of East Germanic peoples, who were assimiliated by the Slavic tribes, who themselves were largely of Sarmartian origin.
According to popular German and French scientists who made some research, Poles are 60% of East Germanic heritage and 20% are 20% Slavic. The genes are similiar, due to both groups beeing Indogermanic.
The tribes weren't killed and didn't completely migrate, just like the Saxons didn't disappear after their cousins went to conquer the land of the Brythons.
If you were East German you were a legitimate descendant of all people who had lived on your soil(again, not meant to offend your feelings or hurt your butt), including the German and Dutch people who came during the middle-ages.

Many Poles in the Prussian provinces of West-Prussia and Posen identified as Prussian, except for a few Nationalists and guest-workers.

Saying that Prussia was Polish or that the Prussians were a pseudo-polonian ethnicity is utter bullshit.

I guess you're a newfag and did not know, but never again please make such shit threads, they will only cause /pol/-tier "discussions".

Even if you disagree the "Ostwanderung" was mostly peaceful, for example, the Old Prussian(Baltic) language survived until the 17th century.
youtube.com/watch?v=IEh_2YqCyu8

>G*rms
It appears your fear of the word "German" is big, please look for mental help.
>villains in a comic book
Self-discredition

>French settling in Germany
>Dutch and Belgian colonists slaughtered Saxons
>Germans are truely a mutt
Stupidity should hurt it's user.

>Franks =/= French
Franks = French*
Did you even read my picture ? Gallo-Roman colonists are mentioned too

>raid =/= population massacre
Raids were used to depopulate the land, then colonists were sent to repopulate it.

>colonists =/= mass migration and population replacement
What is the most popular baby names in England ? Mu-... Muha-... Muhamm-... oh yes Muhammad !

>Normans =/= French
Normans = French*

William's Charter of Liberties, 1066
William king greets William the bishop and Geoffrey the portreeve and all the citizens in London, French and English, in friendly fashion; and I inform you that it is my will that your laws and customs be preserved as they were in King Edward’s day, that every son be his father’s heir after his father’s death; and that I will not that any man do wrong to you. God yield you.

Franks = French*
Franks =/= French

>Raids were used to depopulate the land, then colonists were sent to repopulate it.
Raids didn't depopulate the land significantly, likewise colonists didn't "repopulate" the land significantly either.

>What is the most popular baby names in England ? Mu-... Muha-... Muhamm-... oh yes Muhammad !
Ok

>Normans = French*
Normans =/= French

Good post except
>Many Poles in the Prussian provinces of West-Prussia and Posen identified as Prussian
The people who lived there voted for a polish minority party, of course they identified as fucking Poles.

Sho sho, English thrall

Guillaume le Conquérant's Charter of Liberties
>Guillaume king greets William the bishop and Geoffrey the portreeve and all the citizens in London, FRENCH and English,

Henri Beauclerc's Chater of Liberties,
>Henri, king of the English, to Bishop Samson and Urso de Abetot and all his barons and faithful, both FRENCH and English, of Worcestershire, [copies were sent to all the shires] greeting.

>all Western Slavs are mostly descendants of East Germanic peoples, who were assimiliated by the Slavic tribes, who themselves were largely of Sarmartian origin.
According to popular German and French scientists who made some research, Poles are 60% of East Germanic heritage and 20% are 20% Slavic

Holy shit kys

>East Germanic peoples, who were assimiliated by the Slavic tribes, who themselves were largely of Sarmartian origin.

There's literally no proof other than your fantasies. Sarmatians were largely carrying R1a-Z93 or R1a-Z94 which is pretty much absent in Eastern Europe and we don't really have Eastern Germanic samples to know what their genetic profile looked like. The only few Wielbark samples of supposed Goths that we have cluster near Scandinavians.

(Kowalenko samples, shoretened to Kow in this PCA).

Well yes, the problem is that most of the Poles were Guest-workers and Nationalists, I should have stated that some of the aristocracy identified as Prussian/German, even though beeing ethnically Polish, thanks for correcting me.
There is an error, yes, I meant to say 60% East Germanic and 20% West Slavic, the "20% are" were a typo.
Otherwise you are wrong and have no right to feel triggered.
I won't commit suicide yet, as I have a lot of things to do and I lack the motivation to do so. I appreciate your altruistic advice though, some people really should die.
Try harder next time.

>all Western Slavs are mostly descendants of East Germanic peoples,

Holy shit.

I won't argue with you about haplogroups, as that would be autistic, but you should be aware of the fact that, migration with the consequence of assimilation of the invaded/passive Group, mostly happened with invading/active groups of a few hundred-thousand people, the East Germans(Let's not talk about how well the English language differenciates between Germanic and German People).

It's hard to make a difference between Slavs and Sarmartians of the 5th-7th century, but especially Western Slavs/Poles have a lot of their genes from the latter.

>my fantasies

I am not participating in the Gothic-larping of Veeky Forums, the Lugii,Burgundians,Rugii,Langobardi,Vandal and Venetii tribes (partially) stood home, they lived there and founded some cities, they inhabited everything up until the Vistula-River, if you believe Tacitus,

>we don't really have East Germanic samples
I think the Wielbark samples are not accurate as it is debatable if the Goths really came from Scandinavia or not.

It's Germania Slavia, believe me or not, the patriarchal side of genes may be Slavic but intermarrying with Eastern Germanic people has happened, they didn't just flee and plunder Rome when the Hunns came, as the Crimean Goths show.

It literaly was a PLC fief m8

They were pretty much germanized Slavs, especially in Pommerania. Look at the surnames (Lettow, Lewinski, Marwitz, Barnekow, etc).

Prussians were mostly germanized or mixed baltic old prussians, poles and other western slavs like silesians, pomeranians etc.
If you think about it, yes, prussians were mostly germanized poles, unless you think lechite western slavs themselves were originally germans...
Kind of ironic if you think about it, germans consider slavs inferior subhumans, but it took half-slavic/baltic prussians to unify germany and give it a unified identity...
Germanic autism at it's finest

>Franks =/= French
True

Franke = French
Frenkisch = French
Frencisc = French

No, this is what happens when people learn from Wikipedia. Base facts presented without context are worse for understanding than ignorance.
Plague killed about 15% of 'Prussians' between 1640 and 1715, Swedes doing off the rest. Disproportionately represented is the poor and rural sects: Pomeranian slavs and ""Poles"". These were replaced with Warthean Poles, Swabians and Salzburger Protestants by the hundreds of thousands. By the time of Friedrich II, "Prussia" was 90% German and by Friedrich Wilhelm III, 70% by way of the Polish Partition.
It was literally never called Prussia and majority Slavic at the same time. Shit, it was called Brandenburg and slavic for like 40 years max.

WE WUZ the best. Majority of Prussian country was populated by West Slavs and in the north by Balts.

But the Germans almost unified under a liberal government in 1848 though.
It was the Prussians who derailed that effort because they wanted a united Germany under their own terms.

>almost unified
So they didn't unify.

And who's to blame for that one

Liberals and their eternal incompetence. And it wasn't just Prussia who was against unification under liberal leadership, other German princedoms and duchies wanted no part of some shitty leftist republic either.

Oh I'm talking to a /pol/beard.
>Liberals and their eternal incompetence
I thought it was the Prussians killing all of them.
>Shitty leftist republic
You do know that liberalism in the 19th century is completely different to what liberals call themselves in muttland, circa. 2018?

If you genuinely think absolute rule by a class of inbreds is the more efficient system of government, you're doing a great job with the contrarian shtick, my dude.
Stay edgy

On a final note I forgot to mention that the liberals in 1849 wanted a constitutional monarchy.
Thinking that they wanted a republic shows you know nothing about the subject matter and are just shitting buzzwords our your ass

Yeah

>Well yes, the problem is that most of the Poles were Guest-workers and Nationalists, I should have stated that some of the aristocracy identified as Prussian/German, even though beeing ethnically Polish, thanks for correcting me.
Anecdote: in 16 century there was one noble who called himself prussian, spoke only polish language and was mostly known for his hate against germans

Kind of.

This (Ducal) Prussia was created by Poland in 1525.

>The Prussian Homage (by Jan Matejko, 1882, National Museum, Kraków): Albert receives eastern Prussia as a fief from King Sigismund I of Poland in 1525.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Prussia

I'm not American. The original liberals were leftists and the original leftists were liberals, sitting in the left wing of the assembly in France.
It's commies who are the revisionists when they try to usurp the word "leftist" to mean just commies and socialists.